Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Heppenheimer]

Normally a vaccine to be given to children has to undergo at least a three year trial in case there are long term effects. These vaccines have not been tested sufficiently yet people are going to allow their kids to be guinea pigs despite the troubling heart complications being seen. I have a couple of friend who are virologists and worked on the U.K.'s vaccine and they won't give it to their children.

There is no "3 year rule" for any kind of medical or vaccine testing.

And as has been stated over and over again, the absolute longest latency for any vaccine side effect to appear is about six weeks. Out of an abundance of caution, the trials usually monitor for 12 weeks. There simply isn't a viable biological mechanism for a vaccine to cause unexpected side effects months to years later, and in practice, none have ever been observed.

Stop this "guinea pig" nonsense. These vaccines have and are undergoing the same efficacy and safety testing as any other.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Normally a vaccine to be given to children has to undergo at least a three year trial in case there are long term effects. These vaccines have not been tested sufficiently yet people are going to allow their kids to be guinea pigs despite the troubling heart complications being seen. I have a couple of friend who are virologists and worked on the U.K.'s vaccine and they won't give it to their children.

Please stop spewing this nonsense. This attitude is prolonging the pandemic and causing real harm to people.

 

[mmascari]

Very clever but when on a flight you don't have to do something in return for the reward of being allowed to unbuckle your seatbelt.

It was stated as a quid pro quo that either you wear a mask or get vaccinated. It was not stated that this may change in two months.

Also, if you really have to use the bathroom you can get up during turbulence and nobody tells you to sit back down and buckle up. During cruise it is more of a guideline than a mandate. During takeoff and landing it's a mandate.

It wasn’t an explicit exchange, it also wasn’t explicit but it did depend on the conditions. Conditions changed. Get an area back down to yellow or blue, and the exchange works again. It’s a group project, and some members of the group are dropping the ball for everyone.

That bathroom trip while flying in turbulence depends on the turbulence conditions too. If it’s light and you go, might be fine, might have a fall or maybe a bruise. If it’s heavy, you might slam your head into the ceiling and have a much worse outcome.

We’re in a state of high COVID turbulence in most areas currently. Let’s get back to calmer times, and everyone will come out better.

 

[correcaminos]

My child is current guinea out for these vaccines, and it’s fine. She supports it (as a teen), and we support it as her parents.

Btw this was sent to me. You should get one for your DD

'HUMAN GUINEA PIG Covid Vaccine' Men's Premium T-Shirt | Spreadshirt

Design 'HUMAN GUINEA PIG Covid Vaccine' on Men's Premium T-Shirt in black + more colours, size S-5XL at Spreadshirt » customizable ✓ easy returns ✓

www.spreadshirt.com

 

[danlb_2000]

Why won't the government acknowledge that 'natural acquired' immunity is better than synthetic induced vaccination. People who have survived COVID do not need nor should they take the vaccine. This is not a 'one size fits all' and the Government is not listening to science.

Because we don't know if it is better or not.

COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity from prior infections

In today's MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus.

www.news-medical.net

 

[danlb_2000]

Normally a vaccine to be given to children has to undergo at least a three year trial in case there are long term effects. These vaccines have not been tested sufficiently yet people are going to allow their kids to be guinea pigs despite the troubling heart complications being seen. I have a couple of friend who are virologists and worked on the U.K.'s vaccine and they won't give it to their children.

No vaccine has ever had side effects show up after 6 week from administration.

 

[mmascari]

Why won't the government acknowledge that 'natural acquired' immunity is better than synthetic induced vaccination. People who have survived COVID do not need nor should they take the vaccine. This is not a 'one size fits all' and the Government is not listening to science.

What was the natural dose?
Was it mild or severe?
Did it really happen or just assume it was COVID and not something else?
Was that dose studied to understand if it was sufficient?
Was the variant of infection enough to elicit a broad response to other variants?

I don’t doubt some natural infections are good enough. But there are a lot of variables to just assume they’re all good. Getting the vaccine gives someone a controlled and standard dose with it’s studied response.

We don’t base policy on “might be good enough”, but on known responses.

 

[danlb_2000]

When Facebook removes any post as 'misinformation' that does not agree with the government line - we all know Dr Zuckerberg has extensive medical experience. Studies coming out now show the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine yet we were told this would kill people despite there not being a single death from it in sixty years. Studies show that the natural antibodies , Cleveland Clinic, acquired by people who recovered from COVID are stronger than those hopefully produced by the vaccines. If this was not the case then why were people who recovered asked to give plasma to treat COVID patients - successfully? I think we are seeing, unless we chooses not to, how political the CDC for example has become. It is now controlled by the teachers' union who do not want schools to re-open. I just wish people would research for themselves using multiple sources and just not accept what we are told - especially as tomorrow we will be told something completely different.

Can you point us to the studies you reference for hydroxychloroquine ?

 

[Jedijax719]

When Facebook removes any post as 'misinformation' that does not agree with the government line - we all know Dr Zuckerberg has extensive medical experience. Studies coming out now show the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine yet we were told this would kill people despite there not being a single death from it in sixty years. Studies show that the natural antibodies , Cleveland Clinic, acquired by people who recovered from COVID are stronger than those hopefully produced by the vaccines. If this was not the case then why were people who recovered asked to give plasma to treat COVID patients - successfully? I think we are seeing, unless we chooses not to, how political the CDC for example has become. It is now controlled by the teachers' union who do not want schools to re-open. I just wish people would research for themselves using multiple sources and just not accept what we are told - especially as tomorrow we will be told something completely different.

To answer one question-people who had COVID-19 were the ONLY ones known to possibly have antibodies before any vaccine was developed. In some cases, it was the only hope for some.

The HCQ issue is irrelevant to the vaccine discussion. We are comparing unproven treatment (anecdotal at best) to prevention. Do we want to be reactive or proactive? Remember, over 600K deaths in the USA alone.

As for the CDC and their supposed connection to teachers unions and the idea that teachers unions do not want schools to reopen, be careful not to spread such nonsense. I am not sure about the guidelines of posting false information here.

And finally, as for the effectiveness of antibodies produced naturally vs with vaccines. we just don't know for sure 100% if one is absolutely better than the other. Research finds that the more targeted and specific antibodies produced by the mRNA vaccines (which cause the body to make antibodies against the spikes) are more effective. For one, we're talking about two doses. For two, we're talking about a controlled dosage. Third, the vaccine has shown considerable prevention against Delta (not as high as the % against other strains, but still high). Over a period of time we will be able to see whether the immunity lasts and if memory remains.

As always, two of the biggest factors in all of this are (1) viral load and (2) whether the protein spikes on surfaces of variants change enough to render current vaccines useless. Right now, that is not the case at all.

 

[carolina_yankee]

With respect, the experts totally disagree with you.

ETA: My apologies. I reread your post, and it seems you’re referring to the current situation. I mistakenly thought you were talking about the pandemic as a whole. Still, many experts continue to caution against unnecessary travel and gatherings.

Yes, I definitely mean the current situation. I have no issues with the shutdown last year - at least in NJ.

I expect the experts to be cautious - and they are right, for maximum safety, but there are also economic concerns. Nobody is going to approve pay for the unemployed right now, so the practical emphasis has to be on how to be open safely. Personallay, I’m not going to Disney - mostly because I don’t want to pay premium dollars for a pandemic experience - but in a place like Florida where denial is high, I do have some safety concerns, too.

 

[Chomama]

Why won't the government acknowledge that 'natural acquired' immunity is better than synthetic induced vaccination. People who have survived COVID do not need nor should they take the vaccine. This is not a 'one size fits all' and the Government is not listening to science.

Unvaccinated More Than Twice as Likely to Get Covid-19 Again, CDC Says

A new study suggests vaccination cuts the risk of catching Covid-19 again by more than half.

www.wsj.com

 

[Figgy1]

What was the natural dose?
Was it mild or severe?
Did it really happen or just assume it was COVID and not something else?
Was that dose studied to understand if it was sufficient?
Was the variant of infection enough to elicit a broad response to other variants?

I don’t doubt some natural infections are good enough. But there are a lot of variables to just assume they’re all good. Getting the vaccine gives someone a controlled and standard dose with it’s studied response.

We don’t base policy on “might be good enough”, but on known responses.

Gets back to me having the chicken pox more than once and I still got the shot. No way I want that again even though I "lucked" out and had mild cases

 

[Chomama]

Gets back to me having the chicken pox more than once and I still got the shot. No way I want that again even though I "lucked" out and had mild cases

Seriously. Chicken pox was awful. I’m so glad my kids haven’t had to suffer through that

 

[carolina_yankee]

I just wish people would research for themselves using multiple sources and just not accept what we are told - especially as tomorrow we will be told something completely different.

I’ve come to the point where I don’t think people should research and read for themselves. While anybody can find a study, it takes expertise to know whether or not it’s a good study, it’s relevant to the topic, or if it’s been superseded (or contradicted) by another study.

The problem is everybody thinks they are an expert because they read a study. One should always ask questions, but at the end of the day, the experts are the experts. And yes, sometimes information changes when you’re dealing with something novel, like a novel coronavirus.

 

[Rumrunner]

Please stop spewing this nonsense. This attitude is prolonging the pandemic and causing real harm to people.

Yea whatever we do we do not want anyone with a different opinion posting on this site. His post did nothing to prolong the pandemic. In case you haven't noticed this pandemic will never be over-after the Delta variant, there will be another variant.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Yea whatever we do we do not want anyone with a different opinion posting on this site. His post did nothing to prolong the pandemic. In case you haven't noticed this pandemic will never be over-after the Delta variant, there will be another variant.

Could booster vaccines can stop future variants too? Like we WILL end the pandemic with vaccines and booster ones, therapist.

 

[Chomama]

Could booster vaccines can stop future variants too? Like we WILL end the pandemic with vaccines and booster ones, therapist.

Not if enough people don’t take them. And not just here in the US. To end the pandemic we need to vaccinate the world. We are on our way but need to move faster in low-income and developing countries

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Yep and of course while it was suggested to parents, people debated the merits of vaccination because "nobody died of chicken pox" so maybe some your age also had parents hesitate. Even some of my friends with teens and young adults like you, questioned the need much like covid now. Some asked me what I planned to do with my son. It was never a question in my house

By the time I got to college I know it was required. I had an exemption for it because I was supposed to get a booster and my doctor was like, "nope".

 

[LittleBuford]

He is often quoted out of context. Also he says don't believe him, do your own research and and draw an informed conclusion.

I actually found the article he was referring to:

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens - PMC

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And here is a scientist's response to the idea that "leaky" vaccines will make the virus worse:

Addressing Geert Vanden Bossche’s Claims — Deplatform Disease

The short version : Geert Vanden Bossche has recently published a letter in which he argues that the vaccination campaign against COVID-19 is going to precipitate a public health disaster because the vaccines will select for viral variants that can escape their protection and drive them towards high

www.deplatformdisease.com

Also relevant:

The Doomsday Prophecy of Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, a Belgian virus expert, has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.A Belgian virus expert has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.

www.mcgill.ca

 

[DisneyFan32]

I actually found the article he was referring to:

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens - PMC

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And here is a scientist's response to the idea that "leaky" vaccines will make the virus worse:

Addressing Geert Vanden Bossche’s Claims — Deplatform Disease

The short version : Geert Vanden Bossche has recently published a letter in which he argues that the vaccination campaign against COVID-19 is going to precipitate a public health disaster because the vaccines will select for viral variants that can escape their protection and drive them towards high

www.deplatformdisease.com

Also relevant:

The Doomsday Prophecy of Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, a Belgian virus expert, has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.A Belgian virus expert has scared the Internet by claiming the COVID-19 vaccines will doom humanity. No need to panic.

www.mcgill.ca

I'm scared of this.