Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[correcaminos]

Pfizer loses 3% effectiveness per month according to their own 6 month Phase 3 trial analysis ( see preliminary study results I linked about a week ago).

Moderna reported yesterday ( See link I had in an earlier message today) in their Q2 presentation that their 6 month analysis of their Phase 3 trial showed a 1% decline per month.

Different is 1% vs 3% decline . Therefore 3X different in their decline rate.

What factors may influence that are definitely debatable. But where Pfizer is being used now vs Moderna only effects clinical results. The Phase 3 trials tried to remove many factors ( when placebo was in effect). Pfizer’s Phase 3 did include parts of Europe and Turkey. It did not include Israel from my recollection.

Neither analysis includes the more recent Delta on effectiveness.

Not quite apples to apples. Moderna stated 4-6 for that range not flat out 6 months per articles I read. Pfizer did include S Africa as well as S. America which also had their own variants in play. I still doubt one is better than the other given technology.

 

[danlb_2000]

I'm asking for some good advice and please, I don't need any ridicule and I'm respectfully asking you all here. I have a long planned vacation coming up in the middle of October and honestly, I'm deeply concerned here on whether to cancel or not. My family is all vaccinated and has been for quite some time, but there's always the chance of getting sick. The recent numbers are concerning.

I looked at my flights and I'll only get a partial credit, as I upgraded later after the initial booking and it's not showing the full amount if I cancel the flight. I'm on the fence here and I'm at a loss at what to do. Should I hold out a couple more weeks to see if the numbers go down? It's a long wait trying to get someone on the phone at Disney and United Airlines and still no human contact as of yet. I'd appreciate any sound, reasonable advice. Thank you.

As someone replied, it's really up to your level of risk tolerance. I had been hoping to do an October trip but didn't get as far as actually booking it, and have no plans to do it now. I will probably wait to see if things look in February or March.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Anyone not getting vaccinated is part of the problem..... for other people who aren't getting vaccinated. So... who cares?

Some here keep saying this, ignoring the fact that the impact on healthcare systems is to everyone’s detriment. ICU beds are a finite resource.

Plus there are people who can't get vaccinated. Plus sometimes we care about the health of people, even those people making stupid and selfish decisions.

Plus the fact that it's easy to say "it's their problem" when it comes to unvaccinated people when you're writing in a discussion forum, but the real world isn't so simple. In many cases, the government then has to continue with restrictions because they have more of an obligation to the general public. As a result, these people have delayed the return to normal for everyone.

As much as I think masks are a minor inconvenience, many people hate them with a passion to the point they feel their visit to WDW is compromised or ruined. That's the fault of the unvaccinated.

 

[correcaminos]

I'm asking for some good advice and please, I don't need any ridicule and I'm respectfully asking you all here. I have a long planned vacation coming up in the middle of October and honestly, I'm deeply concerned here on whether to cancel or not. My family is all vaccinated and has been for quite some time, but there's always the chance of getting sick. The recent numbers are concerning.

I looked at my flights and I'll only get a partial credit, as I upgraded later after the initial booking and it's not showing the full amount if I cancel the flight. I'm on the fence here and I'm at a loss at what to do. Should I hold out a couple more weeks to see if the numbers go down? It's a long wait trying to get someone on the phone at Disney and United Airlines and still no human contact as of yet. I'd appreciate any sound, reasonable advice. Thank you.

Personally I'd go in your case. I'm gambling on the idea that surges will be on the downswing though.

Why are you having to pay for tests? Surely for greater accuracy of numbers infected or not, hopefully because they are vaccinated, testing should be easily accessible and free of charge?

Welcome to U$A

I have a trip mid October as well. My wife and I are vaccinated but not the 6 or 4 year old. I'm a little worried about them. Not sure what to do.

With little ones I'd mask up and enjoy likely. Unless one is high risk. Edit: again on a guess that Oct will be better

 

[DCBaker]

More good news -

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I have a trip mid October as well. My wife and I are vaccinated but not the 6 or 4 year old. I'm a little worried about them. Not sure what to do.

I'm also unvaccinated (for medical reasons). As I stated above, I've been four times to WDW without issue. Mask wearing is the #1 thing you can do (including yourself and your wife). When you seat yourselves on attraction, try to put your kids next to yourselves and not next to strangers (should be easy since you're a group of four). And then of course, like I stated above, eat outside at QS locations when possible. I think that it will likely be better by October.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Anyone not getting vaccinated is part of the problem..... for other people who aren't getting vaccinated. So... who cares?

Everyone should. First, unvaccinated spread cases to others, extending the duration of the pandemic for everyone. Or should that not be a concern?

Second— to use as an example, the nursing home my elderly mother in law lives in. Unvaccinated workers have caused repeated lockdowns throughout the pandemic. Relatives cannot visit their loved ones. In the case of my in-laws, this additional stress (on top of the existing stress of trying to care for and/or even visit to ensure the health of my mother in law who has Alzheimer’s) has caused physical and mental issues for my father in law.

The latest lockdown is due to an outbreak of COVID— caused by callous and selfish employees who refuse to vaccinate.

Vaccinated but still frail and elderly residents were all forced to move from their existing rooms into an isolation ward at the home. Unvaccinated who tested positive are all now hospitalized. This would normally place a strain on hospital staff and resources, but as we’ve learned from other posters here, COVID wards are apparently completely separate from existing hospital resources and somehow magically appear whenever needed, fully staffed and ready to go.

So to conclude, with the exception of the aforementioned magically appearing COVID wards, people able to receive the vaccine but who refuse are doing much more harm than simply spreading the virus to other unvaccinated folks. They continue to exist as a vector for the virus to spread, prolonging the pandemic and causing real physical, mental, emotional and economic harm to everyone, vaccinated or not.

A “personal choice” not to receive the vaccine is a selfish act which hurts everyone. A lesson we should already know but one that we must instill in everyone if we are ever going to escape from this quagmire.

(Edited to fix numerous typos and other errors. Must be the weather today.)

 

[Andrew C]

 

[Disney Experience]

Not quite apples to apples. Moderna stated 4-6 for that range not flat out 6 months per articles I read. Pfizer did include S Africa as well as S. America which also had their own variants in play. I still doubt one is better than the other given technology.

Both Pfizer and Moderna analysis is for what they call 6 months, so they group the ones vaccinated the longest in the 4-6 months period.

Their confidence index is lower the farther out one looks because the number of subjects that were at 4-6 months post second shot at data cutoff is less than the number of subjects who are at least 2 months out.

Pfizer and Moderna are both MRNA, slight different design based of the spike. But my wife two days ago was told that perhaps why she did not get covid while nursing me through mine and having the same earlier exposures is that the amount of MRNA in a Moderna shot is much higher than in the Pfizer shot. So there are differences.

 

[Disney Experience]

Not quite apples to apples. Moderna stated 4-6 for that range not flat out 6 months per articles I read. Pfizer did include S Africa as well as S. America which also had their own variants in play. I still doubt one is better than the other given technology.

But there are differences between Pfizer and Moderna

From stat news:

Each dose of Pfizer’s contains 30 micrograms of vaccine. Moderna went with a much larger dose of vaccine, 100 micrograms. It means the company is using a little more than three times as much vaccine per person as Pfizer is.

Interesting “coincidence” . Correlation is not necessarily causation. But interesting.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Anyone not getting vaccinated is part of the problem..... for other people who aren't getting vaccinated. So... who cares?

I’m sure the people in agony who had their surgery delayed care.

COVID ICU beds are completely isolated from other ICU uses.

You should tell AdventHealth.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I'm asking for some good advice and please, I don't need any ridicule and I'm respectfully asking you all here. I have a long planned vacation coming up in the middle of October and honestly, I'm deeply concerned here on whether to cancel or not. My family is all vaccinated and has been for quite some time, but there's always the chance of getting sick. The recent numbers are concerning.

I looked at my flights and I'll only get a partial credit, as I upgraded later after the initial booking and it's not showing the full amount if I cancel the flight. I'm on the fence here and I'm at a loss at what to do. Should I hold out a couple more weeks to see if the numbers go down? It's a long wait trying to get someone on the phone at Disney and United Airlines and still no human contact as of yet. I'd appreciate any sound, reasonable advice. Thank you.

In your case, don’t go. Look, give me a call.. let me get your reservation info and go scout the place out for the week. I’ll let you know what’s going on and keep you abreast of the situation. Let me worry about this trip and not you.

I’m kidding.. your vaccinated and so are your travel companions. Masks indoors will suck but it’s better then indoor and outdoor like I had in April. If everyone is comfortable, and only you can answer that, enjoy!

 

[correcaminos]

But there are difference between Pfizer and Moderna

From stat news:

Interesting “coincidence” . Correlation is not necessarily causation. But interesting.

I think you assume Moderna is better because your spouse didn't get sick and you did. So you assume different things than I do or are looking for reasons why your spouse did not get sick. I can tell you I know equal for each of yes and nos for breakthrough cases in same house. Again S, Africa and S. America had different variants too. Not apples and apples.

My thoughts remain. Not long ago Pfizer-BioNTech said good at 6 months. Now Moderna says same up to 6 months. I think we'll see similar in the end. But it's a guess based on what I've read over the course of time....

Quarter-dose of Moderna COVID vaccine still rouses a big immune response

Using only one-quarter of the usual amount of Moderna’s vaccine in each of two jabs triggers lasting production of antibodies and T cells.

www.nature.com

Why the dose for Pfizer-BioNTech was picked https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2639-4

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

When it comes to "not caring" about those choosing not to get vaccinated, it's also worth noting that many of these people are leaving behind families and children.

Every day there's a new article about someone who got COVID and expressed regret at not getting vaccinated before they died.

Am I overflowing with sympathy for these individuals? I am not. I'm also not completely heartless. I also feel for the kids who no longer have a mother or father, through no choice of their own.

 

[Lilofan]

my hospital converted our cafeteria to pods to hold covid patients when we had a high number of patients. other units around the entire hospital had rooms converted to negative pressure to hold covid patients as well. it was something i hope we don’t have to see again.

One of my fellow gym rats that I work out with owns several Indian restaurants. When a local hospital last year was overrun with patients and many areas of the hospital were turned into covid wards, he wanted to do something to help out the hard working staff. He sent complimentary 400 boxed Indian lunches to the hospital one day for them. Each lunchbox had his restaurants business cards and locations. In the next several months he saw an uptick in his business.

 

[Flugell]

One of my fellow gym rats that I work out with owns several Indian restaurants. When a local hospital last year was overrun with patients and many areas of the hospital were turned into covid wards, he wanted to do something to help out the hard working staff. He sent complimentary 400 boxed Indian lunches to the hospital one day for them. Each lunchbox had his restaurants business cards and locations. In the next several months he saw an uptick in his business.

A very rare occurrence in the world of COVID-19- a win - win situation!

 

[GoofGoof]

I think you assume Moderna is better because your spouse didn't get sick and you did. So you assume different things than I do or are looking for reasons why your spouse did not get sick. I can tell you I know equal for each of yes and nos for breakthrough cases in same house. Again S, Africa and S. America had different variants too. Not apples and apples.

My thoughts remain. Not long ago Pfizer-BioNTech said good at 6 months. Now Moderna says same up to 6 months. I think we'll see similar in the end. But it's a guess based on what I've read over the course of time....

Quarter-dose of Moderna COVID vaccine still rouses a big immune response

Using only one-quarter of the usual amount of Moderna’s vaccine in each of two jabs triggers lasting production of antibodies and T cells.

www.nature.com

I think Moderna is clearly the better vaccine

Spoiler: Click here for why

Because it’s the one I got

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[dreday3]

I think Moderna is clearly the better vaccine

Spoiler: Click here for why

Because it’s the one I got

---

I concur.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Finally! Florida education officials are holding an emergency meeting to deal with the COVID crisis! Stepping up to protect our children from the scourge of...

mask mandates.

By offering private school vouchers.

School vouchers to avoid mask rules? Florida education officials are considering it

The State Board of Education will hold an emergency meeting Friday to discuss it.

www.tampabay.com

 

[correcaminos]

I think Moderna is clearly the better vaccine

Spoiler: Click here for why

Because it’s the one I got

---

Does that mean my husband is superior?