Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Kman]

Coronavirus Update (Live): 137,483,333 Cases and 2,962,790 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Thanks

 

[danlb_2000]

How many people here would be for new legislation limiting cars to driving a maximum of 35 mph for 6 out of 12 months every year?

I ask because I'm trying to gauge what some view as acceptable risk. Roughly 40,000 Americans die in auto accidents every year. My hypothetical would no doubt save tens of thousands of lives annually.

If car accidents were putting in the hospital a rate that threated for overwhelm our ability to treat them, then I would be all for that.

 

[easyrowrdw]

"Over 900 Mayo Clinic staff have contracted COVID-19 in the past two weeks, according to a Tuesday briefing by Dr. Amy Williams, dean of clinical practice.

Williams said that 93 percent of staff who have contracted the virus did so in the community, and that the majority of those who contracted the virus at work did so while eating in a break room with a mask off.

“It shows you how easy it is to get COVID-19 in the Midwest,” said Willams, during an afternoon press call. “Our staff are being infected mostly due to community spread, and this impacts our ability to care for patients. We need everyone in the communities we serve to do their part to limit the spread of COVID-19.”

The 900 staff newly diagnosed with COVID-19 equals over one-third of the 2,981 Mayo employees diagnosed since the start of the outbreak. When you add in staff who are quarantined or taken offline in order to care for relatives, the clinic is currently experiencing a stable shortage of 1,500 staff systemwide, 1,000 in Rochester."

900 on Mayo Clinic staff have contracted coronavirus in last two weeks

ROCHESTER, Minn. — Over 900 Mayo Clinic staff have contracted COVID-19 in the past two weeks, according to a Tuesday briefing by Dr. Amy Williams, dean of clinical practice. Williams said that 93 p…

www.twincities.com

I think many healthcare workers are conscious of what should be done but they often fall into the trap of thinking they have it all figured out and know better than the average joe or the CDC on best practices or are just fatigued with following best practices.
I've seen some that think they are around viruses all the time and know how to protect and deal but they fail on the consistency front.
I applaud them all for wanting to work in these conditions and before but can also see why they would fail the precautions in the break rooms.
None of YOUR colleagues/friends/family would get this and spread it right??

I think this is a good example for why one cannot just boil it down to selfish people who don't care about the virus or think it's a hoax. 93% was from contracting it in the community. These people presumably understand the virus very well, but even they wind up in situations where they contract the virus. Exhibiting that level of self-control for the past eight months is incredibly taxing. Whether it's out of work or on the job, sometimes people just take a break.

 

[MisterPenguin]

How many people here would be for new legislation limiting cars to driving a maximum of 35 mph for 6 out of 12 months every year?

I ask because I'm trying to gauge what some view as acceptable risk. Roughly 40,000 Americans die in auto accidents every year. My hypothetical would no doubt save tens of thousands of lives annually.

Everybody eventually dies, so, let's stop trying to stop murders! Let's just decriminalize murders!! Or, only investigate murders when it feels like there's more than there should be!!!

There you go again, @Dan Deesnee, minimalizing deaths from COVID by comparing it to other deaths.

But, you know, let me humor you. You say that COVID restrictions would be like being OK with a law limiting maximum speed to 35 mph. But see, this is where you're analogy proves you wrong. We already cap speed on roads. In residential areas...OMG!!! It's only a freedom-restricting 25 mph!!!!!!

We don't let people drive wherever they want whenever they want at whatever speed they want in whatever dangerous vehicle they want because then the death rate from vehicles would be catastrophic.

The 65 mph in highways is like wearing a mask because we don't let people drive 120 mph. The 25 mph limit in residential areas is like social distancing because we don't let them drive 70 mph past a playground. Having to register your car and have it inspected and not letting you drive it until you do so even if it inflicts economic pain on you is like restricting social events and business.

Your very analogy shows how wrong you are.

Wear you darned mask/seatbelt.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Kman]

How many people here would be for new legislation limiting cars to driving a maximum of 35 mph for 6 out of 12 months every year?

I ask because I'm trying to gauge what some view as acceptable risk. Roughly 40,000 Americans die in auto accidents every year. My hypothetical would no doubt save tens of thousands of lives annually.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Everybody eventually dies, so, let's stop trying to stop murders! Let's just decriminalize murders!! Or, only investigate murders when it feels like there's more than there should be!!!

There you go again, @Dan Deesnee, minimalizing deaths from COVID by comparing it to other deaths.

But, you know, let me humor you. You say that COVID restrictions would be like being OK with a law limiting maximum speed to 35 mph. But see, this is where you're analogy proves you wrong. We already cap speed on roads. In residential areas...OMG!!! It's only a freedom-restricting 25 mph!!!!!!

We don't let people drive wherever they want whenever they want at whatever speed they want in whatever dangerous vehicle they want because then the death rate from vehicles would be catastrophic.

The 65 mph in highways is like wearing a mask because we don't let people drive 120 mph. The 25 mph limit in residential areas is like social distancing because we don't let them drive 70 mph past a playground. Having to register your car and have it inspected and not letting you drive it until you do so even if it inflicts economic pain on you is like restricting social events and business.

Your very analogy shows how wrong you are.

Wear you darned mask/seatbelt.

Better not tell him about the 15 mph limit around the school. That 15 mph is keeping people from being able to purchase a coffee on their way to work... so people driving 15 mph are forcing baristas out of a job!!!

 

[WDWTrojan]

How many people here would be for new legislation limiting cars to driving a maximum of 35 mph for 6 out of 12 months every year?

I ask because I'm trying to gauge what some view as acceptable risk. Roughly 40,000 Americans die in auto accidents every year. My hypothetical would no doubt save tens of thousands of lives annually.

First of all, the auto accident comparison has been debunked so many times. One accident doesn't trigger a chain reaction creating hundreds more accidents.

Second, we already have a host of safety measures for vehicles that we all accept (speed limits, seatbelt laws, insurance requirements, drivers licensing, etc).

Lastly, we will likely lose 325K people this year from COVID-19 and that includes three months when the country was basically shut down. It is far and away above more than what we lose to automobile accidents. Further, without the continued mitigation that most states enact (masks, outdoor dining, etc) we would see far more deaths. In addition, we thankfully continued to have enough hospital space. However, with unmitigated spread, we would likely run out of treatment space and many more would die, from COVID and other causes, simply because of the rationed care.

 

[hopemax]

Personally, my judgment

Usually not applicable, when asking "what will history say." Historically, how much was the USA's reputation damaged for the lies told about 1918 influenza? Or any country that lied about what was happening? Maybe countries lying, historically, is not a big deal and expected, and we are an aberration for acting/believing otherwise.

I know I was expecting a lot by asking people to step outside of today's narratives to imagine the alternatives that might be written in the future. Nations statuses rise and fall, authoritarianism ebbs and flows, global cooperation...these things aren't static. The case will be influenced by the numbers, like the final score of a game. Ours are not good, and China's are, as tallied, better than most. How we, in 2020, feel about their playbook will be diminished, if the future views it as legitimate based on the score.

Don't worry guys, I won't do this tomorrow. But after everything else in this thread, I can play historical "what ifs" for a day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

How many people here would be for new legislation limiting cars to driving a maximum of 35 mph for 6 out of 12 months every year?

I ask because I'm trying to gauge what some view as acceptable risk. Roughly 40,000 Americans die in auto accidents every year. My hypothetical would no doubt save tens of thousands of lives annually.

250,000 > 40,000 (a slight exaggeration of about 10% for more than a decade)

 

[ParentsOf4]

Usually not applicable, when asking "what will history say." Historically, how much was the USA's reputation damaged for the lies told about 1918 influenza? Or any country that lied about what was happening? Maybe countries lying, historically, is not a big deal and expected, and we are an aberration for acting/believing otherwise.

I know I was expecting a lot by asking people to step outside of today's narratives to imagine the alternatives that might be written in the future. Nations statuses rise and fall, authoritarianism ebbs and flows, global cooperation...these things aren't static. The case will be influenced by the numbers, like the final score of a game. Ours are not good, and China's are, as tallied, better than most. How we, in 2020, feel about their playbook will be diminished, if the future views it as legitimate based on the score.

Don't worry guys, I won't do this tomorrow. But after everything else in this thread, I can play historical "what ifs" for a day.

Interesting topic, "what will history say".

How many lament the 30 million dead of World War 1?

How many cry at night thinking about the 60 million dead of World War 2?

How many knew there was a 1918 pandemic before this year?

To my parents and grandparents who lived through these tragedies, they were life-altering events.

To my children, they vaguely recall studying something that happened long before they were born.

My point?

In 50 years, few will recall the 2020 pandemic, even fewer will discuss it.

What will history say about the 2020 pandemic?

Very little.

Sadly, the following is all too true:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

[oceanbreeze77]

I'm seeing speculation that we have reached testing capacity.

Wyoming had a 74% positivity rate today.

 

[techgeek]

Usually not applicable, when asking "what will history say." Historically, how much was the USA's reputation damaged for the lies told about 1918 influenza? Or any country that lied about what was happening? Maybe countries lying, historically, is not a big deal and expected, and we are an aberration for acting/believing otherwise.

I know I was expecting a lot by asking people to step outside of today's narratives to imagine the alternatives that might be written in the future. Nations statuses rise and fall, authoritarianism ebbs and flows, global cooperation...these things aren't static. The case will be influenced by the numbers, like the final score of a game. Ours are not good, and China's are, as tallied, better than most. How we, in 2020, feel about their playbook will be diminished, if the future views it as legitimate based on the score.

Don't worry guys, I won't do this tomorrow. But after everything else in this thread, I can play historical "what ifs" for a day.

Fair enough. As it is with much of history, the lens is going to be distorted by who's writing the book.

And at the end of the day, my view may well turn out to be summarized historically as 'they lost the first battle, but won the war'. But, at what cost? We speak constantly here of nuance and freedoms and balance and how we all try to find the humanity in this story, sharing highly individual stories of economic chaos, uncertainty, and all too often of personal loss. As always, we try to find the face to this crisis, how it truly affects our families and our neighbors. We make decisions and balance risks, for ourselves and for our communities. The numbers are a part of our dialogue, but the numbers are not why we are here. We are all a part of the numbers, but we are all also ourselves. At the end of the day, let the war against Covid be judged on the basis of humanity, not on simply the numbers.

I can assure you that in China, this discussion would be solely about the numbers.

 

[hopemax]

Interesting topic, "what will history say".

How many lament the 30 million dead of World War 1?

How many cry at night thinking about the 60 million dead of World War 2?

How many knew there was a 1918 pandemic before this year?

To my parents and grandparents who lived through these tragedies, they were life-altering events.

To my children, they vaguely recall studying something that happened long before they were born.

My point?

In 50 years, few will recall the 2020 pandemic, even fewer will discuss it.

What will history say about the 2020 pandemic?

Very little.

Sadly, the following is all too true:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

You are talking the general public. But there are always those for who it is their life's work, and which future decisions and policies will be born from. The 1918 pandemic absolutely mattered in the world of infectious diseases. The dead and destruction left behind after WWI & WWII absolutely played a role in how governments reacted and responded going forward and therefore how life unfolded for the last 75 years. Today's economics are influenced by the Great Depression, and so on. The fact that the public doesn't know the details speaks to the chasm between how regular people treat history, and the experts who can't escape the ways the past determines why we are where we are today. This pandemic will be a blueprint for someone's decisions of what to do or not do in the future, whether the masses know it or not.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You are talking the general public. But there are always those for who it is their life's work, and which future decisions and policies will be born from. The 1918 pandemic absolutely mattered in the world of infectious diseases. The dead and destruction left behind after WWI & WWII absolutely played a role in how governments reacted and responded going forward and therefore how life unfolded for the last 75 years. Today's economics are influenced by the Great Depression, and so on. The fact that the public doesn't know the details speaks to the chasm between how regular people treat history, and the experts who can't escape the ways the past determines why we are where we are today. This pandemic will be a blueprint for someone's decisions of what to do or not do in the future, whether the masses know it or not.

What it shows is that education was failing us well before class moved to Zoom.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

You are talking the general public. But there are always those for who it is their life's work, and which future decisions and policies will be born from. The 1918 pandemic absolutely mattered in the world of infectious diseases. The dead and destruction left behind after WWI & WWII absolutely played a role in how governments reacted and responded going forward and therefore how life unfolded for the last 75 years. Today's economics are influenced by the Great Depression, and so on. The fact that the public doesn't know the details speaks to the chasm between how regular people treat history, and the experts who can't escape the ways the past determines why we are where we are today. This pandemic will be a blueprint for someone's decisions of what to do or not do in the future, whether the masses know it or not.

Well thought out and very true. My hope is that this pandemic and our responses to it help us be much more prepared for the inevitable next one. Especially if it ends up being, God forbid, something as horrible as Ebola, etc. Time will tell.

 

[ParentsOf4]

You are talking the general public. But there are always those for who it is their life's work, and which future decisions and policies will be born from. The 1918 pandemic absolutely mattered in the world of infectious diseases. The dead and destruction left behind after WWI & WWII absolutely played a role in how governments reacted and responded going forward and therefore how life unfolded for the last 75 years. Today's economics are influenced by the Great Depression, and so on. The fact that the public doesn't know the details speaks to the chasm between how regular people treat history, and the experts who can't escape the ways the past determines why we are where we are today. This pandemic will be a blueprint for someone's decisions of what to do or not do in the future, whether the masses know it or not.

Please keep in mind that what historians and experts say at the time of events such as the 1918 pandemic and World War 2 nearly always differs from what later groups of historians and experts say decades later.

History tells us that what today's experts say now is nearly always interpreted differently by later generations.

 

[seascape]

Please keep in mind that what historians and experts say at the time of events as the 1918 pandemic and World War 2 nearly always differs from what later groups of historians and experts say decades later.

History tells us that what today's experts say now is nearly always interpreted differently by later generations.

What is sure is historians will say it was advances in vaccine development, started several years before Covid19 started that kept the disease from being worse. Who gets credit for this? There is a great amount to go around but the scientists. thanks to the Federal Money from Project Warp speed that did the work. but the current Administration deserves some credit for encouraging a vaccine wothin the year and delivering. The insane goal was needed just like when JFK promised that America would send a man to the moon and bring him home within the decade.

Thank you to the healthcare workers, vaccine developers and tax payers for funding it.

 

[GoofGoof]

What is sure is historians will say it was advances in vaccine development, started several years before Covid19 started that kept the disease from being worse. Who gets credit for this? There is a great amount to go around but the scientists. thanks to the Federal Money from Project Warp speed that did the work. but the current Administration deserves some credit for encouraging a vaccine wothin the year and delivering. The insane goal was needed just like when JFK promised that America would send a man to the moon and bring him home within the decade.

Thank you to the healthcare workers, vaccine developers and tax payers for funding it.

I agree that there’s a good chance that if these vaccines work out they could very well go down as one of the greatest scientific achievements of all time. It’s a testament to the skills of the scientists involved and also a big win for large pharma companies who often get a bad wrap for being greedy. This is also one of the biggest international undertaking since WWII. People in the US may be focused on Warp Speed and the federal government involvement but the reality is that governments around the world have stepped up to fund this research. Assuming we see this through and we get the vaccine out to the entire world, I believe when history looks back at this one of the primary focuses will be on how well the world joined together to defeat this virus, again in a way we haven’t seen since WWII.

 

[hopemax]

Please keep in mind that what historians and experts say at the time of events such as the 1918 pandemic and World War 2 nearly always differs from what later groups of historians and experts say decades later.

History tells us that what today's experts say now is nearly always interpreted differently by later generations.

Yes, that's what started this whole chain of a sub-plot. The question of what history will think, was left hanging, with the implication that history will decide this was nonsense, and the world shouldn't have stopped to save so few for such great economic ruin. My original point was that history doesn't usually find fault with those that tried to save citizens over economy. And that, an alternative result might be that future history, based on the numbers, might treat China's lockdown approach less harshly than we do, and the US's do nothing will be viewed more harshly. Which apparently meant I was "pro-China" and caused someone to leave the thread.

The.whole.point.being.that.we.shouldn't.believe.history.would.automatically.vindicate.US.inaction.strategy.