Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

[Dead2009]

April 2, 2007 Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor
February 22, 2012 Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom
June 15, 2012 Casey Jr. Splash 'N' Soak Station
December 6, 2012 Under the Sea ~ Journey of the Little Mermaid
December 6, 2012 Enchanted Tales with Belle
March 9, 2014 Disney Festival of Fantasy Parade
May 28, 2014 Seven Dwarfs Mine Train

November 27, 2006 The Seas with Nemo & Friends
April 2, 2007 Gran Fiesta Tour Starring The Three Caballeros
October 14, 2009 Sum of All Thrills (in Innoventions East)
June 23, 2012 Agent P's World Showcase Adventure
December 6, 2012 New Test Track
June 17, 2016 New Soarin'
June 21, 2016 Frozen Ever After

October 9, 2007 Jedi Training: Trials of the Temple
May 31, 2008 Toy Story Midway Mania!
March 27, 2011 Disney Junior - Live on Stage!
July 4, 2014 Star Wars: Path of the Jedi
July 5, 2014 For the First Time In Forever: A Frozen Sing-Along Celebration
December 1, 2015 Star Wars Launch Bay
June 17, 2016 Star Wars: A Galactic Spectacular

April 7, 2006 Expedition Everest - Legend of the Forbidden Mountain
January 24, 2007 Finding Nemo - The Musical
May 27, 2016 Sunset Safari
May 27, 2016 Harambe Wildlife Parti
May 27, 2016 Discovery Island Carnivale
May 27, 2016 Harambe Village Acrobats
May 28, 2016 The Jungle Book: Alive with Magic


Not to mention all the millions of dollars being invested in new attractions currently under construction.

Trolls hate facts. Never feed them.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

April 2, 2007 Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor
February 22, 2012 Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom
June 15, 2012 Casey Jr. Splash 'N' Soak Station
December 6, 2012 Under the Sea ~ Journey of the Little Mermaid
December 6, 2012 Enchanted Tales with Belle
March 9, 2014 Disney Festival of Fantasy Parade
May 28, 2014 Seven Dwarfs Mine Train

November 27, 2006 The Seas with Nemo & Friends
April 2, 2007 Gran Fiesta Tour Starring The Three Caballeros
October 14, 2009 Sum of All Thrills (in Innoventions East)
June 23, 2012 Agent P's World Showcase Adventure
December 6, 2012 New Test Track
June 17, 2016 New Soarin'
June 21, 2016 Frozen Ever After

October 9, 2007 Jedi Training: Trials of the Temple
May 31, 2008 Toy Story Midway Mania!
March 27, 2011 Disney Junior - Live on Stage!
July 4, 2014 Star Wars: Path of the Jedi
July 5, 2014 For the First Time In Forever: A Frozen Sing-Along Celebration
December 1, 2015 Star Wars Launch Bay
June 17, 2016 Star Wars: A Galactic Spectacular

April 7, 2006 Expedition Everest - Legend of the Forbidden Mountain
January 24, 2007 Finding Nemo - The Musical
May 27, 2016 Sunset Safari
May 27, 2016 Harambe Wildlife Parti
May 27, 2016 Discovery Island Carnivale
May 27, 2016 Harambe Village Acrobats
May 28, 2016 The Jungle Book: Alive with Magic


Not to mention all the millions of dollars being invested in new attractions currently under construction.

What a miserable list. Thanks for proving our point. 3 new kiddie rides across 4 parks over a decade. Absolutely embarrassing.

 

[tirian]

What a miserable list. Thanks for proving our point. 3 new kiddie rides across 4 parks over a decade. Absolutely embarrassing.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Haybritt]

Just came back from Disney, and I thought the crowds were very manageable for June. I think there are many factors influencing this. I work in the nonprofit world, and i can tell you that even in that environment we can tell people are holding onto their money right now. Not everyone takes multiple Disney trips like a lot of us on this blog. So perhaps also some are planning and holding off their trips until the Avatar, Star Wars, and Pixar areas are open.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

What a miserable list. Thanks for proving our point. 3 new kiddie rides across 4 parks over a decade. Absolutely embarrassing.

Not one of which (arguably Everest I guess) that even comes close to SpiderMan, which opened in 1999.

 

[Marlins1]

What a miserable list. Thanks for proving our point. 3 new kiddie rides across 4 parks over a decade. Absolutely embarrassing.

Terrible WDW decade for sure but I think the 2016 list is a big improvement and expect even better over the next five years. Hopefully even if there is a temporary decline in tourism they will understand that they have to move forward at WDW to keep the place relevant to more than families with small children. We were at Sea World on Thursday and it was shockingly dead for a park with an awesome new coaster. It is a bit worrisome for a parks fan like me.

 

[peter11435]

What a miserable list. Thanks for proving our point. 3 new kiddie rides across 4 parks over a decade. Absolutely embarrassing.

It's not all kiddie rides. Unless you consider expedition Everest and toy story mania to be kiddie rides. Regardless just because you don't like what they've added and invested in doesn't mean they haven't added or invested in anything.

 

[Marlins1]

It's not all kiddie rides. Unless you consider expedition Everest and toy story mania to be kiddie rides. Regardless just because you don't like what they've added and invested in doesn't mean they haven't added or invested in anything.

I think EE comes in just before the lost decade. TSMM was certainly one nice addition during the period and I think SDMT and BOG were too. Just not enough for the 10 years that ended 2015. I do think 2016 is the turning point - hope the news does not make them change their mind.

 

[Sonconato]

I agree that "recent events" may be having an effect right now but I do think that this was Disney's plan from the get-go and it's working now. The plan was to purposefully get the AP's to think everything was too expensive, they get mad and then decide to cancel and then when enough AP's are not being bought that's when Disney sweeps in and says they now have a GOOD REASON TO CANCEL THE ANNUAL PASSHOLDER PROGRAM BECAUSE OF LOW SALES. Then the crowds will possibly be at a more manageable level because let's face it: the AP program was a MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM. Too many of them caused the long waits in line and the "not being able to get a reservation at a restaurant"--remember that fee for not showing up? That was because of THEM doing that. The program should have never been introduced and that's all there is to it. Disney created a monster and probably just started realizing it. They unfortunately knew though that the "TOURISTS" were going to have to suffer in this debacle but in the long run that it might be worth it in the end. You only have to read about how some AP's have NOT RENEWED THEIR PASSES THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THE PRICE HIKE.

So yeah let's say they cancel the program: then that means tickets would go down to a more manageable level and everything might be back to a more glorious time--I'm thinking from when the park opened till sometime in the 90's. See where I'm going with this?

It never made sense to me how they could jack up prices the way they did, especially with the success of the Pixar, Marvel and now The Force Awakens films. So I do believe that this was all a scheme to get rid of the Annual Passholder program eventually and then things will pick up and get back to better times. The AP's (majority of them) started treating the place like it was their own little backyard adventure with NO RESPECT FOR THE RESORT ITSELF OR THE TOURISTS THAT "PAID" MAJORLY FOR A "VACATION." Cast members know this stuff--I've read their complaints on the 'net about how they can tell a tourist from an AP holder. The entitlement attitude is off the chart. So this may have very well been part of the plan to get rid of the "packed crowds." Either that or does Disney want to go out of business? I'm betting on the former.

Now also you have this to think about? Just what if the Brazilian tour groups aren't ALLOWED IN THIS YEAR? Remember--Zika virus?

Just my two cents.

I have to agree with what @LuvtheGoof said. We've been AP holders every year we've lived in Florida (14 years now) and we were the annual vacationers when we lived elsewhere as well. Your statements about CMs complaints about AP holders isn't totally correct. We have made many friendships with CMs from all of the world that work or have worked there in the past. We've even had a CM that was on the College Program find a way to contact us years later, even when she didn't know our names but we had a mutual acquaintance, because she didn't get to say goodbye. No doubt, you have read complaints about AP holders by CMs but you certainly cannot put "ALL APers" in the same basket.

You also mentioned that if they cancelled the program, it would get back to its glorious time from the time it opened until sometime in the 90's. Since you clearly don't know, the Annual Pass Program was introduce in 1982 when Epcot opened and it has been going strong since. The reality is, the APer's were the reason WDW survived the early 90's when times were really bad. If you want to sink a ship that can carry you through rough times, cancel the AP program. We were APers in the early 90's and we saw it firsthand, we even thought WDW was close to shutting their doors.

 

[mimitchi33]

I wish I could be there at this time! It would be very easy to get on everything that's not Frozen. Sounds like fun!

 

[ToTBellHop]

It's not all kiddie rides. Unless you consider expedition Everest and toy story mania to be kiddie rides. Regardless just because you don't like what they've added and invested in doesn't mean they haven't added or invested in anything.

Shall I draw up a 1990-2000 list?

 

[CJR]

Shall I draw up a 1990-2000 list?

And a list that shows the amount added vs the rise in admission costs.

For the amount of money they raised prices, employees could be making nearly $20 an hour. Each park could have been fully built out, with a fifth on the way. Instead the money gained from theme park admissions has not been reinvested back in. Who got it then? Hmm, I think we know the answer, but I'm not going to say it.

 

[DisneyPrincess5]

Maybe some families have decided not to return during the summer because it's too miserably hot and crowded for them? And summer car travel or air travel is too much of a rigmarole or too expensive? And they've found other times of the year to go that are fun and comfortable with equal or better deals? Maybe they've said "Hey fam, Disneys kinda pricey and crowded and hot so let's pick another location"?

We're in that boat. WDW is off limits for us from June-Middle of October.

 

[DisneyCane]

I agree that "recent events" may be having an effect right now but I do think that this was Disney's plan from the get-go and it's working now. The plan was to purposefully get the AP's to think everything was too expensive, they get mad and then decide to cancel and then when enough AP's are not being bought that's when Disney sweeps in and says they now have a GOOD REASON TO CANCEL THE ANNUAL PASSHOLDER PROGRAM BECAUSE OF LOW SALES. Then the crowds will possibly be at a more manageable level because let's face it: the AP program was a MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM. Too many of them caused the long waits in line and the "not being able to get a reservation at a restaurant"--remember that fee for not showing up? That was because of THEM doing that. The program should have never been introduced and that's all there is to it. Disney created a monster and probably just started realizing it. They unfortunately knew though that the "TOURISTS" were going to have to suffer in this debacle but in the long run that it might be worth it in the end. You only have to read about how some AP's have NOT RENEWED THEIR PASSES THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THE PRICE HIKE.

So yeah let's say they cancel the program: then that means tickets would go down to a more manageable level and everything might be back to a more glorious time--I'm thinking from when the park opened till sometime in the 90's. See where I'm going with this?

It never made sense to me how they could jack up prices the way they did, especially with the success of the Pixar, Marvel and now The Force Awakens films. So I do believe that this was all a scheme to get rid of the Annual Passholder program eventually and then things will pick up and get back to better times. The AP's (majority of them) started treating the place like it was their own little backyard adventure with NO RESPECT FOR THE RESORT ITSELF OR THE TOURISTS THAT "PAID" MAJORLY FOR A "VACATION." Cast members know this stuff--I've read their complaints on the 'net about how they can tell a tourist from an AP holder. The entitlement attitude is off the chart. So this may have very well been part of the plan to get rid of the "packed crowds." Either that or does Disney want to go out of business? I'm betting on the former.

Now also you have this to think about? Just what if the Brazilian tour groups aren't ALLOWED IN THIS YEAR? Remember--Zika virus?

Just my two cents.

If there were so many annual passholders that they were causing all of these problems, why would Disney want to cancel the program and lose all of that revenue? I mean to be the cause of all the long lines and reservation issues, there would have to be at least 200,000 APs (probably more). That would be around $80 million in revenue.

Then, after cancelling the program to lose all of that revenue, why would they reduce the ticket prices?

I would imagine that in reality, APs are very profitable and spend more on merchandise and food than a normal guest. I would also think that a passholder uses up much less ride capacity on a given day vs. an infrequent visitor. If you go often, you've ridden everything a million times. There is no need to ride everything every time. When I go, I usually ride 2-4 rides in a day and spend the rest of the time eating, walking around or shopping. We just rotate what we haven't ridden in a while.

 

[peter11435]

Shall I draw up a 1990-2000 list?

You mean when the resort expanded at an unprecedented rate. No thanks. I'm well educated on what was added between 1990-2000. Or the Disney decade as it was called. I watched it all get built.

That type of expansion is not sustainable. I'm not sure any of us would like to see 40 hotels and 7 theme parks at WDW today. The property needed to be developed and it was.

But if you really want to let's look at it for the Magic Kingdom. What attractions were added from 1990-2000. Splash mountain and the barnstormer were about the only two entirely new additions. Legend of the lion king, timekeeper, Winnie the Pooh, alien encounter and buzz light year opened as replacements.

 

[peter11435]

And I'm sure you think NFL was a MAGICal and perfect addition to the park. Give me a freaking break. Nothing of substance has been added at any WDW park since Everest. You can wave your magic wand and sprinkle all the pixie dust you want, but it won't change the reality.

It won't change your opinion but your opinion does not equal reality. Many people would consider toy story mania, mine train, mermaid, Nemo, frozen, and several other attractions to be "of substance." Once again. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Are you going to try to tell me that buzz light year and Winnie the Pooh have more "substance" than mermaid or frozen...

 

[MinnieWaffles]

What a miserable list. Thanks for proving our point. 3 new kiddie rides across 4 parks over a decade. Absolutely embarrassing.

Oh no! Disney World, a series of parks known for targeting families builds kiddie rides instead of mega coasters! HOW DARE THEY? I DEMAND INCREDIBLE HULK BE PLACED IN THE MIDDLE OF FANTASYLAND RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

 

[Donaldfan1934]

A little over dramatic? Lower attendance at higher prices is better for profitability. If you raise your prices 10% and sell 5% less tickets you end up with a 4.5% increase in revenue. You also can lower your payroll because less employees are required to service the 5% smaller crowd. Plus the 95% of people that still go will have a better experience.

The goal is not to pack as many people as possible into the parks. The goal is to make the maximum amount of profit. If you cut prices 25% and drove up attendance the experience would be so miserable that people would stop going. No, the solution isn't to build more rides because then you have additional financing costs and staffing costs.

Optimally, they would double prices and reduce attendance by 40% or something like that. That would allow for significantly reduced payroll while increasing revenue by 20%. Unfortunately for Disney and fortunately for us, that kind of price hike would cross a threshold that would reduce attendance to well below half therefore costing revenue.

Thank you for explaining this. On a forum where there can be a strong focus on the negative, this shows a way in which Disney is trying to improve the guest experience. I was there at the end of May and the low crowds really put the experience above other recent trips.

 

[71jason]

i don't disagree with much said in the thread here about why the crowds are down. another factor i was wondering about was -
do you think the crowds at this time of year are lower because of the growth in the fall?

it might contribute a bit. the halloween party atmosphere is great and seems to have gotten a lot bigger the last 4-5 years. the weather is better, you have dining offers and food/wine as well. maybe more people are just waiting for october?

Not disagreeing, but perhaps coming at it from a different angle, I think there has been a noticeable uptick in 3 and 4-day vacations throughout the year vs. the traditional week in Summer.

How much of that is increased prices, how much of that is uncertainty in the economy at large, how much of that is people learning about the crowds (now declining, ironically) and heat in July? Impossible to tell.

 

[Mem11]

Oh no! Disney World, a series of parks known for targeting families builds kiddie rides instead of mega coasters! HOW DARE THEY? I DEMAND INCREDIBLE HULK BE PLACED IN THE MIDDLE OF FANTASYLAND RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

"Your dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway.” - Walt Disney