John park hopper
Well-Known Member
The US population in 1972 was 200 million US population 2021 333 million ---Disney still has a lot of people willing to fork over their money for a Disney experience even if the middle class is shrinking.
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Cost of going to DW waaaay too high.
- Thread starter annabanana
- Start date
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
You want to cross check that against the wealth disparity?
you may find more people = less business
Now…I am NOT one to say “everyone should go to Disney”…that isn’t historically or logically accurate…
…but I have heard…that repeat business and a sense of value is essential. Nothing has happened in 10 years that makes that “disposal”…
…IF you don’t want to sink it. Big one.
John park hopper
Well-Known Member
My point was Disney has a much larger base now to draw guests from, people who want to go will save for a trip or do it on credit. Disney doesn't care how you pay for it.
Yes the middle class has shrunk but it is still considerable
Stats from July 2020
"The American middle class has been shrinking over the past few decades, with just over half of U.S. adults considered middle class by the Pew Research Center in 2020, compared to 61% in 1971."
Yes the middle class has shrunk but it is still considerable
Stats from July 2020
"The American middle class has been shrinking over the past few decades, with just over half of U.S. adults considered middle class by the Pew Research Center in 2020, compared to 61% in 1971."
JIMINYCR
Well-Known Member
They are counting on it. Thats the reason for the huge build up and continued build ups of the DVC's. Convince people that its to their advantage and affordability to buy into them and have many return trips over time. Disney gets the buy in income and pay outs over years time... and all the extras once they do return and are on property.
As far as the one time guests who bring their kids, I'm sure many of those kids fondly remember their one time trip and want their kids to experience Disney as well, so eventually they will venture back. And as pointed out, grandparents love to spoil their grandkids by taking them once theyve had their fill of adult solo trips.
I havent seen numbers as to what percentage return guests make up but I'm sure its pretty substantial.
SSH
Well-Known Member
Shhh. The more everyone praises UO, the faster it's gonna turn into WDW. Keep a good thing quiet. lol
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
The Disney Co. has relied on name recognition, history and a loyal fan base that grew up with Disney being fun, enjoyable and imaginative. The parks and movies plus other entertainment related to each other. Over the last decade the management has become obsessed with the money. Quality of product? Enjoyment of experience? Value versus cost? Seeing guests as monetary resources to be exploited rather than valued customers. The loyal fan base is shrinking for many reasons, but new fans are not developing. The name is becoming a Meh, the history is viewed as that was then what is being done now? The exiting and imaginative is now becoming just like other competitors' entertainment venues. Population numbers may look interesting on charts and graphs but do not correlate to why Disney is slipping and sliding away from its once dominant heights. I quote Mr. Walt Disney “Whatever you do, do it well. Do it so well that when people see you do it, they will want to come back and see you do it again, and they will want to bring others and show them how well you do what you do.” The Disney Co. needs to get back to that philosophy.
networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Certain parties preaching the mantra of globalization has lead to offshoring of lots of those solid middle class jobs. Hopefully the businesses will reconsider their exposure which has been shown by this wave of illness.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
The Disney Co. is an American Icon, an American creation that the current low brow management has taken off course in pursuit of a fast buck with no consideration for long term negative effects. Sad.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
We’re off the grid…but this is intelligent so I’ll run…
“middle class” starts at $53,266…
so how much of that stat does not have the means nor credit to pay for a week in Orlando? Quite a bit I would venture.
we’re well beyond $5,000 for a week bare bones…it’s much closer to $10,000
a great discussion nonetheless…enjoy your Sunday, John
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Certain parties…I agree…both.
I submit the 90’s were where that battle got really ugly…and I wouldn’t have gone with the alternatives either.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
The ceo needs to be ousted now…hopefully the board developments is a first step for that “option”
iger did the dog…because he was a coward after being just as “me obsessed” as late Eisner was…and now it’s a puddle of mud. I don’t think he ever intended to leave yutz in charge…and viewed 2020 as a placeholder…
…see it through…turn the crank with the power behind the scenes.
if the stock continues to fall a couple percent a week…an ouster is worth at least $50 on the street…and the street likes quick, easy, guaranteed money. But then you need fo stabilize.
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eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Eh?? Maybe, maybe not. The old "loyal" customer is not like it was in the past. One big reason? Internet and cheap foreign goods. I think the days of a customer being loyal to one store/ one type of vacation are waning.
Could some of it be because of Disney "greed" but a lot of it is simply there are so many more options for the traditional family you referred to.
Now the second problem again is with your assumption that the majority of visitors are dissatisfied.
The most recent example is the doomsday predictions around here concerning genie plus. While it is very early there hasn't been this revolt anywhere but here.
So Disney might still be making "loyal" customers.
What are dvc sales like?? I don't follow thar but are folks still purchasing timeshares.
My second question would be are loyal customers determined to be those that come every year?? Every two years. I think I'm a pretty loyal Disney fan but I typically go every other year not due to Dosney prices but mainly because there is so much more to do.
So are we still hanging onto the old dirty dancing, return to the same watering hole concept of family vacation?
And again been here for 10 years and 10 years the mantra has been Disney is losing its loyal Fandom. Who's in the parks
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John park hopper
Well-Known Member
Off shoring was a plague for the blue collar worker. It is now affecting white collar workers as well
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
For me I don't look at Disney versus going to Europe and the cost. I look at cost of visiting Disney to other parks in the US. If anything this past summer there was an increase in people going to regional parks. I also know Universal had a big boost this part summer as well. What Disney does have going for it is that many parents continue to take their kids in hopes that they will continue that tradition with their kids.I don't know Sir, I still think those large swaths are still there. Here's the thing, the family of mom, dad and 1.5kid has morph. Here again is marketing genius. Now we've got young married adults, no kids. Now we've got grandparents who have disposable income.
Along with the cruise industry ( 30 years ago Cruises were mainly old married and coupled) mouseworld has done great in expanding its base.
Now also another issues is while we talk about Disney greed vs years past , does the average Joe do that? They look at what is available today. Now I love all these comparisons where folks are traveling to Europe for 10 days for the price of a Disney trip. I haven't experienced that. I just made my reservation for the Jersey shore. July 23 for a week, room and board 4k AND I'm still 2 blocks from beach. Lol I went out to dinner in NYC Friday night tab was 95.00 bucks (that did include tip) pp. 1 drink, no dessert and it was Italian not a fancy steakhouse.
The families I know doing Europe are definitely kicking out 10k.
So the mindset is yes Disney is expensive EVERYTHING else is also.. of course the unknown is whether or not the compare theme park vs theme park or do they just lump vacations into one gigantic pot.
The issue here is people feel that based on there wayback experience Disney owes them a inexpensive vacation and when they don't get it we get these rants.
I think the blowback is going to be more from the perception of nickel and diming then overall expense. I really thought genie +/LL would tip the cow but it actually hasn't (Maybe too early to call). So far it's seems guest have simply factored it in.
Sorry for the long read
The thing is if they continue to run the parks like they are I can see a lot of that tradition ending. We are starting to see it now with many Disney loyalists opting for Universal.
Disney maybe busy right not but I still think that is mainly from cancelled trips.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Off topic..
Ouch living in the alternate reality that is NYC and Philadelphia always makes me forget those number.
Average NYC firefighter ( my nephew) is 87k after 5 years.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Dvc is a longterm proposition…50+ years.
chapek being awful (he is…bs aside) wouldn’t kill that in 2 years.
sales? They are obviously lower due to circumstances…riviera is the only thing up…
they needed an easy sell - hence grand Floridian (which they were gonna do anyway)…and canned the reach - fort wilderness (which they probably weren’t gonna do anyway)
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
And the largest concentration of wdw trackers per capita still reside roughly in the “Bermuda triangle” formed by Chicago, Washington DC and Boston…
its why “raw numbers”…like total population doesn’t tell the whole tale.
an unrelated example is when they show the kindergarten red/blue electoral map…it looks lopsided…then if you put the actual population density on the map, it’s lopsided the other way.
I don’t honestly see how less than $100K enjoys themselves in Orlando now…honestly. And that escalated far faster than most of the standard “economic” excuses.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
An even bigger difference is in 1972 only the well off could afford to fly, now flying has become so affordable that billions fly every year, WDWs potential guest pool has grown by hundreds of millions globally.
They may never be return visitors but according to all the AP threads here Disney doesn’t want return visitors anyway, they want the one time visitor willing to stay 7-10 days and drop top dollar.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
…take a guess at what percentage of travelers are repeat wdw travelers every single day? For 30 years?
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I’d guess 90%, but people are convinced Disney doesn’t want return visitors and everything they’re doing is an attempt to drive away APs and return visitors because we spend less per day than day trippers and one timers.