Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

[Nubs70]

Oh, I never said that crowds aren't lower, just not as low as some are saying. Since TAs are not reporting mass cancellations, it seems that the parks being less crowded might be more due to locals staying away, or more bought the florida silver pass with all the blackout dates, so they can't go anyway. Hard to tell.

Or has there been a significant drop in single day ticket sales?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

. Although, ya know you can Google just about anything and twist it to fit your needs on almost any subject

Evidently so.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Or has there been a significant drop in single day ticket sales?

Could very well be part of it as well.

 

[21stamps]

On a serious note-

3rd Attempt at this question-

Does anyone know if HS attendance is up or down?

 

[kbmum]

I think the numbers are way overblown. I do find it weird that one poster that was there recently said the crowds were a lot lower, while another poster there at the same time said the crowds, while lighter, were still heavy.

I was in Disney June 29-July 8. For perspective, I've made 26 trips there over the past 40 years, most in July or August, and the vast majority during the week of July 4. This past trip seemed to be just as crowded as I've ever seen it during this time of year. I've been shocked by the reports that people thought it wasn't crowded. My husband and parents also thought the same as me. I wish we would have had shorter wait times and fewer issues navigating through the throngs of people!

 

[ford91exploder]

On a serious note-

3rd Attempt at this question-

Does anyone know if HS attendance is up or down?

Person to ask is @lentesta If anyone outside of Disney corporate he would be the one with the most reliable data, We used to have a Ticketing CM on here but apparently Disney made them go silent.

 

[lentesta]

Person to ask is @lentesta If anyone outside of Disney corporate he would be the one with the most reliable data, We used to have a Ticketing CM on here but apparently Disney made them go silent.

I would have difficulty believing attendance at DHS is up.

It's a bit difficult to use wait times as an estimate for attendance because we don't know how much staff or capacity was cut. If anyone can ballpark that, we can do the math.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I was actually looking for someone (such as a TA, etc) telling us that this is the case, and telling us why a client cancelled a vacation (if that's the case) rather than speculating. Or even people posting that they didn't go this year because they felt it was not affordable. Or perhaps they're just bored with WDW, and would rather go other places for a while. Without the usual debate about whether they are right or wrong to feel that way.

I suspect it is less likely that someone who uses a TA to book a vacation will cancel vs. locals simply opting not to go. The former already have something invested, whereas the locals can presumably more easily reschedule or just decide not to go when things may be "dicey."

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Our economy did hit a crisis, that no one was prepared for, 10 years ago. Fl tourism will be ok, I think at the end of the year it will all balance out. May be down a little, but not catastrophically.


So last year I was there over labor day and the following week. It was more crowded than I expected. Everyone I met while there said the same thing. Then I read online one person's account of how "no one was at the parks during that week and they felt like the had the place to themselves." They also posted photos of an empty looking fantasyland. About 20 people quickly chimed in with their own photos of crowds and experience during that week. Conclusion- I think time of day, before or after rain, etc has a lot to do with it. I also think that everyone has a different "perception" (word of the week )

I agree - I was there around the same time and expected it to be less crowded. I remember one night at MK was actually really bad (busy, hard to get out after closing.)

Maybe if somebody else had gone to AK in the morning and back to their hotel in the afternoon that same day, they would have thought it was "below normal."

Who knows.

 

[Kylo Ken]

I just got back from a few days up at WDW. The crowds were slightly below average for the second week in July. I went around the same time last year and the crowds were noticeably larger. The tour groups are there. The overseas travelers are there. Like I said, the attendance did seem slightly down, especially at Studios (check out the pics from one of my previous posts), but MK and Epcot were exactly what I expected.

Again, I don't quite understand this thread. Are people upset because crowds are down? Happy? Personally I enjoy there being less people. You can throw numbers out there blah blah blah. I mean come on, statistics can be used to prove anything, 40% of people know that haha. What's the point? People that are trying to plan a trip based on crowds should just plan on there being crowds. Period.

 

[jakeman]

Person to ask is @lentestaWe used to have a Ticketing CM on here but apparently Disney made them go silent.

How'd they do that? Kidnap their family? Dangle them over a tank of sharks?

Maybe Disney did put pressure on them to stop posting. Maybe they just decided to quit posting on their own. Maybe they got tired of having to sift through garbage post filled with false information by Google jockeys who claim to be experts in everything from aircraft restoration to llama husbandry.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I just got back from a few days up at WDW. The crowds were slightly below average for the second week in July. I went around the same time last year and the crowds were noticeably larger. The tour groups are there. The overseas travelers are there. Like I said, the attendance did seem slightly down, especially at Studios (check out the pics from one of my previous posts), but MK and Epcot were exactly what I expected.

Again, I don't quite understand this thread. Are people upset because crowds are down? Happy? Personally I enjoy there being less people. You can throw numbers out there blah blah blah. I mean come on, statistics can be used to prove anything, 40% of people know that haha. What's the point? People that are trying to plan a trip based on crowds should just plan on there being crowds. Period.

I think you are seeing the acknowledgement of two things at once: 1) happy to find it less crowded than expected, and 2) concerned about what that means for the company overall and for our experiences in the near future (reduced cast member hours, reduced ride hours, etc.)

So we do the amateur analysis thing to try to figure out if Disney expected this to some degree (but may have gone overboard?) or if they were blindsided by the drop in numbers. It sounds like some insiders are indicating the latter.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

After reading all these comments I do have another theory: now assuming that the people reporting that the crowds seem down right now are correct then could it be that summertime is no longer the "popular" season? With the summers getting more and more hotter as the years go by and people complaining about the long waits and stuff because most people go during summer--when they can get off work--you put those two together and you have big crowds in hot weather. Some people were already saying the past few years that they had had it and were now going at some other time of the year in hopes of lesser crowds/cooler weather because they just couldn't stomach the long waits in the grueling heat anymore. Now with people stating that they went in September or the spring and they're reporting that the crowds were bad when they were expecting less crowds--which was the reasoning why they went at that time instead of the usual (summertime)--could it be that summer is beginning to be the less popular season to go now? And that any other "slow" time--which is probably no longer--is the new popular time to go?

Parents don't bat an eye with taking their children out of school for a vacation. That was taboo when I was growing up. With schools starting up in August, September isn't a slow season anymore.

 

[Ralphlaw]

A couple questions/points:

1. Do the Brazilian groups really shoot up the attendance significantly? I know they're loud and obnoxious to the point of exaggerating their footprint, but do they even account for 1% of daily attendance in the summer?

2. I agree that Disney has worked hard to even out the crowds. Variable ticket pricing at different times of the year and the lack of "free dining" and other incentives may finally be diminishing the insanely crowded times of the year and shifting them to the less popular times.

3. I think the easy info all over the net and tripadvisor and everywhere else finally educated the public to go at less crowded times of the year. Weather and crowds are the biggest impediment to a great vacation, and people other than the WDW pros may now be wising up to it. Personally, I hate heat and I am hating crowds more and more as I get older. A 95 degree humid day in a crowded park is darn close to hell for me.

4. There is an insidious and violent under-current in America these days, and Orlando had two horrible events in June. I can't imagine any places with tragedies, including Dallas right now, doing well tourism-wise. People are wary, and Orlando and the Grand Floridian are not on the tops of anyone "must see" list right now. Couple that with higher prices and lower "free dining" type of incentives, and it's not a good picture. Yet, it will probably turn around soon.

5. The big new thing is the Frozen attraction in Norway, and many people, even little girls, are getting tired and Frozened out of the whole thing. Personally, I may wait until Avatarland and Star Wars land finally open up before coming down from Wisconsin again.

6. It's hard to wow people these days. Any brainstorm list of great new things would probably look silly in just 3 or 4 years. "Been there done that" isn't just a catchphrase, it defines today's vacation industry. How do you wow people in such times? And how do you keep them from staring at their phones for 5 minutes to actually engage in a real live attraction, event or activity? I just drove my family through the Alps, and I had to keep telling them to put down their gizmos and look at the amazing scenery. And my kids aren't even on Facebook.

 

[21stamps]

A couple questions/points:

1. Do the Brazilian groups really shoot up the attendance significantly? I know they're loud and obnoxious to the point of exaggerating their footprint, but do they even account for 1% of daily attendance in the summer?

2. I agree that Disney has worked hard to even out the crowds. Variable ticket pricing at different times of the year and the lack of "free dining" and other incentives may finally be diminishing the insanely crowded times of the year and shifting them to the less popular times.

3. I think the easy info all over the net and tripadvisor and everywhere else finally educated the public to go at less crowded times of the year. Weather and crowds are the biggest impediment to a great vacation, and people other than the WDW pros may now be wising up to it. Personally, I hate heat and I am hating crowds more and more as I get older. A 95 degree humid day in a crowded park is darn close to hell for me.

4. There is an insidious and violent under-current in America these days, and Orlando had two horrible events in June. I can't imagine any places with tragedies, including Dallas right now, doing well tourism-wise. People are wary, and Orlando and the Grand Floridian are not on the tops of anyone "must see" list right now. Couple that with higher prices and lower "free dining" type of incentives, and it's not a good picture. Yet, it will probably turn around soon.

5. The big new thing is the Frozen attraction in Norway, and many people, even little girls, are getting tired and Frozened out of the whole thing. Personally, I may wait until Avatarland and Star Wars land finally open up before coming down from Wisconsin again.

6. It's hard to wow people these days. Any brainstorm list of great new things would probably look silly in just 3 or 4 years. "Been there done that" isn't just a catchphrase, it defines today's vacation industry. How do you wow people in such times? And how do you keep them from staring at their phones for 5 minutes to actually engage in a real live attraction, event or activity? I just drove my family through the Alps, and I had to keep telling them to put down their gizmos and look at the amazing scenery. And my kids aren't even on Facebook.

I'm sure tourism will be a little down from the Brazil segment..economy and Olympic Games as the main factors. Brazillians will still travel though, so will other central and South Americans as well as Europeans.

During our own recession- many Americans still traveled.

That's where the perception come in to play so strongly. People are saying the stores at Disney Springs will fail because tourists don't have extra money to buy clothes. Look at most tourist areas- people love to shop while on vacation. Look at Key West, Fl - it's main street is entirely shops/bars/restaurants. Look at Miami, Palm Beach, Ft Lauderdale- they're full of shopping near the tourist areas- as most places in Florida hot spots are. I think people have the perception that most international travelers fly into MCO- use ME- stay on property- ME back to MCO and go back home. Of course some do this- but there are millions of international travelers who come to Florida and hit some or all of the places I just mentioned. Those people can still "afford" to come to the USA, and they will still buy a ticket to Disney World.

 

[Marlins1]

I just got back from a few days up at WDW. The crowds were slightly below average for the second week in July. I went around the same time last year and the crowds were noticeably larger. The tour groups are there. The overseas travelers are there. Like I said, the attendance did seem slightly down, especially at Studios (check out the pics from one of my previous posts), but MK and Epcot were exactly what I expected.

Again, I don't quite understand this thread. Are people upset because crowds are down? Happy? Personally I enjoy there being less people. You can throw numbers out there blah blah blah. I mean come on, statistics can be used to prove anything, 40% of people know that haha. What's the point? People that are trying to plan a trip based on crowds should just plan on there being crowds. Period.

I'm sure everyone likes smaller crowds but I think we fear that short sighted management will see it as a reason to cut operating expenses and capital project budgets

 

[Kylo Ken]

I'm sure everyone likes smaller crowds but I think we fear that short sighted management will see it as a reason to cut operating expenses and capital project budgets

Ok I buy that. I didn't think of it that way lol sometimes I'm a bit slow. I would love to view Disney's financials but quite frankly, I'm not going to worry about it. They've already projected their income and revenue so I'm sure they're taking all of this into account.

 

[Kylo Ken]

I think you are seeing the acknowledgement of two things at once: 1) happy to find it less crowded than expected, and 2) concerned about what that means for the company overall and for our experiences in the near future (reduced cast member hours, reduced ride hours, etc.)

So we do the amateur analysis thing to try to figure out if Disney expected this to some degree (but may have gone overboard?) or if they were blindsided by the drop in numbers. It sounds like some insiders are indicating the latter.

You bring up some excellent points. I enjoy reading people playing the role of armchair financial analysts. But really as fans what could we do? Even if Disney forecasts huge revenues, the cut still cut expenses. I just tell myself, enjoy the parks and let the behind the scenes stuff work itself out

 

[TikiTorch]

Disney is leading them on. There isn't hardly anything new that has to do with SW but they are advertising it like there is a bunch of SW stuff.

I agree, there are no major new attractions (for now) other than the night spectacular, but what is there is enough to keep fans happy. For now. Plenty of people wish Disney would hurry up and build SW land already, but that doesn't mean those people are leaving HS disappointed at the end of the day.

 

[flyerjab]

Here are some anecdotal photos from the MK today.

As far as we were concerned the crowds were heavy. Not to the point where we had to leave, but it was definitely full. Going towards Tomorrowland, I noted that the Speedway standby was 40 minutes and SM was at 120 minutes. There were lines like this everywhere.

Oh yes, these were also everywhere too:

Apparently Brazil has had enough of our joyous posts regarding the lack of tour groups. There was this strange new hazing ritual going on though. I saw @George handing out vintage EPCOT tees to them in Main Street. And then as they entered the hub, @sshindel pelted them with copies of his EPCOT Manifesto and shouted highbrow, elitist insults at them - "Nice Horizons T-shirt you girl!" I recollected this moment fondly later in the day as I sipped Freestyle coke at the new DVC Lounge in the Imagination Pavilion.

In fact, it was so crowded that park vermin could not fit on the pavement and were forced into the snack stands.

Cast members tried to inquire which DDP allowed him access to free snacks, but they were all silently rebuffed as he plowed his face into a bag of Rold Gold, deftly ignoring them.

All goofing aside though, it was crowded and hot in the MK today. And tour groups were out in full force.