Covid Vaccine Updates and General Discussion About Vaccines

[MickeyLuv'r]

Actually, If we get vaccinated I am hoping this will get us back to normal to where we just throw the Mask's away all together. I see the Vaccine for Corona Virus to be like getting the flu shot on a yearly basis. I hope I am wrong on that but it is a possibility. 2020 no matter how you look at it has been a terrible year. How about we all make 2021 much better and get back to full normalcy so we all can just bicker that we like this or hate that and why is Disney doing that and not this. It would be nice to see everyone's faces again with smiles instead of a mask. If a vaccine get me to this point then I am all for it.

To some extent, it depends how long the vaccine continues to offer protection. At this point, from what I have read, it is too soon to know.

I'm inclined to think masks might be around for some time, in some places. It depends how quickly cases drop off in each location, how well each place has cooperated/welcomed local ordinances all along, population density.

Much of what has happened in the current pandemic is very similar to what happened in the 1918 pandemic. Cities tried to impose restrictions. some places welcomes the rules, some places resisted the rules.

Before this pandemic started, some folks voluntarily wore masks during flu season, but I don't imagine that would be the case in every part of the country.

 

[Calmdownnow]

I think I read somewhere that the EU has contracted enough vaccine purchases to vaccinate everyone 5 times over.

When you are gambling on a vaccine, you are spread betting against whether a) the vaccine is effective; b) the vaccine can be produced in sufficient dosage numbers to meet need; c) the time frame it may take to produce sufficient dosages; d) the medical conditions required to deliver effective vaccinations (e.g temperature of vaccine, transportability etc) are deliverable; e) and many other variables. The developed economies have been spread betting. using millions of $/Eus with their support for multiple research projects for the past 8 months.

 

[GoofGoof]

When you are gambling on a vaccine, you are spread betting against whether a) the vaccine is effective; b) the vaccine can be produced in sufficient dosage numbers to meet need; c) the time frame it may take to produce sufficient dosages; d) the medical conditions required to deliver effective vaccinations (e.g temperature of vaccine, transportability etc) are deliverable; e) and many other variables. The developed economies have been spread betting. using millions of $/Eus with their support for multiple research projects for the past 8 months.

Yes, for sure. They were smart not to put all the eggs in one basket. If (and it’s still a big if) multiple vaccines all prove safe and effective then the EU, US, UK and Japan plus others will likely have purchased many more doses than needed but the rest of the world will be eager to take some of the excess, especially countries with limited resources that were not going to sign advance purchases. I am also curious to see if any of these companies will allow others to manufacture their vaccine too. For example, one of the largest vaccine manufacturers in the world is in India. Theu are working with the AstraZeneca team now, but would they also potentially ramp up production of someone else’s vaccine if it proves effective. There are a billion+ people in India to vaccinate. Also curious to see what China does. Lots of people there too.

 

[correcaminos]

I absolutely think WDW should implement a no covid vaccine record, no entry policy (once the vaccine is widely available). Why should the rest of us have to cater to the self entitled anti vaxxers like the 4 people in the survey above who will never take the vaccine... well then you should not get to enjoy WDW either. You make your bed of misinformation, you lie in it.

While I am completely against the anti-vaxxer groups, there are legitimately groups of people who cannot vaccinate for legitimate medical reasons. I'm very much in the "stay away if you won't get vaccinated" but I am 100% understanding that people cannot (vs will not) get it. I don't want to punish all... otherwise I agree.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Public school is something that is guaranteed available to all citizens (and it’s legally required for a kid under a certain age to be educated)so people may get out of a vaccine requirement on the basis of religion there, but WDW is a private business. They have the right to set safety protocols and if people don’t want to follow they have the option to not go. I’m not saying they will do this or need to do it, but that if they don’t it most likely won’t be due to legal challenges. I think it all depends on the timing and how long it takes for a return to normal. For WDW they need to be free of Covid restrictions to expand capacity and start the return to business as normal. If they see that being 6 months or a year away I could see them considering this option. If it is more like a few additional months once the vaccine is readily available then I think they will ride it out.

I think political will is also going to be a factor.

Much depends on local and national political will. If we reach a strong consensus, then fewer people will opt out. If we continue to be very divided, then more people will opt out.

I'm sure it also matters how effective and safe the vaccine is over time. If there are no/few reports of side effects, and the vaccine offers long term protection, compliance will be easier to achieve. If the vaccine only offer short term effects, it will be harder to achieve compliance.

Which way will Florida leadership go?

 

[Disney Experience]

While I am completely against the anti-vaxxer groups, there are legitimately groups of people who cannot vaccinate for legitimate medical reasons. I'm very much in the "stay away if you won't get vaccinated" but I am 100% understanding that people cannot (vs will not) get it. I don't want to punish all... otherwise I agree.

I know in the Pfizer study they added 12000+ more subjects beyond the 30000 to get data on younger(16+) people, as well as people with longer term diseases such as AIDS. This was before their new study started for children.

One thing I like about the Messenger RNA novel technique that Pfizer and Moderna used is the limited cells that will be hijacked by the vaccine. I can picture with a compromised immune system that those vaccines that use a modified cold virus such as AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson, will have a larger chance of unintended consequences, since the virus will replicate in the host[I am ignorant if they have totally crippled the virus's ability to replicate or are using it as a way to boost the vaccine effect]. Also if someone had immunity to the modified cold virus they may neutralize the vaccine without learning about the unique covid detail.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think political will is also going to be a factor.

Much depends on local and national political will. If we reach a strong consensus, then fewer people will opt out. If we continue to be very divided, then more people will opt out.

I'm sure it also matters how effective and safe the vaccine is over time. If there are no/few reports of side effects, and the vaccine offers long term protection, compliance will be easier to achieve. If the vaccine only offer short term effects, it will be harder to achieve compliance.

Which way will Florida leadership go?

I can‘t imagine why any politician or political party would oppose the vaccine. Everyone knows that its easier to get re-elected when the economy is good and a vaccine is the absolute best thing for the economy.

As far as current presidential politics. I can’t see the incoming administration doing anything other than pushing hard for vaccinations. The outgoing administration wants to take credit for a successful vaccine based on their warp speed program so I can’t see why they would want to impede the vaccine’s success. In theory both sides can and probably will take credit for the vaccine so both sides should be in favor of it and happy it succeeds. I personally could care less who gets credit for the vaccine as long as I can have my dole whip this summer without a mask

 

[Disney Experience]

I think political will is also going to be a factor.

Much depends on local and national political will. If we reach a strong consensus, then fewer people will opt out. If we continue to be very divided, then more people will opt out.

I'm sure it also matters how effective and safe the vaccine is over time. If there are no/few reports of side effects, and the vaccine offers long term protection, compliance will be easier to achieve. If the vaccine only offer short term effects, it will be harder to achieve compliance.

Which way will Florida leadership go?

The studies take blood from subjects a number of times. More during and right after vaccination. Afterwards they take it at 6 months or so intervals for two years. That is the granularity of their lab data on how long and how strong the immunity. Of course the empirical cases of covid in vaccinated individuals will provide objective data too.

Right now the higher number of covid cases in many countries has ironically helped the companies get results sooner. Phase 3 results of effectiveness are based on number of cases of covid in the study group.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

With all the masks as well, its highly possible that with many who have worn masks have built up immunity via microdosing, so its possible the newer cases can be much less severe. At least in more populous areas.

We can hope.

It is also possible the vaccine mutates. From what I have read, the makers of the vaccine expect they will have to modify the vaccine over time.

Much depends on how long the protection lasts. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are a very new type of vaccine. The Sinovac Biotech vaccine, which announced some success today, is more of a traditional type of vaccine, and one of a great many that are in various stages of development.

 

[GoofGoof]

The studies take blood from subjects a number of times. More during and right after vaccination. Afterwards they take it at 6 months or so intervals for two years. That is the granularity of their lab data on how long and how strong the immunity. Of course the empirical cases of covid in vaccinated individuals will provide objective data too.

Right now the higher number of covid cases in many countries has ironically helped the companies get results sooner. Phase 3 results of effectiveness are based on number of cases of covid in the study group.

Pfizer went from 90 to 170 cases in there trial results in less than 2 weeks. The trials ongoing should have a good shot at catching up in the US. One positive of all these cases.

 

[Disney Experience]

I can‘t imagine why any politician or political party would oppose the vaccine. Everyone knows that its easier to get re-elected when the economy is good and a vaccine is the absolute best thing for the economy.

As far as current presidential politics. I can’t see the incoming administration doing anything other than pushing hard for vaccinations. The outgoing administration wants to take credit for a successful vaccine based on their warp speed program so I can’t see why they would want to impede the vaccine’s success. In theory both sides can and probably will take credit for the vaccine so both sides should be in favor of it and happy it succeeds. I personally could care less who gets credit for the vaccine as long as I can have my dole whip this summer without a mask

How do you eat dole whip while wearing a mask?

 

[GoofGoof]

How do you eat dole whip while wearing a mask?

very slowly

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I can‘t imagine why any politician or political party would oppose the vaccine. Everyone knows that its easier to get re-elected when the economy is good and a vaccine is the absolute best thing for the economy.

As far as current presidential politics. I can’t see the incoming administration doing anything other than pushing hard for vaccinations. The outgoing administration wants to take credit for a successful vaccine based on their warp speed program so I can’t see why they would want to impede the vaccine’s success. In theory both sides can and probably will take credit for the vaccine so both sides should be in favor of it and happy it succeeds. I personally could care less who gets credit for the vaccine as long as I can have my dole whip this summer without a mask

Over the last few years, we have seen many unexpected surprises in the political arena.

WDW guests are currently allowed to remove their mask when eating a Dole Whip, per WDW's website:

Face Coverings: for each Guest age 2 and up, which must be worn in all public areas—including while entering and exiting dining locations—and can be removed while eating or drinking.

 

[Disney Experience]

Over the last few years, we have seen many unexpected surprises in the political arena.

WDW guests are currently allowed to remove their mask when eating a Dole Whip, per WDW's website:

Face Coverings: for each Guest age 2 and up, which must be worn in all public areas—including while entering and exiting dining locations—and can be removed while eating or drinking.

But you have to wear face coverings while moving. They changed that early on after people had a drink or food item in hand so they would not have to wear a mask. No Dole whip eating while moving inside the parks.

 

[Disney Experience]

We can hope.

It is also possible the vaccine mutates. From what I have read, the makers of the vaccine expect they will have to modify the vaccine over time.

Much depends on how long the protection lasts. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are a very new type of vaccine. The Sinovac Biotech vaccine, which announced some success today, is more of a traditional type of vaccine, and one of a great many that are in various stages of development.

The part of the virus that most makers are targeting is the spike protein. This protein is critical in order for the virus to enter into human host cells. If the virus mutates elsewhere it likely will not effect the vaccine effectiveness. If the virus mutates in the spike, then it may impact the effectiveness.

The Pfizer vaccine produces a spike that I believe is modified slightly in order to be more stable.
Just checked Wikipedia: "The mutated version of the spike protein contains two proline substitutions (designated "2P") that cause it to adopt a shape that stimulates neutralizing antibodies".

These modification of the spike did not prevent those vaccinated with it from having 95% effective resistance to covid-19, i.e. the body recognized the real covid-19 from what it knew from the modified spike protein. So a covid-19 virus mutation would have to both avoid changing the functionality of the spike, and be enough to avoid the immune system from still recognizing it. This bodes well for a vaccine that will not have to change composition often.

How long immunity last is still not known, but the vaccine produces a much stronger immune response than those who actually had covid, while having acceptable short term side effects (Of the immune system responding to the vaccine as is needed)

 

[correcaminos]

I know in the Pfizer study they added 12000+ more subjects beyond the 30000 to get data on younger(16+) people, as well as people with longer term diseases such as AIDS. This was before their new study started for children.

One thing I like about the Messenger RNA novel technique that Pfizer and Moderna used is the limited cells that will be hijacked by the vaccine. I can picture with a compromised immune system that those vaccines that use a modified cold virus such as AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson, will have a larger chance of unintended consequences, since the virus will replicate in the host[I am ignorant if they have totally crippled the virus's ability to replicate or are using it as a way to boost the vaccine effect]. Also if someone had immunity to the modified cold virus they may neutralize the vaccine without learning about the unique covid detail.

Actually it is 12-17 that were just added (this is my trial and they specifically asked us to pass on to loved ones who fit). I am also more than aware of who they added to the trial in terms of immune compromised people (I had to read the release before even giving blood last time on the adolescents being added and the time before that about the growth to approx 45k and who they included) I am a huge proponent of the vaccines, but am also more than aware that some still cannot be vaccinated. I want those protected who cannot be vaccinated for real reasons. I hate punishing those who cannot vs will not.

The studies take blood from subjects a number of times. More during and right after vaccination. Afterwards they take it at 6 months or so intervals for two years. That is the granularity of their lab data on how long and how strong the immunity. Of course the empirical cases of covid in vaccinated individuals will provide objective data too.

Right now the higher number of covid cases in many countries has ironically helped the companies get results sooner. Phase 3 results of effectiveness are based on number of cases of covid in the study group.

Not quite here. The first draw was done prior to vaccination. No draw for the second vaccine (3 weeks later) and then a draw a month after the 2nd shot. Then 6 months and 12 months up to 2 years after start date.

 

[Disney Experience]

Actually it is 12-17 that were just added (this is my trial and they specifically asked us to pass on to loved ones who fit). I am also more than aware of who they added to the trial in terms of immune compromised people (I had to read the release before even giving blood last time on the adolescents being added and the time before that about the growth to approx 45k and who they included) I am a huge proponent of the vaccines, but am also more than aware that some still cannot be vaccinated. I want those protected who cannot be vaccinated for real reasons. I hate punishing those who cannot vs will not.


Actually not quite. The first draw was done prior to vaccination. No draw for the second vaccine (3 weeks later) and then a draw a month after the 2nd shot. Then 6 months and 12 months up to 2 years after start date.

I did not specify exactly when or the frequency of the draws during the first, second or 30 day follow on. Just that the rate of draws is more frequent than for the remainder of the study time. But your data is more exact on timing than what I said.

The full protocol for both Pfizer and Moderna are online and free.

The 12-17 that were just added is a new group(My reference to that was "The new study for children"), I do not think they are part of the 45K of the original30k+12kaddon study. The original 30K which I am part of was 18-85+. Then Pfizer expanded it by another 12K or so and reduced the minimum age to 16, and added HIV and other conditions to the inclusion.

 

[Disney Experience]

One negative for helping others by being in the Phase 3 trials is that even though the doctors on the research say it is ok to donate blood (30 days past second shot), the protocol of One Blood (The local blood donation organization in central Florida) is that you have to wait one year. So it will be a while before I can donate my O Neg blood.

I would hope they change that policy once it has been approved, but I have had some in the field say that would not happen quickly. Seems weird to say the experimental vaccination people cannot donate blood for a year, but people getting it a few months later when emergency use is granted can. Organization's policy do not change quickly.

 

[correcaminos]

One negative for helping others by being in the Phase 3 trials is that even though the doctors on the research say it is ok to donate blood (30 days past second shot), the protocol of One Blood (The local blood donation organization in central Florida) is that you have to wait one year. So it will be a while before I can donate my O Neg blood.

I would hope they change that policy once it has been approved, but I have had some in the field say that would not happen quickly. Seems weird to say the experimental vaccination people cannot donate blood for a year, but people getting it a few months later when emergency use is granted can. Organization's policy do not change quickly.

Out of curiosity where does it state that? I cannot donate for other reasons (I'm O- as well), but most of ours do red cross. I don't see it limited there at least.

 

[Gringrinngghost]

How do you eat dole whip while wearing a mask?

You just don’t inject it into your veins like I do?