Covid Vaccine Updates and General Discussion About Vaccines

[GoofGoof]

For kids? Honestly, how do you know that? Literally almost no kid under 12 has died from Covid. That's a fact, so a Covid infection is certainly on the spectrum of LOW risk, particularly for kids.

Given that we don't know long term impacts of a vaccine that was literally brought to market in record time, I think the argument to wait on kids can be made very easily. Your point about Chicken Pox isn't ridiculous, but we know a lot more about that particular vaccine and it wasn't brought to market in less than a year.

There are studies on both sides, but kids seem to not be the major spreaders either.

Covid in children:
3.2M cases
4,163 hospitalizations
266 deaths

Yes. I don't read the Washington Post, but the CDC has reported 238 TOTAL deaths in the US of anyone 0-17, which doesn't even pull out people with underlying conditions. If we use the 6% of no underlying conditions (only Covid on death cert), it's 14 people under 17 yrs old.

I also said under 12, which means the number is even lower than 238. So yeah, kids are virtually at no risk for dying of Covid-19. And don't try to get technical. I never said NO ONE has died from it but it's obvious there is virtually no risk for kids. It doesn't mean it CAN'T happen, but we are obviously going to play odds, right? Kids die of the flu, strep throat, chicken pox, and other things in similar small numbers. Get a grip.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

So the death of children with underlying health conditions don’t count? That’s just cold.

 

[Shouldigo12]

Covid in children:
3.2M cases
4,163 hospitalizations
266 deaths

So the death of children with underlying health conditions don’t count? That’s just cold.

The callousness of some of the people on this site is disturbing. I never would have thought people on here would approach the preventable deaths of children so casually.

 

[GoofGoof]

The callousness of some of the people on this site is disturbing. I never would have thought people on here would approach the preventable deaths of children so casually.

I’m out on this conversation. I hope we get back to talking about the vaccines again here but there’s no good that will come out of this tangent anymore.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Covid in children:
3.2M cases
4,163 hospitalizations
266 deaths

So the death of children with underlying health conditions don’t count? That’s just cold.

Right. So you're shutting down schools for 266 deaths, 94% which had underlying conditions? For me, tough sell. Or if you're only speaking from a vaccine perspective, you're essentially saying to vaccinate all kids (perhaps 30M kids) and hope nothing goes wrong.

You gotta do the same math for flu, chicken pox, and others.

For me, doesn't make sense. Not sure what people like you want. There are no guarantees in life and a vaccine isn't foolproof. We sent kids to school for decades with many other viruses that definitely killed kids in small numbers.

 

[Chef Mickey]

The callousness of some of the people on this site is disturbing. I never would have thought people on here would approach the preventable deaths of children so casually.

We live in the real world. Everything is cost/benefit, including decisions made for kids. There is no guarantee the vaccine doesn't have some small number of horrible outcomes too, correct?

We don't ban air travel because people (including kids) die in planes. We are talking an extremely small number, possibly in line with other viruses (I am too lazy to look) but we send kids to school with other risks. Vaccine in kids is also NOT a zero risk proposition.

All you death people are the same. 1 person dies and you say, HOW COLD!! You EVIL person.

Relax with the persecution. We have to do what makes sense and we do it every day with every age group. You likely have a greater chance of dying on your way to school in a car than dying from Covid as a child.

 

[GoofGoof]

Right. So you're shutting down schools for 266 deaths, 94% which had underlying conditions? For me, tough sell. Or if you're only speaking from a vaccine perspective, you're essentially saying to vaccinate all kids (perhaps 30M kids) and hope nothing goes wrong.

You gotta do the same math for flu, chicken pox, and others.

For me, doesn't make sense. Not sure what people like you want. There are no guarantees in life and a vaccine isn't foolproof. We sent kids to school for decades with many other viruses that definitely killed kids in small numbers.

You guys are literally creating a straw man argument. Show me one school district that is shut down because kids aren’t vaccinated. It doesn’t exist. Nobody is saying shut all schools down.

As far as risks of the vaccines vs risks of Covid, half a billion people worldwide have been vaccinated and none have died. Zero. There have been some allergic reactions and many normal mild symptoms. What evidence exists that there could or will be any long term issues with the vaccine? Are doctors or scientists or experts saying they are worried about that? If so I’d like to see that, so far it’s a what if talking point but there’s no science behind the fears.

On the flip side Covid infection has some known long term issues and doctors and scientists are also concerned with issues around the heart and now neurological issues as well. There are many unknowns about the long term impact of Covid infection. We know some student athletes were suffering from a potentially deadly heart issue months after infection. It seems to me there are more potential long term implications from getting Covid than potential Long term implications from getting the vaccine. In the case of the JnJ vaccine the technology has been used for years in an Ebola vaccine and has been used in millions of children worldwide with no serious complications. The mRNA vaccines are new technology but just because they are new doesn’t mean they are potentially dangerous.

 

[bdearl41]

The callousness of some of the people on this site is disturbing. I never would have thought people on here would approach the preventable deaths of children so casually.

The issue is school closures also cause deaths too. Suicides and domestic killings which would of been avoided if school WAS in person. It’s not a zero sum argument

 

[GoofGoof]

The issue is school closures also cause deaths too. Suicides and domestic killings which would of been avoided if school WAS in person. It’s not a zero sum argument

But if those kids who killed themselves or died in domestic killings had underlying medical conditions do their deaths not count either?

 

[bdearl41]

But if those kids who killed themselves or died in domestic killings had underlying medical conditions do their deaths not count either?

Ok that’s a ridiculous comment. I said nothing about underlying conditions. I just was pointing out the mitigation efforts have causes loss of life too. You missed the point by a lot. I’m not the one you were arguing with about underlying conditions. I’m just saying it’s callous too to not consider the immense negative impacts of school being closed as well. There is not perfect answer and the problem with this whole thing is people thinking their opinion is flawless.

 

[bdearl41]

But if those kids who killed themselves or died in domestic killings had underlying medical conditions do their deaths not count either?

Here’s a better way to do it. ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO PREVENT DEATH. PERIOD. So stop pretending you know how to do it.

 

[GoofGoof]

Ok that’s a ridiculous comment. I said nothing about underlying conditions. I just was pointing out the mitigation efforts have causes loss of life too. You missed the point by a lot. I’m not the one you were arguing with about underlying conditions. I’m just saying it’s callous too to not consider the immense negative impacts of school being closed as well. There is not perfect answer and the problem with this whole thing is people thinking their opinion is flawless.

It was a purposely ridiculous comment and not really directed at you, just pointing out how ridiculous it is to somehow discount children’s deaths because they have a medical condition.

 

[Chef Mickey]

You guys are literally creating a straw man argument. Show me one school district that is shut down because kids aren’t vaccinated. It doesn’t exist. Nobody is saying shut all schools down.

As far as risks of the vaccines vs risks of Covid, half a billion people worldwide have been vaccinated and none have died. Zero. There have been some allergic reactions and many normal mild symptoms. What evidence exists that there could or will be any long term issues with the vaccine? Are doctors or scientists or experts saying they are worried about that? If so I’d like to see that, so far it’s a what if talking point but there’s no science behind the fears.

On the flip side Covid infection has some known long term issues and doctors and scientists are also concerned with issues around the heart and now neurological issues as well. There are many unknowns about the long term impact of Covid infection. We know some student athletes were suffering from a potentially deadly heart issue months after infection. It seems to me there are more potential long term implications from getting Covid than potential Long term implications from getting the vaccine. In the case of the JnJ vaccine the technology has been used for years in an Ebola vaccine and has been used in millions of children worldwide with no serious complications. The mRNA vaccines are new technology but just because they are new doesn’t mean they are potentially dangerous.

I work in healthcare. There is some concern for long term impacts of mRNA and it was unprecedented in terms of the speed to market. Dismissing the fact drug companies can make mistakes is totally irresponsible.

All I'm saying is kids aren't some high risk group. You say zero died from a vaccine? That's great. Almost no one under 12 died from Covid either, but yes, some did. You're comparing over a year of Covid data to a couple months of vaccine data. Let's wait a year and see if anything comes out regarding side effects from vaccines.

It's not a strawman to point out other risks we take every day. Vaccines aren't risk free, particularly one that has been rushed to market.

I'm not some anti-vaccine guy. I think it's a great thing most people should get, like any vaccine. I get a flu shot and take any vaccine I need. I do know (based on data) kids are the least susceptible to Covid-19 and anyone worried about long-term impacts MIGHT decide to wait, get the JNJ version, or perhaps not worry about getting a vaccine at all for their child. We are talking small numbers in either case. Just because the Covid death count isn't absolute zero doesn't mean it's not close to risk free for children. It actually is based on the data. In fact, the data of deaths is so small and rare in children, they probably need to be examined case-by-case.

 

[GoofGoof]

I work in healthcare. There is some concern for long term impacts of mRNA and it was unprecedented in terms of the speed to market. Dismissing the fact drug companies can make mistakes is totally irresponsible.

All I'm saying is kids aren't some high risk group. You say zero died from a vaccine? That's great. Almost no one under 12 died from Covid either, but yes, some did. You're comparing over a year of Covid data to a couple months of vaccine data. Let's wait a year and see if anything comes out regarding side effects from vaccines.

It's not a strawman to point out other risks we take every day. Vaccines aren't risk free, particularly one that has been rushed to market.

I'm not some anti-vaccine guy. I think it's a great thing most people should get, like any vaccine. I get a flu shot and take any vaccine I need. I do know (based on data) kids are the least susceptible to Covid-19 and anyone worried about long-term impacts MIGHT decide to wait, get the JNJ version, or perhaps not worry about getting a vaccine at all for their child. We are talking small numbers in either case. Just because the Covid death count isn't absolute zero doesn't mean it's not close to risk free for children. It actually is based on the data. In fact, the data of deaths is so small and rare in children, they probably need to be examined case-by-case.

Can you post some links to the experts talking about the potential long term risks of the vaccine? I haven’t seen anything like that outside of social media circles.

 

[bdearl41]

It was a purposely ridiculous comment and not really directed at you, just pointing out how ridiculous it is to somehow discount children’s deaths because they have a medical condition.

Sorry.

 

[Chef Mickey]

But if those kids who killed themselves or died in domestic killings had underlying medical conditions do their deaths not count either?

It would be part of the analysis, definitely. Underlying conditions matter.

If you weigh 400 lbs, have diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease and die of Covid-19...what did you die of really? 3.8 other conditions in 94% of all deaths is definitely a massive factor in analysis of the severity of a virus and understanding the overall public health issues.

We essentially showed we are keeping very unhealthy people alive that would be dead without modern medicine or with a relatively minor respiratory illness for healthy people. I had Covid. I was sick 1 day with a 99.2 fever. I've felt so much worse with food poisoning, it wasn't even close. And yes, my case is a lot more common than the alternative, so it's relevant.

 

[ToTBellHop]

This thread has taken a turn...

Honestly, not much more to discuss until kids can get the vaccines.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Can you post some links to the experts talking about the potential long term risks of the vaccine? I haven’t seen anything like that outside of social media circles.

Let's be serious. No one is going to talk about drug companies making mistakes now, particularly with how the media operates and the narrative they are pushing. I can post links to drugs approved by the FDA only to later be found to cause cancer.

My reference to long term impacts was a more general one; that mRNA is new tech, the vaccine was rushed, and drug companies have made mistakes in the past. Because kids are essentially a no risk group, this might give some parents pause into rushing their kid to the doc to get a vaccine for something that poses essentially no risk to their child.

 

[correcaminos]

I think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence on both sides of the kids spreading argument. While surely some kids can pass Covid the data flushes out they pass it at a lower rate than adults and a much lower rate than they do other virulents. If adults get vaccinated due to the incredibly low danger to kids, kids vaccination shouldnt be fully required for school. But what do I know. People are more scared of Covid than guns

Again coming across as tone deaf. Long haulers are real. They are not just unhealthy people prior either. Talking about covid like I fear is not helpful. I have a healthy respect for the disease.

If kids can spread, there can be mutations still. That's my "concern" with acting like they don't matter. They absolutely do. Will schools require? Who knows, but I expect more colleges to push for it at minimum.

For kids? Honestly, how do you know that? Literally almost no kid under 12 has died from Covid. That's a fact, so a Covid infection is certainly on the spectrum of LOW risk, particularly for kids.

Given that we don't know long term impacts of a vaccine that was literally brought to market in record time, I think the argument to wait on kids can be made very easily. Your point about Chicken Pox isn't ridiculous, but we know a lot more about that particular vaccine and it wasn't brought to market in less than a year.

There are studies on both sides, but kids seem to not be the major spreaders either.

Oh geez not the record time argument. That vaccine was in the works for decades. Only because we had a global pandemic could we get the data quickly. This stuff isn't new.

 

[GoofGoof]

Let's be serious. No one is going to talk about drug companies making mistakes now, particularly with how the media operates and the narrative they are pushing. I can post links to drugs approved by the FDA only to later be found to cause cancer.

My reference to long term impacts was a more general one; that mRNA is new tech, the vaccine was rushed, and drug companies have made mistakes in the past. Because kids are essentially a no risk group, this might give some parents pause into rushing their kid to the doc to get a vaccine for something that poses essentially no risk to their child.

Gotcha, so no actual real concerns with the vaccine itself, just the generic it was rushed. Drugs and vaccines are not the same thing. A drug which is taken repeatedly has a much higher chance of causing damage over the long term than a vaccine taken once.

 

[bdearl41]

Again coming across as tone deaf. Long haulers are real. They are not just unhealthy people prior either. Talking about covid like I fear is not helpful. I have a healthy respect for the disease.

If kids can spread, there can be mutations still. That's my "concern" with acting like they don't matter. They absolutely do. Will schools require? Who knows, but I expect more colleges to push for it at minimum.


Oh geez not the record time argument. That vaccine was in the works for decades. Only because we had a global pandemic could we get the data quickly. This stuff isn't new.

2 things. 1) we aren’t eliminating Covid so we have to learn to live with it. 2)Fear of Covid is a real thing. It has made people act irrationally. I’m not saying that Covid doesn’t have danger to some. But to most it’s harmless and we cannot shut down life forever. That’s all I’m saying.