Covid Vaccine Updates and General Discussion About Vaccines

[GoofGoof]

I don’t think it’s selfish to want what-you-deem the best product for yourself or your family. I don’t buy less effective cold medicines. And, in any event, we need strong vaccine uptake, and I do not think the new administration would have entered into additional contracts with Pfizer and Moderna if they did not expect that’s what most people will want. 400 million from them plus 100 million from JnJ was already enough. So why did they buy more? Most of those extra doses will arrive after the JnJ ones.

The only explanation is that most people will want the Pfizer or Moderna ones. JnJ will be largely used for select populations and then donated to other countries.

I also think you are expecting more than JnJ can realistically provide. Some states have already moved on to essential workers. For the rest, the move is imminent. There will not be much available from JnJ in the next month. That’s more toward April, during what Fauci describes as “open season”, after essential workers are already taken care of.

Plus, 27% of teachers are already eligible and receiving the current vaccines. There other 73% are scratching their heads over why they aren’t eligible in their states. Many would not take kindly to a JnJ shot in April.

And, again, we need vaccine uptake. Angering people in an otherwise willing-to-vaccinate group lowers uptake. We can’t afford that.

That is why we have bought enough Moderna and Pfizer vaccine for 91% of us.

JnJ said they will have 10 to 12M doses ready upon approval in late Feb and they have fully ramped up production so millions coming off the line each day. There’s no reason to believe they won’t have 30 to 50M doses delivered and in arms before then end of March. One of their board members said 100M doses delivered as early as the end of April. The JnJ shots are also not required to be frozen and one shot. They are perfect for mass workplace vaccinations for that reason. Amazon has already said they will take care of vaccinating their 80,000+ warehouse workers if the government just sends them the shot. This is perfect for that. Sent to the sites, administered immediately and 2 weeks later immunity. How many of those workers will get sick waiting a month or 2 for the “better“ vaccines. Much better to use all the tools we have.

Like I said it’s everyone’s right to want to wait, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If people are eligible to receive JnJ and choose to wait that’s fine, but they shouldn’t then complain doses aren’t available for them. We can’t afford to have employers demanding certain brands. That will just bog down the process.

 

[GoofGoof]

Bingo. By the time we get J&J rolling out, we will not be in a spot where those who are at risk still can’t get scheduled

JnJ will be approved by then last week of Feb. it would be great if we were through the high risk groups by then but not likely.

 

[correcaminos]

Wow...attitudes like that will ensure we never achieve herd immunity. Thank goodness the folks making the decisions are a bit more pragmatic.

“Shut up and take your shot” may work in China but not the USA. People won’t even wear masks appropriately.

Let’s circle back on this in August and see who was correct.

Well you 100% misinderstood my thoughts. It's no different than those who say mask up or stay home. We're in a pandemic of a year now, choices really are not as open as you think. Or we'd all be running around like normal. We're not.

My comments are feellings, not something to be right about. If you are going to drop China, are you trying to say opinions are bad?

My opinion is we are full of selfish jerks in the US who don't give a flip about others. I'm just tired of catering and coddling. I don't coddle my own offspring, why would I want to others who are doing it to simply be contrary.

But my point you missed in trying to argue when I am giving feelings only is right now you want a vaccine? You have zero choice in what you get. None. You either get what is given or you don't sign up. So we're actually doing it now. Will it continue? No clue. We may or may not get choices. None of my loved ones had a choice in what they got.

I actually did but only in that I agreed to do the trial or not. If I were in the regular group, I know I won't. If J&J comes for my spouse they'll get it because it's the globally caring thing to do. They won't be selfish and prolong vaccination because they decided to go against recommendations for when to be vaccinated. This is our feelings about what we are called to do as humans for other human beings.

You see me as unkind, but let me tell you my motives are about caring for all. Why else would I give up so much of my time to do a trial? I did it for others. I wear a mask for others. I stayed home for others. This is about anyone but me.

 

[correcaminos]

JnJ will be approved by then last week of Feb. it would be great if we were through the high risk groups by then but not likely.

Agreed. We had a 2 week delay for 65 and some other conditions as it is. We haven't even come close to getting high risk or essentials. Though your idea of using J&J for low risk essentials is not bad. Sign my spouse up lol

 

[GoofGoof]

The JnJ vaccine is still not approved. The Biden Administration didn’t want to repeat the mistakes of the past and on buying more doses. Pfizer and Moderna agreed to sell an additional 100M doses each and deliver them by end of July which is a smart move. If anything unexpected happens with JnJ then we have a plan B. Also, if anything happens to either Pfizer or Moderna with delays in manufacturing we have more doses coming from the other as backup. It’s the way we should have done this all along. Over buy and have redundant contingencies. There is no conspiracy theory that JnJ or Novavax or any of the other brands aren’t going to be used if approved. We will use whatever doses are available when they are available.

 

[correcaminos]

The JnJ vaccine is still not approved. The Biden Administration didn’t want to repeat the mistakes of the past and on buying more doses. Pfizer and Moderna agreed to sell an additional 100M doses each and deliver them by end of July which is a smart move. If anything unexpected happens with JnJ then we have a plan B. Also, if anything happens to either Pfizer or Moderna with delays in manufacturing we have more doses coming from the other as backup. It’s the way we should have done this all along. Over buy and have redundant contingencies. There is no conspiracy theory that JnJ or Novavax or any of the other brands aren’t going to be used if approved. We will use whatever doses are available when they are available.

100% correct. I'm still gobsmacked by how some of this was handled or not handled really but don't want to get into that.

I hope J&J is approved. I have little to no hope for Oxford-AZ at this point with how it was handled. J&J nationally and globally could be a game changer. Help prevent mutations while keeping people out of hospitals. If at best we can make this a mild cold, I'll consider it a success and J&J could do that I think based on what we have read. My fingers are crossed since other things were bungled.

 

[GoofGoof]

Agreed. We had a 2 week delay for 65 and some other conditions as it is. We haven't even come close to getting high risk or essentials. Though your idea of using J&J for low risk essentials is not bad. Sign my spouse up lol

I think it makes a lot of sense from a pure distribution standpoint. Ignoring the high vs low risk aspect. Hopefully most high risk essential workers are in the mix getting vaccinated as we speak but for people not high risk so not eligible yet it would be a quick way to get them protected and stop the spread much faster. It’s so much easier with a 1 dose vaccine that doesn’t have to be frozen. Use it wisely to dramatically increase the rate of vaccinations.

100% correct. I'm still gobsmacked by how some of this was handled or not handled really but don't want to get into that.

I hope J&J is approved. I have little to no hope for Oxford-AZ at this point with how it was handled. J&J nationally and globally could be a game changer. Help prevent mutations while keeping people out of hospitals. If at best we can make this a mild cold, I'll consider it a success and J&J could do that I think based on what we have read. My fingers are crossed since other things were bungled.

I think Novavax looks pretty good too. Still needs 2 shots but no freezing and their UK trial had really good results. Not sure when it gets done here but for worldwide distribution another valuable weapon.

 

[correcaminos]

I think it makes a lot of sense from a pure distribution standpoint. Ignoring the high vs low risk aspect. Hopefully most high risk essential workers are in the mix getting vaccinated as we speak but for people not high risk so not eligible yet it would be a quick way to get them protected and stop the spread much faster. It’s so much easier with a 1 dose vaccine that doesn’t have to be frozen. Use it wisely to dramatically increase the rate of vaccinations.


I think Novavax looks pretty good too. Still needs 2 shots but no freezing and their UK trial had really good results. Not sure when it gets done here but for worldwide distribution another valuable weapon.

I know of someone who is in the one in the US. Not sure how it is going here though in terms of time left and such. Sounds promising though.

The idea of J&J to me is a really good one. Could be eaiser to distribute if companies want to help their employees (much like flu shot clinics some have had) and true too of Norwax if it comes to that. I know I sound harsh in some of my posts but really this is about ending the pandemic. These ideas are not at all bad to me. Who knows what will happen but our house is ready to take whatever whenever. Just like I'm ready to do more nasal swabs and blood draws or even shots if asked (barely on the swabs though )

 

[GoofGoof]

My idea to use JnJ for essential workers isn’t just a pie in the sky plan. About a month ago the Governor of FL said that’s exactly what he planned to do in FL.

"And so, by focusing on 65 and plus, that is the best thing we can do to reduce both morbidity and mortality from the coronavirus," Gov. Ron DeSantis says.

He is under increasing pressure to provide vaccines to essential workers, like teachers. DeSantis says if the COVID-19 vaccine from the company Johnson and Johnson gets approved for emergency use, officials could give those doses to the general population.

"That is a one-dose vaccine, you don't got to put it in the freezer like you do the Pfizer or even the Moderna, and that would be widely, I think distributed. So, that would be the easiest thing for a lot of people in the workforce," DeSantis says.

I don’t always agree with what DeSantis does, but in this case it probably makes some good sense.

DeSantis Gives Update On COVID-19 Vaccine Distribution

State-run health departments will continue inoculating seniors until more COVID-19 vaccine doses become available. DeSantis says when demand lessens and supply becomes more available, other groups like teachers can hopefully gain access to the vaccine.

news.wfsu.org

 

[correcaminos]

Going to quietly agree with the post above mine....

 

[OrlandoRising]

I'm already seeing talks of people in my community/friends saying unless they get Pfizer/Moderna, they don't want a vaccine. I'm very curious how the government is going to respond to this; the news made a huge fanfare with the ~95% efficacy. Now that the other vaccines are showing anything less than that, people are discouraged. Will this just be a case of take what you're given, or will there continue to be people hunting down the two coveted vaccines, leaving JnJ and others to lay unused after the people in the camp of "Any vaccine will do" use them?

People should consider the differences between the trials. It's not as simplistic as comparing the topline efficacy rate. From STAT News:
But comparing efficacy in those vaccines to the efficacy of Johnson & Johnson’s is challenging because of differences in the designs of the Phase 3 clinical tests — essentially the trials were testing for different outcomes. Pfizer’s and Moderna’s trials were testing for slightly different criteria, with Pfizer counting cases from seven days after receipt of the second dose of vaccine and Moderna waiting till day 14 to start counting cases. Both tested for any symptomatic Covid infection.

J&J, by contrast, sought to determine whether one dose of its vaccine protected against moderate to severe Covid illness — defined as a combination of a positive test and at least one symptom such as shortness of breath, beginning from 14 or 28 days after the single shot. (The company collected data for both.)

Because of the difference in the trials, making direct comparisons is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Additionally, Pfizer and Moderna’s vaccines were tested before the emergence of troubling new variants in Britain, South Africa, and Brazil. It’s not entirely clear how well they will work against these mutated viruses.

The J&J vaccine was still being tested when the variants were making the rounds. Much of the data generated in the South African arm of the J&J trial involved people who were infected with the variant first seen in South Africa, called B.1.351.

Comparing the Covid-19 vaccines developed by Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson

If we're focusing on one statistic for all these vaccines, it should be all three have been shown to be 100% effective against hospitalization and death from COVID-19.

Another note: J&J also has an ongoing trial testing a two-shot regimen of its vaccine.

 

[Shouldigo12]

Before any jumps on me, please remember I said I couple pages back I had changed my mind and would just get whatever vaccine was offered to me. However, I stand by my earlier statement that I think most of my coworkers would refuse a JnJ shot if it was decided that's all essential workers would be offered. I agree that isn't the most logical decision, but frankly: I get it.

We were told over and over again in spring how important we all were, how we were keeping society going, how everyone was just so thankful for us still coming into work every day. I literally had people stop me and thank me for my service, like I was a soldier in uniform. Then the months went on and the company realized this wasn't going away, so they took away our hazard pay despite our job still being very much hazardous (and for anyone saying "just choose another job"- everyone at that store is either a student, like me, an older person with no marketable skills, or people who were laid off at the start of the pandemic who are desperate for any kind of paycheck. None of us have the option of just choosing another job right now). Vaccines started and we weren't put into 1b because I guess we weren't at risk, or maybe just not important enough, to get vaccinated next. Despite everyone falling over themselves in the spring to tell us how important we were in the spring, and us easily being around 400+ people on a typical weekend shift. And now there's talk of giving us the less efficient vaccine, because we apparently don't need a better one and should just be happy with whatever we get.

Again, please don't come after me telling me to just get what I can or else I'm being selfish. I already plan to. But I know how my coworkers feel, and they're tired of being told how important they are and having people acknowledge how much risk they're putting themselves in, then turning around and saying "Eh, you're not *that* at risk. You don't need hazard pay. You don't need the better vaccine. Just stop complaining!"

Yes, it would be better to just take the vaccine. But I think people need to listen to *why* essential workers might rebel against being offered the JnJ vaccine instead of just jumping to they're selfish.

 

[correcaminos]

Before any jumps on me, please remember I said I couple pages back I had changed my mind and would just get whatever vaccine was offered to me. However, I stand by my earlier statement that I think most of my coworkers would refuse a JnJ shot if it was decided that's all essential workers would be offered. I agree that isn't the most logical decision, but frankly: I get it.

We were told over and over again in spring how important we all were, how we were keeping society going, how everyone was just so thankful for us still coming into work every day. I literally had people stop me and thank me for my service, like I was a soldier in uniform. Then the months went on and the company realized this wasn't going away, so they took away our hazard pay despite our job still being very much hazardous (and for anyone saying "just choose another job"- everyone at that store is either a student, like me, an older person with no marketable skills, or people who were laid off at the start of the pandemic who are desperate for any kind of paycheck. None of us have the option of just choosing another job right now). Vaccines started and we weren't put into 1b because I guess we weren't at risk, or maybe just not important enough, to get vaccinated next. Despite everyone falling over themselves in the spring to tell us how important we were in the spring, and us easily being around 400+ people on a typical weekend shift. And now there's talk of giving us the less efficient vaccine, because we apparently don't need a better one and should just be happy with whatever we get.

Again, please don't come after me telling me to just get what I can or else I'm being selfish. I already plan to. But I know how my coworkers feel, and they're tired of being told how important they are and having people acknowledge how much risk they're putting themselves in, then turning around and saying "Eh, you're not *that* at risk. You don't need hazard pay. You don't need the better vaccine. Just stop complaining!"

Yes, it would be better to just take the vaccine. But I think people need to listen to *why* essential workers might rebel against being offered the JnJ vaccine instead of just jumping to they're selfish.

I get your point of view as a wife of an essential worker (though no one treats him like a soldier, in fact many forget some essential positions are in fact essential). Yet at the same time refusing a vaccine when offered because you want better? Think on how that is viewed by all of us helping everyone to be vaccinated. Like hard work is ignored and tossed aside. There needs to be a middle ground truly. Unless you are high risk, being essential really is only about you getting first dibs on a shot before all else, not at all that you get first dibs on a specific shot.

If it comes to that, I suggest you lobby for a position. Though again J&J is 100% effective against hospitalizations from ehat we've seen. In fact all are. So it's not like you'd be getting nothing. To edit:this was a generic reply not a specific, I am so sorry I didn't make that clear.

I am sorry though, if one flat out refuses to get one brand of shot over another, that's really a detriment to them and all those around them. It is not just a bit selfish but extremely unwise at best to refuse. By getting vaccinated you are helping others as well as yourself. Again go lobby for positions but just don't refuse flat out.

 

[Shouldigo12]

I get your point of view as a wife of an essential worker (though no one treats him like a soldier, in fact many forget some essential positions are in fact essential). Yet at the same time refusing a vaccine when offered because you want better? Think on how that is viewed by all of us helping everyone to be vaccinated. Like hard work is ignored and tossed aside. There needs to be a middle ground truly. Unless you are high risk, being essential really is only about you getting first dibs on a shot before all else, not at all that you get first dibs on a specific shot.

If it comes to that, I suggest you lobby for a position. Though again J&J is 100% effective against hospitalizations from ehat we've seen. In fact all are. So it's not like you'd be getting nothing

I am sorry though, if one flat out refuses to get one brand of shot over another, that's really a detriment to them and all those around them. It is not just a bit selfish but extremely unwise at best to refuse. By getting vaccinated you are helping others as well as yourself. Again go lobby for positions but just don't refuse flat out.

I mentioned in my post that I wasn't going to be turning down the vaccine, I was just explaining the point of view of my coworkers. And it's not just "wanting better". It's feeling like at every turn our sacrifice is being completely ignored. And no, it's not like we would be getting nothing. Which is why I also mentioned refusing wouldn't be the logical choice in my post.

There's just so much fatigue amongst grocery workers. We're just so, so tired of being treated like our lives- and the lives of our loved ones, who would likely get covid too if we catch it- don't matter.

Nothing in this pandemic has been black and white and that includes this topic. Just for clarity, I AM NOT saying essential workers should turn the vaccine, I'm trying to provide context on why they would and asking for people to have a little more sympathy.

 

[correcaminos]

I mentioned in my post that I wasn't going to be turning down the vaccine, I was just explaining the point of view of my coworkers. And it's not just "wanting better". It's feeling like at every turn our sacrifice is being completely ignored. And no, it's not like we would be getting nothing. Which is why I also mentioned refusing wouldn't be the logical choice in my post.

There's just so much fatigue amongst grocery workers. We're just so, so tired of being treated like our lives- and the lives of our loved ones, who would likely get covid too if we catch it- don't matter.

Nothing in this pandemic has been black and white and that includes this topic. Just for clarity, I AM NOT saying essential workers should turn the vaccine, I'm trying to provide context on why they would and asking for people to have a little more sympathy.

Sorry that was meant to be a general you, not directed at you. My mistake for not saying that. It's what I would say to someone who would say no or thinking of saying no. Something others might hear.

I get the feeling that your (you, you and the generic you) sacrifices are being ignored. Again I'm married to one who is totally essential and kept work afloat having to go in not only normally but nearly double the hours. I appreciated his company acknowledging they are essential. No one else is likely going to.

There is fatigue for sure. My husband has had quite a few quit because it became too much. I get it being married to one totally.

So I get it and I have sympathy as one who lives with that in the family. I do. I just see both sides of it I guess. I am also a huge pusher of getting a vaccine for this to anyone. I'm struggling with a friend right now on it too, but it's what needs to be done. I do appreciate all the essentials out there whether grocery, delivery (regular as well as groceries and foods), transportation workers, communication and IT workers, and I am going to quit before I forget a bunch too. Without them this country would be in even more trouble than we are with no food, work or school from home, etc

I appreciate your job and your coworkers too so very much!

 

[Shouldigo12]

Sorry that was meant to be a general you, not directed at you. My mistake for not saying that. It's what I would say to someone who would say no or thinking of saying no. Something others might hear.

I get the feeling that your (you, you and the generic you) sacrifices are being ignored. Again I'm married to one who is totally essential and kept work afloat having to go in not only normally but nearly double the hours. I appreciated his company acknowledging they are essential. No one else is likely going to.

There is fatigue for sure. My husband has had quite a few quit because it became too much. I get it being married to one totally.

So I get it and I have sympathy as one who lives with that in the family. I do. I just see both sides of it I guess. I am also a huge pusher of getting a vaccine for this to anyone. I'm struggling with a friend right now on it too, but it's what needs to be done. I do appreciate all the essentials out there whether grocery, delivery (regular as well as groceries and foods), transportation workers, communication and IT workers, and I am going to quit before I forget a bunch too. Without them this country would be in even more trouble than we are with no food, work or school from home, etc

I appreciate your job and your coworkers too so very much!

I appreciate that. And trust me, I see both sides too! I fully plan to try and convince my coworkers to get the JnJ vaccine if that's what offered to us. We're all sick to death of the pandemic and I completely understand why someone turning down a shot that can help end it sooner would seem like a selfish and inexplicable move.

For the record, I think a move like this would be better recieved if it's advertised as a temporary vaccine workers can get before another becomes available in the summer. I'm not sure if they would need to do studies to make sure the vaccines wouldn't negatively react with each other first; if they do then that approach wouldn't work. But if they don't I think advertising that way would make it seem less like we're getting the "worse" shot (even though it's not worse where it really matters!) and more like we're being offered a mini vaccine to keep us protected until we can get the others.

 

[GoofGoof]

Before any jumps on me, please remember I said I couple pages back I had changed my mind and would just get whatever vaccine was offered to me. However, I stand by my earlier statement that I think most of my coworkers would refuse a JnJ shot if it was decided that's all essential workers would be offered. I agree that isn't the most logical decision, but frankly: I get it.

We were told over and over again in spring how important we all were, how we were keeping society going, how everyone was just so thankful for us still coming into work every day. I literally had people stop me and thank me for my service, like I was a soldier in uniform. Then the months went on and the company realized this wasn't going away, so they took away our hazard pay despite our job still being very much hazardous (and for anyone saying "just choose another job"- everyone at that store is either a student, like me, an older person with no marketable skills, or people who were laid off at the start of the pandemic who are desperate for any kind of paycheck. None of us have the option of just choosing another job right now). Vaccines started and we weren't put into 1b because I guess we weren't at risk, or maybe just not important enough, to get vaccinated next. Despite everyone falling over themselves in the spring to tell us how important we were in the spring, and us easily being around 400+ people on a typical weekend shift. And now there's talk of giving us the less efficient vaccine, because we apparently don't need a better one and should just be happy with whatever we get.

Again, please don't come after me telling me to just get what I can or else I'm being selfish. I already plan to. But I know how my coworkers feel, and they're tired of being told how important they are and having people acknowledge how much risk they're putting themselves in, then turning around and saying "Eh, you're not *that* at risk. You don't need hazard pay. You don't need the better vaccine. Just stop complaining!"

Yes, it would be better to just take the vaccine. But I think people need to listen to *why* essential workers might rebel against being offered the JnJ vaccine instead of just jumping to they're selfish.

As I said earlier everyone is entitled to get whatever vaccine they want or not get one at all. It’s a personal choice. I hear a lot of griping that the rollout is taking too long and groups are angry they haven’t been given priority. I understand that, everyone that wants a vaccine wants it as soon as they can have it. If JnJ is approved that means more people get a vaccine faster. What is the alternative here? Should we just not bother to approve JnJ at all? It sounds like that’s the thought from a lot of people.

I personally would rather have the JnJ shot in March and be covered then wait until July for Pfizer and Moderna to finish their deliveries. Essential workers who are “at risk” due to every day exposure would essentially be waiting extra months for a shot at a vaccine. Remember a JnJ shot on March 1 gets you immunity 3 months earlier than a May 1 shot of Moderna (2nd shot isn’t until June 1). There’s no plan where all essential workers get Pfizer or Moderna vaccines right now or even by end of March. It’s likely that if the rollout continues without JnJ that the 65+ and high risk group will not be done by the end of March so many essential workers would be pushed into April or more likely May. So the choice is waiting potentially several months longer for a vaccine that is exactly as effective in preventing serious illness or death. How many people will we lose over that delay? Young and healthy people statistically fair better but most of us know someone in that category that’s not with us anymore due to Covid.

If the consensus is essential workers don’t want the JnJ vaccine I’m sure the people who have been deemed “not essential” who aren’t going to get a vaccine until May or June now will be thrilled to move up the list and go in March. I know plenty of people who would jump at the chance to be vaccinated in March if others are sticking their noses up at a perfectly good vaccine. I really hope that is what happens and they don’t decide to just not approve JnJ due to this blowback. It would be a real shame to lose a month or more of the summer over this.

 

[GoofGoof]

I mentioned in my post that I wasn't going to be turning down the vaccine, I was just explaining the point of view of my coworkers. And it's not just "wanting better". It's feeling like at every turn our sacrifice is being completely ignored. And no, it's not like we would be getting nothing. Which is why I also mentioned refusing wouldn't be the logical choice in my post.

There's just so much fatigue amongst grocery workers. We're just so, so tired of being treated like our lives- and the lives of our loved ones, who would likely get covid too if we catch it- don't matter.

Nothing in this pandemic has been black and white and that includes this topic. Just for clarity, I AM NOT saying essential workers should turn the vaccine, I'm trying to provide context on why they would and asking for people to have a little more sympathy.

Getting people the JnJ vaccine ASAP is protecting workers and their loved ones. It is 100% effective for serious illness and death. In your example rolling it out to the grocery store chain means they come into the store one day in the beginning of March and everyone gets the shot and several weeks later they are protected.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I think Novavax looks pretty good too. Still needs 2 shots but no freezing and their UK trial had really good results. Not sure when it gets done here but for worldwide distribution another valuable weapon.

My daughter just enrolled in, and received the first Novovax shot for a vaccine trial here in FL!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Canada will now get 84 million doses of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines by September, enough to vaccinate 42 million people (Canada's population is about 38 million, including children under 16).