Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[CaptainAmerica]

Yep

We're not entirely there yet with vaccines though to say vulnerable populations are vaccinated. We are getting there. But it's a fallacy to think we've gotten them all. Offering free ride share to get to vaccines will help. Offering paid time off will help. Doing mobile clinics will help. All of those are newer ideas and I'm cool with giving it some time and keep masking kids.

Kids with mild symptoms were the issue in most cases I knew. The whole pre-symptomatic idea is still fuzzy to me too.

But once we knew for sure it wasn't much about the kids (nearly identical numbers on average for flu and covid) it was about protecting others. I'm okay with that.

The people who need to be bussed to a vaccination site are unlikely to encounter a boogery six year old in line for Splash Mountain.

 

[GaBoy]

Covid is an ever evolving thing. Some people here have been rather nasty about views that change. Or even if you don't agree with them. If people decide that kids shouldn't mask, then okay, I'm good. Having an older child, I can easily say "a few more weeks and no masks" and know they get it. A few more weeks isn't going to hurt him. Wearing one on the plane won't either. But I plan to wait even a week and a half now so good immunity builds up to protect others like family whom were just given the green light for their shots while undergoing cancer treatments to protect them, not my kid.

The whole mask debate is something I'm totally over. Want to wear one? Fine. Don't? I won't say a word if mandates aren't in place. I don't even care that people break the rules much anymore as long as they respect others.

This whole pandemic has proved though that respect and caring for others is massively lacking.

I see the guidelines yesterday as a signal too that the messaging is changing. It is shifting away from "mask to protect others" toward "mask to protect yourself". However, the primary message was "get vaccinated" and I do believe that it will push some. I am probably just optimistic.

 

[rnese]

Masks were to be worn in the event you were in a situation when you couldn't social distance and to stop droplets from projected from coughing, sneezing, or passionate speaking (we all know one or two of those. I'm Italian, so I've got a bunch in my family). The hospitals aren't being overwhelmed. The hospitals WON'T be overwhelmed. Anyone who wants the vaccine either has it already or can easily get it at this point. Science says it's effective. If you still want to wear a mask, please continue to do so. To continue a mask mandate...14 months into this...with all we have and all we know...is nothing but symbolism, not science. Masks should be optional to the individual.

 

[Heppenheimer]

One thing that I hopes dies with this pandemic. Using the phrase "that's a fact" for situations that are... not exactly as crystal clear as they think. It's become the new "literally", in that people use it to mean "This is my very strongly felt opinion" or "This is my very strongly held opinion based on my non-expert and probably very biased assessment of the situation."

Quite literally, many of these things are not, in fact, facts.

 

[correcaminos]

The people who need to be bussed to a vaccination site are unlikely to encounter a boogery six year old in line for Splash Mountain.

Maybe, but they could in a local store or on public transportation. People suck so hard with taking sick kids places. Some out of "necessity" but others are just inconsiderate jerks.

I see the guidelines yesterday as a signal too that the messaging is changing. It is shifting away from "mask to protect others" toward "mask to protect yourself". However, the primary message was "get vaccinated" and I do believe that it will push some. I am probably just optimistic.

This is a necessary shift to do. It will make some uncomfortable but we have to start making changes at some point. We also need to entice people to vaccinate.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Maybe, but they could in a local store or on public transportation. People suck so hard with taking sick kids places. Some out of "necessity" but others are just inconsiderate jerks.

This is a necessary shift to do. It will make some uncomfortable but we have to start making changes at some point.

Yeah that's a problem that goes way beyond the pandemic or kids. Everytime I see someone stressing the importance of washing your hands or staying home from work when you're sick, I'm thinking "uhh... you guys just started doing that in March 2020?"

 

[ImperfectPixie]

One thing that I hopes dies with this pandemic. Using the phrase "that's a fact" for situations that are... not exactly as crystal clear as they think. It's become the new "literally", in that people use it to mean "This is my very strongly felt opinion" or "This is my very strongly held opinion based on my non-expert and probably very biased assessment of the situation."

Quite literally, many of these things are not, in fact, facts.

OMG...the misuse of the word "fact". Makes my head explode.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Yeah that's a problem that goes way beyond the pandemic or kids. Everytime I see someone stressing the importance of washing your hands or staying home from work when you're sick, I'm thinking "uhh... you guys just started doing that in March 2020?"

There are a significant number of employers who penalize people for calling in sick.

 

[carolina_yankee]

I’d frame it differently.

Either hundreds of epidemiologists who took the NYT survey are wrong or the CDC is wrong.

Since I’m a “follow the science” kinda guy and since the CDC is a government agency which, by its nature, means that it’s at least partially political, I’m leaning towards the epidemiologists being right.

We all understand the issue here. It’s not that the vaccinated are at risk, it’s that any public place that decides to use the honor system to let those vaccinated go maskless indoors is going to get taken advantage of by those who haven’t been fully vaccinated.

One way or another, someone is going to be proven right and someone is going to be proven wrong.

Someone care to add a popcorn chewing meme?

I don't think it's about the epidemiologists or the CDC being right or wrong. They are going about this differently.

The poll assumes a uniform policy. IN that sense, I can understand epidemiologists expecting mask wearing for a longer period of time because the rate of vaccinations are declining and because some of the population can't get vaccinated yet. There is also the world situation to consider. It will be well into 2022 or 2023 before most of the world is vaccinated. If travel is to open, epidemiologists assume caution so masking.

Taking politics out of it (though I'm certain it's there to an extent) the CDC is responding to the strength of the vaccines in the US. I do believe, that with Pfizer-BionTech and Moderna, they are right. It is *safe* for a vaccinated person to go maskless. The risk of severe disease and death are extremely low (not non-existent, but certainly lower than many other risks we approach without masks).

The problem with the CDC position is that is totally about the science and nothing about the policy (implementing). I suspect the politics is "The science says it's safe. We need people vaccinated. Let's do this quickly as an incentive." And, in true political fashion, nobody thought about how.

And, as always, people are free to wear masks if they feel the need. The struggle for me is that I am in a state with mask mandates and a diocese with mask mandates and a congregation that may not understand I can't (and they certainly can't) change the rules on a dime, so I'm putting out boxes of extra masks on Sunday for anybody who thinks they are "free at last!"

 

[DisneyFan32]

Mask-wearing update in NY, NJ and CT: What to know

NY and NJ are not rushing to change mask-wearing policies after the CDC issued new guidance. But it's a different story in Connecticut.

abc7ny.com

I hope NJ, NY and CT will change their minds by this week, next week, end of this month or next month....I don't want to wear mask in NJ anymore.

‘We’re trying to keep people healthy.’ Gov. Murphy says mask mandate to remain for now

Gov. Phil Murphy and state health officials say that they are not fully on board with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s recommendation that people who are fully vaccinated can take off their face mask.

newjersey.news12.com

 

[LaughingGravy]

Good for your kid, but the current CDC guidelines are wrong. They're not based on science.

The fact is, and has always been since the start of the pandemic, that COVID-19 is lower-risk to children than the flu. That's a fact. That's the science. Kids should have *never* been subject to mask mandates.

If you want to keep masking your kid until Kingdom come, go for it. I'm talking about dropping MANDATES, not banning masks.

If you say Covid -19 is a lower risk to children, do you mean their risk of being sick, or their ability to spread it?
If they catch it, say in school or playing with friends with no masks, and say, it's April or June of last year, or even now, they come home and give it to unvaccinated adults, and those adults get sick, that's the scenario of why they should wear masks and distance to mitigate that spread.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Mask-wearing update in NY, NJ and CT: What to know

NY and NJ are not rushing to change mask-wearing policies after the CDC issued new guidance. But it's a different story in Connecticut.

abc7ny.com

I hope NJ, NY and CT will change their minds by this week, next week, end of this month or next month....I don't want to wear mask in NJ anymore.

‘We’re trying to keep people healthy.’ Gov. Murphy says mask mandate to remain for now

Gov. Phil Murphy and state health officials say that they are not fully on board with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s recommendation that people who are fully vaccinated can take off their face mask.

newjersey.news12.com

Have more people vaccinated, 70% of the population or more, not just adults, of all available ages, and see the numbers consistently go down, and I'm sure mask mandates will be removed in NJ.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If you say Covid -19 is a lower risk to children, do you mean their rick of being sick, or their ability to spread it?
If they catch it, say in school or playing with friends with no masks, and say, it's April or June of last year, or even now, they come home and give it to unvaccinated adults, and those adults get sick, that's the scenario of why they should wear masks and distance to mitigate that spread.

Right right, see my follow up post.

Masking kids was to protect others. The "others" are now largely vaccinated.

 

[bryanfze55]

If you say Covid -19 is a lower risk to children, do you mean their rick of being sick, or their ability to spread it?
If they catch it, say in school or playing with friends with no masks, and say, it's April or June of last year, or even now, they come home and give it to unvaccinated adults, and those adults get sick, that's the scenario of why they should wear masks and distance to mitigate that spread.

The science has shown that, generally, kids don’t spread it. Of course they can, but it’s rare. Extra caution is fine. But if one doesn’t believe that, they’re not following the science. I am quickly approaching the point where I won’t make my 7-year-old wear a mask indoors, because there should be no unvaccinated adults soon. Adults who choose to remain unvaccinated can deal with the consequences.

 

[drizgirl]

Right right, see my follow up post.

Masking kids was to protect others. The "others" are now largely vaccinated.

Or at least able to be. So time for the paradigm to shift.

 

[correcaminos]

The science has shown that, generally, kids don’t spread it. Of course they can, but it’s rare. Extra caution is fine. But if one doesn’t believe that, they’re not following the science. I am quickly approaching the point where I won’t make my 7-year-old wear a mask indoors, because there should be no unvaccinated adults soon. Adults who choose to remain unvaccinated can deal with the consequences.

The adults I feel for are the ones who cannot vaccinate or do not produce antibodies. But soon enough, we hopefully can reach those whom have issues getting a vaccine due to logistics to not worry about most.

Yeah that's a problem that goes way beyond the pandemic or kids. Everytime I see someone stressing the importance of washing your hands or staying home from work when you're sick, I'm thinking "uhh... you guys just started doing that in March 2020?"

Outside of those penalized for taking time off, I agree. I'm a total ickaphobe. Like the idea of eating after touching dirty hand rails just grosses me out. Not for germs (I did not own hand sanitizer 15 months ago), but for what gross thing is there, so I'm always washing hands!

There are a significant number of employers who penalize people for calling in sick.

Yep, and this needs to change.

 

[AmesTARDIS]

We could have if we were aggressive enough, but we chose not to be.

Given human nature, I doubt this is true. Lots of people in this country were out of their homes and with others at the height of the lockdown. And, even if we had reduced what we called "essential" workers and jobs to the barest of necessities, there still would have been millions of people who were exposed on a daily basis. BUT- I will add, that I think numbers could have been a lot lower.

 

[JD80]

Love these updates.

One thing for sure though, I think I'll be wearing a mask for the rest of my life in places like airports/planes.

 

[AmesTARDIS]

The CDC needs to do nothing! Seriously they advise, not create policy.

An important point of distinction that is largely misunderstood.

 

[havoc315]

We are now entering the phase where we are hurt by not implementing vaccine passports.

We have enough people vaccinated, that the CDC correctly is saying that vaccinated people can drop almost all mitigation.
But we have absolutely no system in place for selective enforcement of mitigation.

Here are the problems:
There are people who are both over-estimating and under-estimating the danger of Covid to vaccinated people.
Fact is, vaccination DRASTICALLY reduces your chances of getting Covid. But much like a seatbelt drastically reduces you chances of serious injury in an automobile accident, if you drive recklessly at 120mph, you still are putting yourself in mortal danger.
If there is very little Covid around AND you are vaccinated, then the odds you will contract Covid is exceptionally low. That's a combination of the protection from the vaccine and the infrequency of contact with Covid.
But, even if you are vaccinated, if you are in a poorly ventilated room filled with Covid positive people... every single day... then even with vaccination, you are at pretty real risk.
Thus, it is a fallacy to say that "only unvaccinated people are at risk." And if Covid spikes to high numbers, then there is so much Covid around, that even vaccinated people are still at a real risk.

The solution of course -- vaccine passports. If you're vaccinated and around other vaccinated people, it is exceptionally safe.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb has been an intelligent calm voice for the last year, but I think he is dead wrong on this one thing: He thinks the new rules will drive people to get vaccinated because unvaccinated people will be "honest" and they will voluntarily keep wearing a mask until they get vaccinated. He believes they will go get vaccinated because they want to take off their mask and don't want to "lie" about being vaccinated.

But, it's not a question about "honesty." Without passports, under the new guidance, nobody is asking whether you're vaccinated or not. It's a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. An unvaccinated person can (and will) remove their mask whether they are vaccinated or not. It won't feel "dishonest" to them, because nobody is going to ask them if they are vaccinated. And if someone does ask, I'm sure they will honestly reply, "I'm not vaccinated, but I'm choosing not to wear a mask."
I've seen some people express concern that if we simply used CDC cards as passports, you'd get people forging the CDC cards: I'm sure there would be some of that. But this is where most people would be honest. Most people aren't going to forge CDC cards.

Some enforcement of the new guidance would indeed increase vaccination. It would also allow vaccinated people to feel safer -- to know that everyone in the theater/restaurant/theme park/stadium is also vaccinated.

But the people who will "voluntarily" follow CDC guidance have already gotten vaccinated -- because that was the CDC guidance.
If they have ignored the CDC guidance to get vaccinated, why would they now start following the CDC guidance to wear a mask until they are vaccinated?

I suspect that we will be ok nationally, but this new guidance will slow down our Covid decline a bit. There is the worst case scenario, that we see more isolated spikes on local levels as mitigation gets shed in low vaccination areas.