Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ImperfectPixie]

Do you think we really need herd immunity to get society back? Can't Covid just turn endemic and become another background threat we all learn to deal with? That makes more sense then trying to eradicate a virus before we can go to a Broadway show again, or get people back to offices and work and rebuild those micro-economies. Or maybe I am nuts.

If I'm not mistaken, it takes a looong time for that to happen...which is part of the problem with a novel virus.

 

[Jrb1979]

So no then? You can't explain it or prove it because you "know better".

It's the elitist attitude like that which creates skepticism.

There is no difference between Walmart and "mom and pop" in regards to spread. The reason they closed them, at least in Canada, was to try to limit people going out as much as possible.

Right now in Ontario only essential businesses are allowed open. Everything else is curbside and Walmart and Costco can only sell essential items, everything else is blocked off. Since they put that in place most people aren't out shopping. Most of the time people were just browsing as they were bored.

 

[monothingie]

I have neither the time nor inclination to go on some google goose chase to satisfy questioning that amounts to chasing at windmills.

So you can't support your assertion. The only thing you can say is "I'm right and you're wrong".

 

[FormerMember]

I’m fully vaccinated and have started going out more, but I do still take precautions because no vaccine is 100%.

True! Nothing in life is 100%.

 

[mmascari]

Do you think we really need herd immunity to get society back? Can't Covid just turn endemic and become another background threat we all learn to deal with? That makes more sense then trying to eradicate a virus before we can go to a Broadway show again, or get people back to offices and work and rebuild those micro-economies. Or maybe I am nuts.

Other than @havoc315 nobody else here has said we need to eradicate it. Everyone has proposed some level of continued impact. Most seem to be somewhere just around the same yearly impacts of automobile accidents and the flu (pre 2020). There's a couple who are fine with significantly larger ongoing impacts.

I mean, I think we would all like eradicate, but most of us would settle for something less than that.

 

[SorcererMC]

So you can't support your assertion. The only thing you can say is "I'm right and you're wrong".

It's almost May 2021. I really can't help anyone who hasn't bothered to understand the basic nature of viruses and contagion at this point when it's been covered 24/7.

 

[Nubs70]

That's not arbitrary. It's based on the known viral-host dynamics of transmission and how people are likely to interact within certain spaces and the size of that space.

If a big box store can limit customers in the building , so can a mom & pop store. If Home depot can have 150 people in store a mom and pop can have 5. The fact that the state ruled Home Depot can have 150 and a mom and pop zero is arbitrary.

 

[FormerMember]

Other than @havoc315 nobody else here has said we need to eradicate it. Everyone has proposed some level of continued impact. Most seem to be somewhere just around the same yearly impacts of automobile accidents and the flu (pre 2020). There's a couple who are fine with significantly larger ongoing impacts.

I mean, I think we would all like eradicate, but most of us would settle for something less than that.

Essentially, herd immunity is eradication. I saw a very smart reasonable take. Once hospitalizations are at or below normal flu levels, any and all restrictions disappear.

For me, I would say, once you are vaccinated you are free of any and all restrictions. But I would take the Monica Ghandi plan as well.

 

[danlb_2000]

Arbitrarty Restriction example: Home Depot and Walmart can open, but Mom and Pop hardware store can't.

Should I mention houses of worship???

I am not aware of any state where that was a restriction. Business restrictions were based on the products the store sold, not on it's side. NJ had pretty strict lockdown rules early on, but we had both large supermarkets and home improvement stores as well mom-and-pop convience and hardware stores open.

 

[Jrb1979]

If a big box store can limit customers in the building , so can a mom & pop store. If Home depot can have 150 people in store a mom and pop can have 5. The fact that the state ruled Home Depot can have 150 and a mom and pop zero is arbitrary.

If mom & pop sold groceries were allowed to stay open.

 

[danlb_2000]

If a big box store can limit customers in the building , so can a mom & pop store. If Home depot can have 150 people in store a mom and pop can have 5. The fact that the state ruled Home Depot can have 150 and a mom and pop zero is arbitrary.

Which state did this?

 

[SamusAranX]

Ah. Ok, you like work from home. Are you vaccinated? I know that's a personal question, but if you are, you shouldn't let those numbers overly concern you.

I am but much of the staff opted out so I am concerned for them and their families

 

[havoc315]

Other than @havoc315 nobody else here has said we need to eradicate it. Everyone has proposed some level of continued impact. Most seem to be somewhere just around the same yearly impacts of automobile accidents and the flu (pre 2020). There's a couple who are fine with significantly larger ongoing impacts.

I mean, I think we would all like eradicate, but most of us would settle for something less than that.

Many people are assuming it’s impossible to virtually eradicate a transmissible disease — Ignoring our accomplishments with polio, mumps, measles, etc...

And also ignoring, there is only a tiny difference between case reduction and virtual eradication. Israel has reached the “eradication“ level. So Israel has proven it is possible. I’m not actually asking for eradication — as long as it exists elsewhere in the world, it will transmit in pockets through immigration, trade, tourism, etc. I’m asking for herd immunity —- where a new case might be introduced, but it doesn’t expand into hundreds or thousands of new cases. Again, Israel has reached that point.

And the tiny difference is likely—- as an example — If you get 56% of people vaccinated (plus existing natural immunity), you get massive reduction in cases, but not quite herd immunity. Bump it up to 58% of people vaccinated... you’ll get to herd immunity.
That’s what happened in Israel. The exact numbers are just for demonstration. I don’t know if we will actually reach herd immunity at a 58% vaccination level. I am just saying it is absolutely totally possible, as proven in Israel. It just takes slightly more work than the “good enough“ point.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I am not aware of any state where that was a restriction. Business restrictions were based on the products the store sold, not on it's side. NJ had pretty strict lockdown rules early on, but we had both large supermarkets and home improvement stores as well mom-and-pop convience and hardware stores open.

We did too. The started out limiting to big stores, but shifted to include any store with essential items very quickly once they realized that some people rely on convenience stores.

 

[Jrb1979]

Essentially, herd immunity is eradication. I saw a very smart reasonable take. Once hospitalizations are at or below normal flu levels, any and all restrictions disappear.

For me, I would say, once you are vaccinated you are free of any and all restrictions. But I would take the Monica Ghandi plan as well.

That's the plan where I live. Get the majority vaccinated and once hospitalizations go down we can get back to normal.

 

[SorcererMC]

If a big box store can limit customers in the building , so can a mom & pop store. If Home depot can have 150 people in store a mom and pop can have 5. The fact that the state ruled Home Depot can have 150 and a mom and pop zero is arbitrary.

Big box stores are more likely to have self check-out, where no interaction is necessary. Only recently was it determined that fomite transmission, ie from surfaces, is not a major contributor to the spread.

 

[FormerMember]

Which state did this?

I think we are getting lost in the weeds here.

It's clear the restrictions were/are arbitrary. It's not a very controversial take.

 

[FormerMember]

That's the plan where I live. Get the majority vaccinated and once hospitalizations go down we can get back to normal.

You'll forgive me if I don't really agree with or approve of Ontario's handling of Covid.

 

[danlb_2000]

I think we are getting lost in the weeds here.

It's clear the restrictions were/are arbitrary. It's not a very controversial take.

That is not clear at all. People keep promoting the idea that they were arbitrary by citing examples that just didn't happen. Yes, there were some problematic restrictions here and there, but for the most part they were based on some specific criteria.

 

[monothingie]

I am not aware of any state where that was a restriction. Business restrictions were based on the products the store sold, not on it's side. NJ had pretty strict lockdown rules early on, but we had both large supermarkets and home improvement stores as well mom-and-pop convience and hardware stores open.

Correct, In NJ it was very short-lived and the governor reversed himself quite quickly. Initially only large box stores got exemptions, while mom and pop stores were unable to and had to close. I know at least 4 small shops in my neighborhood that were forced to closed due to an EO, when a comparable box store was not affected.