Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

Can I ask you a question...and please, Im not trying to be confrontational. Im trying to understand your mindset. I do realize that some people have different thresholds of risk when we talk about covid.

At what point do you see normalcy returning to our lives? Truth be told - as human beings, we were never meant to wear permanent masks or be non-social creatures that refused to get within 6 feet of each other. So at *some* point, we have to start pivoting back to normal. When is that for you? Also, whenever that is......do you feel that it's better that we gradually relax these measures - or just wake up one morning with a pronouncement that we're officially back to normal and no masks, no distancing and we're back to smelling each others armpits while waiting to squeeze into a bus back to our resorts?

...and again, Im not being confrontational. I just see this kind of mindset alot (especially here in NY)...where people are getting extremely uncomfortable at the slightest shift back to normal from masks and distancing and react strongly to it - even from people who are fully vaccinated.

At some point, we all need to turn the corner or we're doomed. How can we all come together and move beyond this?

This is a pretty good question. For me personally I’m a bit broken. It’s going to take me a little bit of time to get comfortable doing more stuff. I have been blessed with the ability to work from home since the start of this so I’ve been able to mostly avoid a lot of public contact. I imagine for people working outside the home every day and/or doing a lot more publicly the transition will be easier. Don’t get me wrong, I can’t wait to be able to go back to little things like eating out and sitting at the bar and drinking a draft beer, but I’m still not comfortable doing that now. I also can’t wait to get back to WDW and just traveling in general. I’m still not comfortable going to WDW today. I’m hoping by the Summer that changes but who knows.

I think for me I need to see cases come down a lot from where they are today before feeling comfortable. I have high confidence we will get there with the vaccines (in case anyone hadn’t figured that out already ). I think if I went to WDW today I’d be too uncomfortable to fully enjoy myself. I want to be able to go and not care if people are following these rules and rules are being enforced. I think we will get there soon.

 

[Nubs70]

I agree that each individual should do a risk assessment before undertaking any activity. The difficulty is that without relying on others to get vaccinated and take precautions such as mask wearing my personal risk assessment means I am condemned to remain isolated from the majority of humanity ad infinitum.

To personal isolation: if you absolutely want the absolute minimum risk possible, yes you'll would have to go full Howard Hughes. But there exists some acceptable mid point.

For example, an indoor/pub bar. I will not be found in an indoor bar/pub due to poor ventilation, close quarters, loud people. By contrast, an outdoor beer garden. All up for that. Good ventilation, not as close quarters, people not screaming to be heard over loud music.

Both contain a degree of risk but one is much less than the other.

 

[Chi84]

You mention both Disney and Universal, but only report on Disney. As someone who has been dozens of days post reopening at both places, Disney is much better with masks overall. Universal mask wearing is pretty much a free for all unless you walk by the person holding the mask sign. Even then they will just shout to someone who will ignore and keep walking.

Once people get into City Walk they immediately drop their masks and no one says anything. I've also seen some crazy packed chaotic areas such as the front of Mummy when it is only doing virtual queue. Disney absolutely does reinforce more consistently than Universal, and for the compliance is much higher in Disney too. Maybe you stumbled onto some bad luck, but Disney is much more strict than Universal and it's not even close.

Darn. I'm fully vaccinated and traveling to WDW in a couple of weeks. If we hadn't already put so much effort into Disney, this might have been the time to try Universal for the first time.

 

[JD80]

We have done this a million times and apologies to all who saw I posted this in another thread but it’s starting.. well not starting.. has been going down this road for weeks now. It fits.
How threads disolve sometimes into the same things then go back to the beginning.


Countdown to someone telling me this isn't Disney related.



Q: How many group members does it take to change a light bulb ?



1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed.



14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently.



7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.



17 purists who use candles and are offended by light bulb discussions.



6 to argue over whether it's 'lightbulb' or 'light bulb'.



Another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid.



22 to tell THOSE 6 to stop being jerks.



2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is 'lamp'.



15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that 'light bulb' is perfectly correct.



49 to post memes and gifs (several are of Michael Jackson eating popcorn with the words added, “I’m just here for the comments.”)



19 to post that this page is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a light bulb page.



11 to defend the posting to this page saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant here.



24 to discuss the merits of LED/swirly fluorescent light bulbs



44 to claim LED and fluorescent bulbs will kill you.



12 to post F.



8 to ask what F means.



7 to post 'Following' but there's 3 dots at the top right that means you don't have to.



3 to say "can't share"



2 to reply "can't share from a closed group"



36 People to post pics of their own light bulbs.



15 People to post "I can't see S$%^!" and use their own light bulbs.



6 to report the post or PM an admin because someone said "f÷×$"



4 to say "Didn't we go through this already a short time ago?".



13 to say "Do a search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs".



1 to bring politics into the discussion by adding that (insert politician of choice) isn't the brightest bulb. This usually takes place within the first three comments.



50 more to get into personal attacks over their political views.



5 admins to ban the light bulb posters who took it all too seriously.



1 late arrival to comment on the original post 6 months later and start it all over again.

Probably should lock the thread after this post.

10/10 would read again.

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

This pandemic could have come to a screeching stop in the US eight months ago if the idiot anti-maskers, anti-science and anti-common sense would have been stopped in their tracks.

This hasn’t happened anywhere outside of island nations which didn’t let anyone into the country. This hasn’t happened anywhere in the Western Hemisphere, Europe, or Asia. You can’t stop a virus in its tracks without a vaccine.

 

[DisneyFan32]

This is a pretty good question. For me personally I’m a bit broken. It’s going to take me a little bit of time to get comfortable doing more stuff. I have been blessed with the ability to work from home since the start of this so I’ve been able to mostly avoid a lot of public contact. I imagine for people working outside the home every day and/or doing a lot more publicly the transition will be easier. Don’t get me wrong, I can’t wait to be able to go back to little things like eating out and sitting at the bar and drinking a draft beer, but I’m still not comfortable doing that now. I also can’t wait to get back to WDW and just traveling in general. I’m still not comfortable going to WDW today. I’m hoping by the Summer that changes but who knows.

I think for me I need to see cases come down a lot from where they are today before feeling comfortable. I have high confidence we will get there with the vaccines (in case anyone hadn’t figured that out already ). I think if I went to WDW today I’d be too uncomfortable to fully enjoy myself. I want to be able to go and not care if people are following these rules and rules are being enforced. I think we will get there soon.

Are we gonna wear masks forever or not for years? Also can I can't wear masks during winter as masks and social distancing are gone for good? @GoofGoof

 

[GoofGoof]

If this activity is outside the comfort level of your risk assesment, remove yourself from the the risk area. Possibly shop at a less busy time or.do delivery if available.

As to the cashier, that is her own risk assesment. The cashier is responsible for herself.

If the cashier has to work that job to pay their bills then they can’t just say it’s too high risk so I’ll pass. That’s the flaw in this logic. Requiring customers to mask and distance protects the workers too.

 

[disneygeek90]

Darn. I'm fully vaccinated and traveling to WDW in a couple of weeks. If we hadn't already put so much effort into Disney, this might have been the time to try Universal for the first time.

Universal was awesome in June and July 2020. Now when I go, I typically don't show up until after 4.

 

[PirateFrank]

Sure you are, otherwise you wouldn't have asked on a post directly relating to Disney's policies.

Disney will change their mask policy when they feel it will benefit them. They've already relaxed it for pictures.

That's simply not true. You're assuming my intentions and nothing in post above was addressing or disagreeing with Disney's policies. I only asked the question because I saw the person I responded to as someone who might reasonably respond to my question. I asked my original question to understand the mindset - because some of us view the road back a bit differently. At some point WDW will have to relax the policy. How will some of us adjust to that return to normal? Heck, there are scores of people who flipped out when WDW relaxed the policy related to pictures. I'm hoping to constructively see both sides to understand how we can avoid conflict as these policies start to lift.

I can tell by some of your other posts you have zero intention of applying any level of empathy here or being reasonable with those that dont see your ideology. Quite honestly, you're part of the problem. So a suggestion - let's ignore each other.

 

[JD80]

Oh I agree....my question wasn't related to Disney's policies, but more so as an overall mindset - as I see the level of comfort of people who will complain about WDW's enforcement (or lack of) to be fairly aligned with their risk aversion related to covid.

That being said - I strongly suspect that when WDW does start relaxing mask requirements further, it will be preceded by a non-official relaxation of the policy (to test the reception/impact) before making it official and being subject to it.

As a society as a whole, it'll probably be when the level of infections are below a certain # of cases per day in conjunction with vaccination rates.

 

[Flugell]

To personal isolation: if you absolutely want the absolute minimum risk possible, yes you'll would have to go full Howard Hughes. But there exists some acceptable mid point.

For example, an indoor/pub bar. I will not be found in an indoor bar/pub due to poor ventilation, close quarters, loud people. By contrast, an outdoor beer garden. All up for that. Good ventilation, not as close quarters, people not screaming to be heard over loud music.

Both contain a degree of risk but one is much less than the other.

Sadly I don’t have that option. My husband is on incredibly strong immunosuppressant drugs for a rare skin condition, these drugs are also given to people who have had heart transplants. We have been warned to avoid mixing with people who have NOT been vaccinated, or tested negative within the previous 24 hours AT ALL COSTS. So no options for us without very high vaccination numbers or vaccine passports. This is despite the fact that we have had our first vaccination and are scheduled for our second soon. So, yes we are reliant on the consideration and compliance of others.

 

[HarperRose]

This hasn’t happened anywhere outside of island nations which didn’t let anyone into the country. This hasn’t happened anywhere in the Western Hemisphere, Europe, or Asia. You can’t stop a virus in its tracks without a vaccine.

I guess I shouldn't mention New Zealand or Australia (who did it without a vaccine). It could have been done in the US.

 

[Nubs70]

That's just it, it wasn't a risk area. The decisions of someone else to intrude on the area through no decision or action by the impacted person changed the assessment of the situation. Someone else took an action and imposed their conditions instead.

Instead of breathing, if this was spitting or not wearing pants and something, would that change the perception?

The risk area is the grocery store, amusement park or restaurant not just the specific area within the risk area. If you go to the grocery store etc.. plan for interaction with non compliant individuals. If there is a queue with a bunch of maskless, go to the line without the maskless or wait until the maskless move on.

 

[DisneyCane]

This pandemic could have come to a screeching stop in the US eight months ago if the idiot anti-maskers, anti-science and anti-common sense would have been stopped in their tracks.

That's a load of garbage. The only way the pandemic might have ended eight months ago is if the whole country went into a complete lockdown with almost no interaction between people of different households for at least six to eight weeks.

No "common sense" works that well to crush the spread and you give way too much credit to what masks can accomplish. Whatever level of reduction they provide is nowhere near 100%.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

If this activity is outside the comfort level of your risk assesment, remove yourself from the the risk area. Possibly shop at a less busy time or.do delivery if available.

As to the cashier, that is her own risk assesment. The cashier is responsible for herself.

If the person not wearing a mask doesn't like a store's (or government's) mask and distancing rules then they should act in their own self-interest and use online ordering. Otherwise, the next-best method of acting in their own self-interest is to follow the rules so they don't risk getting kicked out of the store.

And the cashier is most likely not in a position to just quit her job because a certain percentage of people want to act like a-holes out of a stubborn refusal to understand what is or isn't in the Constitution and a passive-aggressive pseudo-tough guy act because they think/know that a cashier or fellow customer won't want to start a confrontation (or secretly hope they WILL do exactly that so they can run home to Facebook and tell their friends how their rights were infringed upon at the Piggly Wiggly). So the cahsier is acting in her self-interest by not quitting and becoming homeless - and is doing so under the assumption that people will follow the rules in place. Otherwise, you may as well blame the victim of a drunk driving accident for not getting out of the way of the drunk guy going 90 mph northbound in the southbound lane. We can't expect drunk drivers to change their behavior for the best interest of others, right?

 

[Chi84]

I agree, but that's not really what I was asking. I want to know what will make people who are covid-risk averse to be comfortable with normalcy. Because, quite honestly - whenever we reach whatever that benchmark is (be it death rate, infection rate, % vaccinated) there will still be people who will be unhappy with the relaxation of mask and distancing guidelines. How are we going to be able to move past that emotional barrier? Thats what I want to know....

They will have to adjust - just like those who believe the current mitigation measures go too far have had to adjust. I suspect some people will continue to wear masks and practice some measure of social distancing even after those measures are dropped. Personally, I will probably have a mask available whenever I get on a plane in case I'm seated next to someone who is sneezing and coughing - never would have thought of it before all of this.

 

[PirateFrank]

They will have to adjust - just like those who believe the current mitigation measures go too far have had to adjust. I suspect some people will continue to wear masks and practice some measure of social distancing even after those measures are dropped. Personally, I will probably have a mask available whenever I get on a plane in case I'm seated next to someone who is sneezing and coughing - never would have thought of it before all of this.

lol good idea...maybe carry two. The second (a disposable?) for the person who's sneezing.

 

[Nubs70]

If the cashier has to work that job to pay their bills then they can’t just say it’s too high risk so I’ll pass. That’s the flaw in this logic. Requiring customers to mask and distance protects the workers too.

I did not say there should be no customer masking or distancing. The cashier can refuse the non masked customer based on unsafe work condition. There are plenty of workplace protection laws to back up the cashier.

 

[correcaminos]

Your physical state defines the probability of a negative outcome. Science has determined that obesity, and other conditions, increases the probability of negative outcome. Every individual needs to homestly assess their individual probability of negative outcome to plan and act accordingly. Do not rely on others to act in accordance with your probability.

If you are obese, hanging out in a bar for an hour has a higher probability of negative outcome than a non obese person. Although the non obese is not free from probability of negative outcome.

Well I'm not obese and I don't hang out in bars because I freaking cannot drink more than water with invisalign in

Yes I get the generic you. You still missed my point and why I'm tired of some saying what they are. It can be a factor, but it sure isn't the only one. It does sting when you lose loved ones who were perfectly fine before and not obese and they still died or struggling a year later.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I did not say there should be no customer masking or distancing. The cashier can refuse the non masked customer based on unsafe work condition. There are plenty of workplace protection laws to back up the cashier.

How does refusing to ring up the maskless person prevent the cashier from being exposed to that person if they're already there???