Country Bear Jamboree closing for lengthy refurbishment in August

[Pixiedustmaker]

you didn't say anything wrong here. except i don't think most people think the article is biased. i just think people that its placement is intended to do more than throw weight behind a country bears refurb.

I don't think the article is very biased. Disney's spin, i.e. Vaughn's quotes, in the article are of course extremely biased, as the opinion of diehard fans of CBJ, such as myself and others, are skewed when compared to the casual guest.

I also think that just because Vaughn may have "Next Gen" on his brain, (and of course how to update rides with new tech is the perennial question), and just because this may have colored his answers . . . I don't think it was deliberate in terms of "placement of the article." Sure, they love to talk about the Next Gen technology and using new technology, what else is new?

It seems that the author is somewhat of a Disney fan, geek, whatever . . . and that he himself might have been following the refurb of CBJ and saw a story and phoned WDI asking for a phone interview. After all, that author has been (is?) following this very thread which has been discussing the refurb for a while. Is it crazy to assume that a NYT writer is a also a Disney fan? If he was following this thread, that may very well have given him the idea for the article.

Even if he didn't have a prior professional contact with Vaughn, if somebody tells you that the New York Times is on the phone about an article concerning your company . . . makes sense to comment unless it is something so bad you want it to go away, or you can't confirm the story.

I think folks worried about being brain-washed, (or something like that), are concerned about a couple of passages:

The overhaul “was done with a lot of love,” said Bruce E. Vaughn, chief creative executive at Walt Disney Imagineering. “You want to be really sensitive to the original spirit. But tastes also change, how people consume media changes. We must keep our product relevant.”

Mr. Vaughn said his team considered a series of questions. How could they make the show relevant to modern kids? How could new technology be introduced to make it better? Are there ways to integrate new Disney or Pixar characters into the show?

The faster pace, Mr. Vaughn said, reflects the speedier way that people speak today and the rise of interactive media. It’s not necessarily that attention spans are shorter, he said, it’s that kids raised on video games are not as accustomed to more passive entertainment experiences.


I think anybody in charge of refurbing CBJ would ask if they show is up-to-date in terms of today's audience's expectations. And, if I am not mistaken, the original CBJ show hasn't ever been updated, so they might not have taken guest's feelings into account when you look at length of the show.

I think reading into this passages and believing that it is a opening volley in a stealth PR war over Next Gen is pretty paranoid. Disney doesn't need to convince anybody as a lot of the Next Gen stuff seems to be just a way to incorporate new technology into the guest experience, nothing new there, IMHO.

Kevin Yee described the ride as being appropriate for today's ADHD audience, and that his kids love the new show, but didn't take to the old one. So, the changes might have been motivated by a lot of factors, (though park capacity is an issue), TDO knew that the show was dated and removal of the Liberace reference was a welcomed change, IMHO.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Exactly. It isn't biased, per se. It is....calculated.

Calculated in that Vaughn basically just spouted the party line? Talking about new technology, keeping rides relevant, and pleasing diehard fans? Sounds like standard stock answers, IMHO. I think that the tech in the show was greatly improved, and they said that they added new technology to allow for easier seasonal changes, or something like that. Seems like general talking points to me, plus Vaughn may have painted himself in a corner by mentioning that they are thinking about returning seasonal overlays.

Or they could actually think about doing the Christmas Show, or others, in the future.

Vaugh could have discussed the Next Gen project, or how it might be incorporated in CBJ, but he didn't. To think that he did might be a case of reading too much into something.

 

[asianway]

I'll say it again...they quoted anonymous message board posters, has that ever been done before? That's the thing that smells the worst.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I'll say it again...they quoted anonymous message board posters, has that ever been done before?

Every five seconds?

Have you ever read an article of the kind without quotes from audience members? If a new gallery opens, they quote visitors. If a new album is released, they quote fans. If a new IPhone is released, they quote Apple forum members.

The very topic of the article is Disney's fan base, and how Disney needs to steer the fine line between preserving its classic properties while keeping them relevant for changing audioence tastes.

All you people are reading inane things into this.


This post planted by Vaughn to discredit critical fans.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Even though some of the thickerheads here will choose to believe their own little fantasy about why the story was in the Times.

I'm still waiting for you to pull a rabbit by its ears out of a big hat, called Oswald, with a big pink ribbon attached to it saying 'fooled you all!'.

Part of me thinks you are just rabblerousing the peanut gallery to show how gullible fanbois are, part of me fears that you did not simply had a few drinks too many at Be our Guest's private Saturday Night Bash and really are serious about this stuff.


I've learned that there is no point in trying to debunk the conspiracy, in trying to demystify the sensational, in trying to add a sense of persepective to the reassuringly self-important idea of powerful organisations moving and acting in response to the actions of the ordinary man. If people believe in the truth behind the truth, then one will never be able to convince them otherwise, because what use the truth.
Hey, it is what sells 'Ancient Aliens' as history to today's audiences.

This post contains hidden messages to Jodie Foster

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Edit: hmmm....on second thought, not a nice post. I'll remove it.

'Removed', just like Romney will remove your job to Malaysia, which proves this post is planted by the Obama campaing team!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'll say it again...they quoted anonymous message board posters, has that ever been done before? That's the thing that smells the worst.

And the story also mentions the poor fan response to the Tiki Room refurb, and airs fan grievances. I think the gist of the article is the fan response. I have seen plenty of new articles mention various social media reactions before, such as Twitter, heck, you've CNN following the top Twitter posts!

I think I've also seen fan responses on message boards mentioned in articles related to Disney, not sure where, but I'll bet we see this sort of thing again.

I think that it rubbed WDW1974 the wrong way that a NYT writer read, probably a good chunk, of this thread and for whatever reason, (probably trivial), decided *not* to quote him/her out of the dozens of posters, or look at the ride capacity issue. Oh, WDW1974 did "like" that article mentioned the word "spirit", but not in reference to him/her, and attacked the author because he didn't interview ex-Imagineers and industry experts.

And an attack saying the article was a "plant" . . . hmmm, a whole lot of attacking going on, then talk of a shadow war,

This was the first little salvo in a big push to get people behind Disney's huge tracking/data mining initiative. Amusing that it was in the NYT. My Mouse Ears are off to the folks behind it, but the battle is just starting.

A little like Don Quixote attacking the wind mills, IMHO.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm still waiting for you to pull a rabbit by its ears out of a big hat, with a big pink ribbon attached to it saying 'fooled you all!'.

Part of me thinks you are just rabblerousing the peanut gallery to show how gullible fanbois are, part of me fears that you did not simply had a few drinks too many at Be our Guest's private Saturday Night Bash and really are serious about this stuff.


I've learned that there is no point in trying to debunk the conspiracy, in trying to demystify the sensational, in trying to add a sense of persepective to the reassuringly self-important idea of powerful organisations moving and acting in response to the actions of the ordinary man. If people believe in the truth behind the truth, then one will never be able to convince them otherwise.
Hey, it is what sells 'Ancient Aliens' as history to today's audiences.

Agree ^. I don't think that WDW1974 seriously believes his/her theory, and that it is just an attempt to see how gullible we are. After all, WDW1974 has a pretty low opinion of us plebeians on this site. If he/she does believe this, it is sort of like the folks who want to believe the moon landing was faked because they like the idea of a super powerful government whose sole goal is to pull the wool over their eyes. Then they foam at the mouth when anybody tells them they might be wrong.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

You're VERY mistaken, Lilly ... or just looking to stir the pot. I don't see what point there is to that when you're flat out wrong.

The show was cut for capacity reasons. Period.

Much like Fantasyland's new areas/attractions were added for capacity reasons.

I'm quite sure increased capacity was put into the equation. (If they could increase demand with it!)
But other than that, you'd be surprised, but many people in Disney really do believe Disney has to continually evolve its offerings to remain relevant. There are people who believe Disney needs to build new attractions, develop new IP franchises, and find new ways to connect with ever changing audience tastes. Such as adapting old properties and attractions. As often as not, these people at Disney are mistaken and are trying to remain relevant not out of sincere audience demand, but out of an urge to appear managerially relevant and up-to-date. This is what closes Horizons for a spinner on ecstacy.

The CBJ, TIKI, America Sings and Mickey Mouse Revue were once very popular, state-of-the-art attractions - forty years ago. They don't capture the audience's imagination any longer the way they once did. At WDW, only the Bears and Tiki survive, at DL, not even that. People don't want to sit still through a lengthy, static show of singing AA's anymore. Why, even if you move audiences through singing AA shows, they have only a lacklustre repsonse to them, as evidenced by the lukewarm response to the Mermaid ride and its cast of singing AA's.

You and I may like the classics, preferably unspoiled, but we are Disney fanatics. The public at large has a bigger appreciation for being sat in a chair that gets violently tossed about in front of a screen projection of Potter or Spiderman. One need not leave this forum to read endless entries of WDW critics that Uni is moving the market forward, while WDW's offerings are stale.
A great many visitors really do think the CoP is outdated, the HoP is a bore and the American Adventure's greatest achievement is it's soft chairs and airconditioning.

For better or for worse, rightfully or mistakenly, Disney does believe it has to update its attractions by making them faster paced, more thrilling, with more familiar IP properties. It has been spouting the same tired lines of 'changing consumer taste in the electronic age' ever since the early nineties, long before NextGen was ever even possibly conceived of.

I say conspirational thinking thrives because of today's short attention spans and desires for the quick answer and big thrills. Disney caters to this by giving its audience dumbed down big thrill attractions.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The CBJ, TIKI, America Sings and Mickey Mouse Revue were once very popular, state-of-the-art attractions - forty years ago. They don't capture the audience's imagination any longer the way they once did. At WDW, only the Bears and Tiki survive, at DL, not even that. People don't want to sit still through a lengthy, static show of singing AA's anymore. Why, even if you move audiences through singing AA shows, they have only a lacklustre repsonse to them, as evidenced by the lukewarm response to the Mermaid ride and its cast of singing AA's.


For better or for worse, rightfully or mistakenly, Disney does believe it has to update its attractions by making them faster paced, more thrilling, with more familiar IP properties. It has been spouting the same tired lines of 'changing consumer taste in the electronic age' ever since the early nineties, long before NextGen was ever even possibly conceived of.

^This.

They did get rid of CBJ at Disneyland, after closing down one of the theaters, thus increasing wait times. With just one theater going, it was often a 14 minute wait if you got there right after the show had begun, and riding it later meant walking back to this corner of the park.

I think that closing the second theater, which increased wait times, really killed the show at Disneyland as guests wouldn't invest the time to watch it, hence ride counts went down.

I know that park wide capacity was increased . . . a little bit, by maybe 500 per hour, but the biggest pay-off is the guests who would have seen the "14 minutes to show time", now will on average see a much lower wait time to the next show, and hence will go ahead and give CBJ a whirl, plus shorter lines during peak times. If CBJ was always a 1 minute wait, (like if they had a couple dozen theaters!), guests would view it in record numbers because you don't have to invest (waste) much time waiting.

Which is more important, keeping CBJ palatable for the average guest, or increasing park capacity 500 per hour? Both are important, and I think they looked at both when they made the cuts they did.

 

[asianway]

Every five seconds?

Have you ever read an article of the kind without quotes from audience members? If a new gallery opens, they quote visitors. If a new album is released, they quote fans. If a new IPhone is released, they quote Apple forum members.

The very topic of the article is Disney's fan base, and how Disney needs to steer the fine line between preserving its classic properties while keeping them relevant for changing audioence tastes.

All you people are reading inane things into this.


This post planted by Vaughn to discredit critical fans.

I get quoting fans, but this is how I usually see such things teed up:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...erest-real-yeti-walt-disney-world-spokeswoman

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I get quoting fans, but this is how I usually see such things teed up:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...erest-real-yeti-walt-disney-world-spokeswoman

The novelty of quoting diehard fans on WDWMagic notwithstanding, isn't it a good thing that an article also covers the fans' reaction? One of the best places to find the diehards would be on the message boards, and the author probably did a phone interview with WDI, given that there wasn't a big official grand reopening of CBJ with press invited. The author also mentioned this site, just the sort of message board populated by fans that Disney would like to keep potential guests away from.

The article you posted mentions some guy from St. Louis, "There is such a thing as the 'Disney Difference,'. " said Tony Crane, a 35-year-old telecommunications-company owner and Disney fan from St. Louis, echoing a phrase often used by Walt Disney Co. executives.

Why St. Louis? Oh, I see, it is really a way of breaking the will of fans by implicitly mentioning that other project Walt was working on in St. Louis, it's the company's way of telling us that a new theme park won't be coming to the U.S. anytime soon. Well, be forewarned Disney! I take off my Oswald Ears to you, but realize we'll be looking for you to play the old St. Louis trick on us! Obviously a planted piece as the "fan" from St. Louis is using TDO terminology regarding the Disney Difference.

Oh, its also a "Spirited" reference because alcohol was supposedly a point of contention between Walt and mayor!

 

[HMF]

What is it with Imagineer Pete Carsillo and controversial ride Refurbishments? Spaceship Earth 07, Haunted Mansion disaster Queue and now heavily edited CBJ.

 

[WDW1974]

If you only knew the whole story ... I love it when some folks are so utterly clueless and you can't change their minds.

PixieDuster, enjoy the fame ... you're right, I am angry I wasn't quoted in that story (I was in the O-Sentinel's 2004 'This Old Park' story from LP.com, which was funny beyond belief since I sorta ... well ... kinda ... planted the story idea to begin with and made sure that it happened!)

Empress Lilly, you were entertaining for a while, but after dealing with arses like wannabe and the 70 IQ Country Bear Boi, not to mention my pal flynnibus who never met a thread where he didn't need to have the last word, my entertainment canteen has run dry.

You are TOTALLY clueless about how and why this story came about and I have no intention of arguing it. I almost hope that one day I can simply explain to you what the deal was ... but you'll still likely not believe it.

So, please, continue. I've got other more interesting threads to play in ... have your fun here in Grizzly Hall ... the two of you can just keep agreeing with each other and ignoring reality.

later, bois ...

 

[spectrodanny]

This further points to "adding false value". Added capacity wasn't needed for Country Bear Jamboree. It would be different if guests ever had to wait more than one show to see it.

I really hope that attendance at the Country Bears drops to the point where it's actually accommodating less guests than it was previously. Either that or a well placed electrical shortage requires them to return the show to a longer version.

it would be nice if they would bring the "Vacation Hoedown" back

 

[FrankLapidus]

Just re-read the article and noticed that they quoted my previous post in this thread and I was the only person they did quote who didn't get a namedrop . My five seconds of fame have passed without me knowing!

it would be nice if they would bring the "Vacation Hoedown" back

It would but sadly I can't see it ever happening. To be honest, as a fan of CBJ I'm happy it's still at WDW at all; every year I wonder whether the show will still be there when I come back the next, I always half-expect some announcement that Disney are shutting it down.

 

[puntagordabob]

1) It IS nothing more than a stupid misconception.

2) TDO is not the decision-maker in cases like this. These things are up to WDI and lots of other departments.

There should be a law against saying "TDO" on these sites!

Seriously? TDO is the top of the chain of command in Orlando...granted there are folks above them in California,etc.... If the leadership wants something to happen or to not happen, they are the ones who push the policies down the chain of command to MAKE it so.

Under your "misconception" WDI would be free to do whatever they wanted to do to make the resort better... and granted I WISH this was the case... it is clearly not.....

 

[GoofyMagic]

Question folks-

Was this Big Al "crash" where the curtains ripple/shake added in this refurb? LOL...They eliminate the eyebrow gag, add this, but not to mention modify Big Al's mouth movements...ugh.

 

[Tramp&TheLady]

Cant wait to get down there to visit guest relations and file a formal complaint about this disgrace of a refurb.

 

[J.E.Smith]

Question folks-

Was this Big Al "crash" where the curtains ripple/shake added in this refurb? LOL...They eliminate the eyebrow gag, add this, but not to mention modify Big Al's mouth movements...ugh.

Looks to me more like Big Al's curtains close fast enough that it looks like they shake.