Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[SamusAranX]

You know who is not on that list?

Right now, based on outcome so far, the authoritarian and draconian, weld people in buildings, drag positive people out of their homes, make life intensely difficult for 2 months, and then move on, is holding up pretty well. Better than let the virus run wild.

For those who do think this is NOT a long term good thing, then there should be highly interested in pursuing alternatives that will outperform that strategy.

Why SHOULDN'T History(which will not be burdened by American early-21st century ideas) judge China's course of action as legitimate if they continue to outperform when it comes to deaths and economy?

This "do nothing," will be kind to China, not the US.

So one “good deed” negates the years of torture, genocide, persecution, economic discrimination, suppression of basic human rights, and millions upon millions of deaths that have come in the good name of the folks in the CCP?

 

[danlb_2000]

I think strong leadership could really help. Where are the trusted voices out there spreading a clear and consistent message while calling for unity, sacrifice, and perseverance while also modeling appropriate behavior and setting a good example?

Yes, that will help, but I think to much damage has already been done.

 

[hopemax]

So one “good deed” negates the years of torture, genocide, persecution, economic discrimination, suppression of basic human rights, and millions upon millions of deaths that have come in the good name of the folks in the CCP?

We have done the same, between Native Americans, slavery, and some would say the current racism. This is what I mean that History will be the judge without 21st Century ideas. We think we're the good guys. History may say otherwise. If we have pivoted to a better version of ourselves through history's lens, then China can do the same.

 

[danlb_2000]

I think it’s not necessarily the best to compare to EVERY country. And that goes both ways. If you compare the US to for example, any third world country, they will come out looking like gold just because of the economic differences and how they play into medical care access, educational awareness of safety measures, etc
It’s best to compare the US to other developed nations and see where they stand. Hint: not great, not the worst, but not where you ideally want to be

I agree. Maybe I am imaging a country that never existed, but I think there was a time that the US would have risen to a challenge like this and would have been the gold standard for how to handle it. That clearly didn't happen here.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Florida really said: HA good luck. dont catch covid. you're on your own.

Florida Legislature: Not our role to contain the coronavirus

In speeches before their mostly masked colleagues, both Wilton Simpson and Chris Sprowls acknowledged the pandemic that has taken the lives of more than 17,500 Floridians, but neither of them suggested the Legislature has any role to address it.

www.tampabay.com

 

[Kevin_W]

Have you never had homemade with orange?

I don't like oranges either (I'm weird - I don't/can't eat fruit), so no!

 

[mmascari]

Yes there are other ways to get it under control, but the people in the US at least don't seem to have the will to take those approaches. As things stand now, a vaccine is the only reasonable way out of this.

Technically not "nothing", many places did all the short term stuff, but the long term replacements never happened. Things that had they been done and nationally driven, places that didn't have to do short term stuff the first time could have leveraged now that they're failing. Instead, they're left with only the same short term tools that they dislike. So, while not technically accurate, I'll stick with we did nothing that should have been done by this point in the timeline.

Yes, that will help, but I think to much damage has already been done.

This is my fear and what I worry about. That we'll have new national policy direction by February 2021. But, the problem in February 2021 isn't the same as the problem as February 2020. It may well be so large by then that the tools that would have worked throughout 2020 are no longer possible. Some just, no longer possible quickly. We'll need more aggressive short term tactics to work our way back to a position where the other techniques can be applied. Others, no longer possible at all. For instance, policies that could have saved a local restaurant or small local attraction in June 2020 will not help at all if that business is shuttered and gone. While policies that work when community spread is under control will require more aggressive short term techniques before they can be applied.

 

[SamusAranX]

I agree. Maybe I am imaging a country that never existed, but I think there was a time that the US would have risen to a challenge like this and would have been the gold standard for how to handle it. That clearly didn't happen here.

Never attribute to malice what can be easily explained by incompetence. My motto at least lol

 

[SamusAranX]

We have done the same, between Native Americans, slavery, and some would say the current racism. This is what I mean that History will be the judge without 21st Century ideas. We think we're the good guys. History may say otherwise. If we have pivoted to a better version of ourselves through history's lens, then China can do the same.

I’m not nationalistic and remain neutral when it comes to political affairs. No doubt, EVERY people and nation has some guilt and bloodstains on their record. That’s an inevitability of human rule.

Just from my perspective, nothing can approach the atrocities of Nazi Germany and Communism. When it comes to governments and peoples, for me no one can rightfully claim to be “good guys” but there are some lesser evil ones.

 

[GoofGoof]

Are we doing so bad compared to other countries? I know we are not the best, but there are countries doing worse
View attachment 513968

Click the deaths per 100,000 tab. This is just showing percent of total cases that died.

Edit: Here it is, 8th worst in the world:

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Just from my perspective, nothing can approach the atrocities of Nazi Germany

Is one genocide worse than another?

 

[GoofGoof]

I think it’s not necessarily the best to compare to EVERY country. And that goes both ways. If you compare the US to for example, any third world country, they will come out looking like gold just because of the economic differences and how they play into medical care access, educational awareness of safety measures, etc
It’s best to compare the US to other developed nations and see where they stand. Hint: not great, not the worst, but not where you ideally want to be

I thought this as well, but when Columbia and Iran are doing better than the US that’s a head scratcher.

Well, at least we aren’t Belgium . Sorry if that offends anyone who is from Belgium, but what the heck are you guys doing over there (or not doing).

 

[hopemax]

I’m not nationalistic and remain neutral when it comes to political affairs. No doubt, EVERY people and nation has some guilt and bloodstains on their record. That’s an inevitability of human rule.

Just from my perspective, nothing can approach the atrocities of Nazi Germany and Communism. When it comes to governments and peoples, for me no one can rightfully claim to be “good guys” but there are some lesser evil ones.

I know some are probably thinking I'm a wack-a-doodle by even suggesting that History might judge China less harshly than the US. But China has been trying to buy their seat at the Global grownup table long before COVID. Investment in Africa, Central & South America, etc. COVID gives them another opportunity to flood the 2nd and 3rd world with PPE, equipment, eventual vaccines, etc. They will do the same for green energy initiatives too (they can multi-task and both work towards destroying and sustaining planet initiatives. That way you aren't ever wrong.)

Meanwhile the US, the supposed beacon of light and the shining example of democracy is going with do nothing, let people die, a leader that won't publicly recognize the result of an election, vaccinate the US first, and all the other nonsense. One party makes it policy to abdicate from the global stage, but then we still expect adulation?

China is still having trouble passing the "genocide is bad," portion of the global test, so maybe they don't get what they want either. But we have to mindful of the checkmarks and passing grades they can accumulate, while we are acting like spoiled children on the global stage.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 87 new reported deaths.

Florida has now surpassed 900,000 cases (905,248).

 

[JFP]

I know some are probably thinking I'm a wack-a-doodle by even suggesting that History might judge China less harshly than the US. But China has been trying to buy their seat at the Global grownup table long before COVID. Investment in Africa, Central & South America, etc. COVID gives them another opportunity to flood the 2nd and 3rd world with PPE, equipment, eventual vaccines, etc. They will do the same for green energy initiatives too (they can multi-task and both work towards destroying and sustaining planet initiatives. That way you aren't ever wrong.)

Meanwhile the US, the supposed beacon of light and the shining example of democracy is going with do nothing, let people die, a leader that won't publicly recognize the result of an election, vaccinate the US first, and all the other nonsense. One party makes it policy to abdicate from the global stage, but then we still expect adulation?

China is still having trouble passing the "genocide is bad," portion of the global test, so maybe they don't get what they want either. But we have to mindful of the checkmarks and passing grades they can accumulate, while we are acting like spoiled children on the global stage.

Yes. I think you're a wack-a-doodle.

 

[JFP]

I haven't commented much on this thread. I've read it every day since this whole mess started and I can usually appreciate the opinions - even if I don't agree with them. The praise of China is it for me. Hope you all come out of this ok. I'm out.

 

[SamusAranX]

Is one genocide worse than another?

If you approach it from a purely detached, numerical standpoint, yes some are definitely worse then others.

from a moral standpoint? Think it’s hard to say one is worse then another.

But incomptentence with covid to me while morally wrong, isn’t the same as deliberate genocide. Even the law would agree; that’s why we have different categories for when someone kills another; negligent homicide, manslaughter, and different degrees of murder

 

[SamusAranX]

I know some are probably thinking I'm a wack-a-doodle by even suggesting that History might judge China less harshly than the US. But China has been trying to buy their seat at the Global grownup table long before COVID. Investment in Africa, Central & South America, etc. COVID gives them another opportunity to flood the 2nd and 3rd world with PPE, equipment, eventual vaccines, etc. They will do the same for green energy initiatives too (they can multi-task and both work towards destroying and sustaining planet initiatives. That way you aren't ever wrong.)

Meanwhile the US, the supposed beacon of light and the shining example of democracy is going with do nothing, let people die, a leader that won't publicly recognize the result of an election, vaccinate the US first, and all the other nonsense. One party makes it policy to abdicate from the global stage, but then we still expect adulation?

China is still having trouble passing the "genocide is bad," portion of the global test, so maybe they don't get what they want either. But we have to mindful of the checkmarks and passing grades they can accumulate, while we are acting like spoiled children on the global stage.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don’t favor or disfavor one nation or people over another, but I do think that when people look back, they won’t say “man, China (the government) sure was authoritarian, repressive, and killed millions of its own people, but they did ok with COVID, so it’s a wash”.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

But incomptentence with covid to me while morally wrong, isn’t the same as deliberate genocide.

I agree. If that’s what was being discussed / implied I totally missed that.

I wouldn’t even say incompetence by itself is morally wrong. But knowingly downplaying it for political or financial reasons is morally wrong imho.

Is the leadership incompetent? Or knowingly downplaying it for politics / financials? That’s the question!

 

[Figgy1]

Numbers are out - there were 87 new reported deaths.

Florida has now surpassed 900,000 cases (905,248).

View attachment 514003View attachment 514004View attachment 514005View attachment 514006

The trend is going in the wrong direction and Thanksgiving is a week away. Not a good combo