Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I never said there was a conspiracy...just that there is a growing frustration in the uk that the figures are being manipulated... yesterday there was 9 deaths announced by our hospitals but our all settings deaths was 120 that’s a 111 person difference and differences ranging from 75 to over 100 have been happening for the last 2 weeks does that not seem off to you? Like I said previously it could be being orchestrated by our government and scientific advisors to help keep covid in peoples minds and making them in the future say you will not get back to any sort of normal until you have a vaccine. Now I will take a vaccine anyway as I’m pro vaccine and I think covid needs to be gone ASAP. All I’m saying is the figures that are being released in the uk seem very very dubious recently

OK, take the word “conspiracy” out of my question. By whom and for what purpose are the numbers being manipulated? What possible interest does the government or scientific community have in “keep[ing] covid in peoples minds and making them in the future say you will not get back to any sort of normal until you have a vaccine”?

There are no winners in this. No government on earth would want to needlessly perpetuate a situation that is destructive to the economy and fuels public resentment. The situation is reported as being bad because it is bad.
 

Flugell

Well-Known Member
In the uk more and more people are getting fed up with the rules and restrictions they are beginning to think that the measures are to draconian for the situation we are in. There also appears to be huge controversy over our death figures, a couple of times this week our hospital deaths have been in single digits but our all settings deaths has been over a hundred which doesn’t really make sense. More and more people in the uk at least think that the figures are being manipulated to keep fear going I’m not normally one for conspiracy theories but the data does seem to be really off recently

Speak for yourself. Do NOT presume to speak for “more and more people in the U.K. “ unless you have clear evidence to back up that claim.

I’m from Manchester in the newly harder hit area and EVERYONE I know (not a huge quantity- asked about 40) is in favour of the increased measures and appalled by the selfishness of those who find it too difficult to follow the rules.
Why would a government, under intense scrutiny manipulate figures to create additional fear?
Follow the guidance, then we can eventually get back to normal. Don’t follow the guidance and it will take longer. This is my sincere opinion but seems to be backed up from hot spots around the world where things are being pulled back.
I appreciate it’s hard, my elder son has lost his job because of Covid-19 and we haven’t been able to see our other son since Christmas as he lives in Wales.
Despite that I choose to follow the guidance but will continue to question the rationale and look for examples throughout the world.

To clarify for those outside the U.K. England, Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland all have their own guidance and rules so are singing to different tunes!!
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
This - like the camp story - is bad, but it's not the situation everywhere. All the schools and camps that haven't had outbreaks aren't going to make the news. One camp I know of has had one positive case - a counselor. My kids' daycare has had zero. But that's just normal so it's not really newsworthy.
How many US schools have even started? It's only August 1.
 

Yodascousin

Active Member
OK, take the word “conspiracy” out of my question. By whom and for what purpose are the numbers being manipulated? What possible interest does the government or scientific community have in “keep[ing] covid in peoples minds and making them in the future say you will not get back to any sort of normal until you have a vaccine”?

There are no winners in this. No government on earth would want to needlessly perpetuate a situation that is destructive to the economy and fuels public resentment. The situation is reported as being bad because it is bad.
To be honest I don’t know as I don’t believe that is the case I was just putting forward a possible answer as to why they are arguably being manipulated. And as another possible answer again not something I believe but an answer to why they are keeping it in peoples minds so that people get vaccinated is because the government are petrified of a second wave and having to lockdown again Better to keep covid in peoples minds so they get vaccinated then not enough people getting vaccinated and having to lock down again.
 

Yodascousin

Active Member
Speak for yourself. Do NOT presume to speak for “more and more people in the U.K. “ unless you have clear evidence to back up that claim.

I’m from Manchester in the newly harder hit area and EVERYONE I know (not a huge quantity- asked about 40) is in favour of the increased measures and appalled by the selfishness of those who find it too difficult to follow the rules.
Why would a government, under intense scrutiny manipulate figures to create additional fear?
Follow the guidance, then we can eventually get back to normal. Don’t follow the guidance and it will take longer. This is my sincere opinion but seems to be backed up from hot spots around the world where things are being pulled back.
I appreciate it’s hard, my elder son has lost his job because of Covid-19 and we haven’t been able to see our other son since Christmas as he lives in Wales.
Despite that I choose to follow the guidance but will continue to question the rationale and look for examples throughout the world.

To clarify for those outside the U.K. England, Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland all have their own guidance and rules so are singing to different tunes!!
I find your first paragraph quite rude to be honest telling me to speak for myself I said what I said because the majority of people I have spoken to including people from Manchester feel that way more so then the beginning of lockdown.

And like you I am appalled by the selfishness of people not following the rules people going into shops without masks infuriates me and it keeps happening. I think we have the exact same Stance on covid and the response to it. I have followed the rules religiously I myself have been shielding since March I haven’t been anywhere but the bottom of my road so I sympathise with how hard it is. I also agree that you should pull back in hot spots to stop it getting out of hand my issue was with the difference between hospital deaths and all settings deaths recently which nobody has tried to answer. Again I believe they are keeping the ‘fear’ going as to ensure enough people get vaccinated so we don’t have to lockdown again not because of some whacky covid isn’t dangerous theory basically a bit of fear for our own good especially with how people behave.
As your from Manchester though how did you feel about being given 3 hours notice via a twitter post? And our new pullback on restrictions as the data I have seen is we have done this nationally from an increase off 121 cases from an additional 3000 tests
 

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
I know a lot of people are saying we shouldn't lockdown again, however, if you listen to the worlds scientist and infectious disease doctors, many agree that this won't be taken care of until we have a full on hard shutdown. We can want the best for our economy and hope that it doesn't come to that, but every day it is starting to look like that is truly the only realistic option for destroying this thing.

The thing preventing it from happening are questions like "who will pay for peoples rent, food, expenses, etc?" We won't delve too deep into this, because of its political implications but it is sad that these questions are virtually standing in the way of us ending this thing.

*Also a vaccine can and will help, but it will be a looonnggg time before we see it completely move society back to normal, so its best not to just depend on it.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
How many US schools have even started? It's only August 1.
Only 2 or 3 states that I know of have districts that started. Not sure if that’s standard practice or because of Covid. The 2nd and 3rd weeks of August are when a lot of districts typically go back in the south. NE is usually around Labor Day.
 

Flugell

Well-Known Member
I find your first paragraph quite rude to be honest telling me to speak for myself I said what I said because the majority of people I have spoken to including people from Manchester feel that way more so then the beginning of lockdown.

And like you I am appalled by the selfishness of people not following the rules people going into shops without masks infuriates me and it keeps happening. I think we have the exact same Stance on covid and the response to it. I have followed the rules religiously I myself have been shielding since March I haven’t been anywhere but the bottom of my road so I sympathise with how hard it is. I also agree that you should pull back in hot spots to stop it getting out of hand my issue was with the difference between hospital deaths and all settings deaths recently which nobody has tried to answer. Again I believe they are keeping the ‘fear’ going as to ensure enough people get vaccinated so we don’t have to lockdown again not because of some whacky covid isn’t dangerous theory basically a bit of fear for our own good especially with how people behave.
As your from Manchester though how did you feel about being given 3 hours notice via a twitter post? And our new pullback on restrictions as the data I have seen is we have done this nationally from an increase off 121 cases from an additional 3000 tests

There was no intention to be rude I was mereIy pointing out that I disagreed with your statement and you weren’t reflecting my opinions. I responded in that manner as I also found your opening statement to be rude as you appeared to be speaking on behalf of other people without any justification or proof. However apologies for any offence caused.

As for the rest of your new post, it would indeed seem we are much more in agreement than it appeared. I too have been sheltering at home since March and yes it is incredibly hard, so best wishes to you and your family. I haven’t considered that they are keeping the fear going to encourage vaccination in the future but am quite prepared to consider it and agree it may be for our own good!

I confess to not seeing every English statement of cases, hospitalisation and deaths over the last couple of weeks, though watched nearly every daily briefing so don’t feel I have the knowledge to comment on the discrepancy you describe. I have been more concerned with my own immediate locality and until the week ending 20th July we were averaging five new cases per day but by 27th July that had increased to an average of 15 a day. Not a huge number I agree but a massive percentage increase.

As for the notice, I’m not on twitter so found out via a news notification on my phone. I think my initial reaction was relief, due to my local concerns. It’s a real conundrum, in my opinion, if too much notice is given will the situation get worse and people rush out to meet again before they’re not allowed but if short notice is given will that disappoint people and disrupt their plans especially on the eve of Eid? Not a call I would like to make because I think you’re damned whatever.

I’m not certain that our localised restrictions are strong enough, as people are still able to go to pubs, restaurants, gyms etc. as long as they don’t mix with other people (unless they live alone and can meet their bubble support) so I guess the fear factor is working on me!

Anyway apologies again for any offence, stay safe and I’ll buy you a drink in WDW if the U.K. are ever allowed back!
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
Well so much for eating inside a restaurant since this started in town. We attempted but after seeing a waitress carrying food on a tray by her shoulder/head mask down (I watched her pull it down BTW it didn't fall) we left. I get it, masks suck to wear at work, but to BREATHE on peoples food? Seems like traveling to Florida is less risky than eating in our own dang town.
 

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
Well so much for eating inside a restaurant since this started in town. We attempted but after seeing a waitress carrying food on a tray by her shoulder/head mask down (I watched her pull it down BTW it didn't fall) we left. I get it, masks suck to wear at work, but to BREATHE on peoples food? Seems like traveling to Florida is less risky than eating in our own dang town.
a big problem is sometimes its not an "anti-mask" attitude, but a "oh, its no big deal" attitude.
 

Yodascousin

Active Member
There was no intention to be rude I was mereIy pointing out that I disagreed with your statement and you weren’t reflecting my opinions. I responded in that manner as I also found your opening statement to be rude as you appeared to be speaking on behalf of other people without any justification or proof. However apologies for any offence caused.

As for the rest of your new post, it would indeed seem we are much more in agreement than it appeared. I too have been sheltering at home since March and yes it is incredibly hard, so best wishes to you and your family. I haven’t considered that they are keeping the fear going to encourage vaccination in the future but am quite prepared to consider it and agree it may be for our own good!

I confess to not seeing every English statement of cases, hospitalisation and deaths over the last couple of weeks, though watched nearly every daily briefing so don’t feel I have the knowledge to comment on the discrepancy you describe. I have been more concerned with my own immediate locality and until the week ending 20th July we were averaging five new cases per day but by 27th July that had increased to an average of 15 a day. Not a huge number I agree but a massive percentage increase.

As for the notice, I’m not on twitter so found out via a news notification on my phone. I think my initial reaction was relief, due to my local concerns. It’s a real conundrum, in my opinion, if too much notice is given will the situation get worse and people rush out to meet again before they’re not allowed but if short notice is given will that disappoint people and disrupt their plans especially on the eve of Eid? Not a call I would like to make because I think you’re damned whatever.

I’m not certain that our localised restrictions are strong enough, as people are still able to go to pubs, restaurants, gyms etc. as long as they don’t mix with other people (unless they live alone and can meet their bubble support) so I guess the fear factor is working on me!

Anyway apologies again for any offence, stay safe and I’ll buy you a drink in WDW if the U.K. are ever allowed back!
Thank you for your reply and best wishes to yourself and your family and sorry if I appeared rude I was only commenting on personal experience of what I have seen heard and read.
It’s probably good you are not following every announcement being made as it’s quite maddening and better for mental health to just concentrate on your area. Yes that percentage increase is concerning and it’s a hard balancing act on whether to introduce restrictions or not and like you not a decision I would like to make. Fear is good sometimes! You can only do what’s best for you and others that’s all any of us can do just wish more people were a bit more considerate of others!
And thank you for the wishes you stay safe too and I would be glad to have a drink with you at WDW and put the world to rights when this is all over!
 

lisa12000

Well-Known Member
Speak for yourself. Do NOT presume to speak for “more and more people in the U.K. “ unless you have clear evidence to back up that claim.

I’m from Manchester in the newly harder hit area and EVERYONE I know (not a huge quantity- asked about 40) is in favour of the increased measures and appalled by the selfishness of those who find it too difficult to follow the rules.
Why would a government, under intense scrutiny manipulate figures to create additional fear?
Follow the guidance, then we can eventually get back to normal. Don’t follow the guidance and it will take longer. This is my sincere opinion but seems to be backed up from hot spots around the world where things are being pulled back.
I appreciate it’s hard, my elder son has lost his job because of Covid-19 and we haven’t been able to see our other son since Christmas as he lives in Wales.
Despite that I choose to follow the guidance but will continue to question the rationale and look for examples throughout the world.

To clarify for those outside the U.K. England, Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland all have their own guidance and rules so are singing to different tunes!!


I have to say once again I feel that your initial comments are a bit out of order and using capitals does not make you right. I think it is very easy to talk about selfishness when you do not know the context of some peoples behaviour - For example, the supposition is that it is the young/ BAME groups who are not complying and they are getting a lot of flack. The fact is the young are no different now to the 80s and 90s where you had illegal raves. parties etc etc. the natural instinct of the young is to socialise, they thrive on social contact and their friends are the centre of their world - I think the younger age groups have been fantastic up until recent times and have abided by the rules far more than I expected and I applaud them. However, there becomes a point where natural instinct does take over and when they are given the opportunity to go out and socialise, meet their friends etc there is no wonder that things may get slightly out of hand - they have been starved of the thing that gives their lives meaning and from talking to a few of my students they are petrified that its going to be taken away again - so they are making the most of it whilst they can. I know this is frustrating for other people who are abiding by the rules, and I have done the same, but I can totally and utterly understand why it is happening and I have some empathy for them. Also if BLM protests were allowed to go on without consequences than you can understand why many feel like they can do the same i.e. meet in groups.

Why would a government manipulate figures? I dont think they are - remember PHE are an autonomous body in the UK and I just think they are truly incompetent! They have admitted there is no cut off point between infection and death in their figures so you could have had Covid in march, totally recovered, then died of natural causes (if you're elderly for example) and they will record it as a Covid death! this HAS been admitted and is subject to review - yet figures are still published when they said they wouldn't be! its pretty obvious to me that if we have 4 deaths in hospital such as today, and care home deaths are now below average that an additional 70 doesn't make sense at all and I question PHE competence.


The Sunday Times tomorrow is now reporting that Boris is considering shielding ALL the over 50s if local lockdowns dont work, and blockading the M25 so no one can come in and out of London if it flares up there!! im sorry but this doesn't seem like rational thought processes to me - he is also suggesting we go back to no social contacts with families - im afraid then I will struggle to comply!
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Looks like PA and possibly other nearby states are looking to have a tracing app out by the end of August. It’s about time we put some technology to good use. The app will use the Google/Apple technology that is already available on every IPhone and Android device.

 

Flugell

Well-Known Member
I have to say once again I feel that your initial comments are a bit out of order and using capitals does not make you right. I think it is very easy to talk about selfishness when you do not know the context of some peoples behaviour - For example, the supposition is that it is the young/ BAME groups who are not complying and they are getting a lot of flack. The fact is the young are no different now to the 80s and 90s where you had illegal raves. parties etc etc. the natural instinct of the young is to socialise, they thrive on social contact and their friends are the centre of their world - I think the younger age groups have been fantastic up until recent times and have abided by the rules far more than I expected and I applaud them. However, there becomes a point where natural instinct does take over and when they are given the opportunity to go out and socialise, meet their friends etc there is no wonder that things may get slightly out of hand - they have been starved of the thing that gives their lives meaning and from talking to a few of my students they are petrified that its going to be taken away again - so they are making the most of it whilst they can. I know this is frustrating for other people who are abiding by the rules, and I have done the same, but I can totally and utterly understand why it is happening and I have some empathy for them. Also if BLM protests were allowed to go on without consequences than you can understand why many feel like they can do the same i.e. meet in groups.

Why would a government manipulate figures? I dont think they are - remember PHE are an autonomous body in the UK and I just think they are truly incompetent! They have admitted there is no cut off point between infection and death in their figures so you could have had Covid in march, totally recovered, then died of natural causes (if you're elderly for example) and they will record it as a Covid death! this HAS been admitted and is subject to review - yet figures are still published when they said they wouldn't be! its pretty obvious to me that if we have 4 deaths in hospital such as today, and care home deaths are now below average that an additional 70 doesn't make sense at all and I question PHE competence.


The Sunday Times tomorrow is now reporting that Boris is considering shielding ALL the over 50s if local lockdowns dont work, and blockading the M25 so no one can come in and out of London if it flares up there!! im sorry but this doesn't seem like rational thought processes to me - he is also suggesting we go back to no social contacts with families - im afraid then I will struggle to comply!

Using capital letters doesn’t make me wrong either! I notice that you have also used them for emphasis as I did!!

I made no mention of BAME or BLM but understand the resentment that participants or non participants may feel towards reaction to their actions.

You say that the young are no different to those who were young in the 80’s and 90’s and I know that friends and interaction are deemed a necessity by many or most. However I believe you squashed your own argument when you referred to illegal raves. They were illegal then and large gatherings are illegal now. Neither should ever occur. That was my time at university and I never did and never have attended anything illegal, it wasn’t hard, just followed the rules. I’m also not a goody goody by any stretch of the imagination!

It is really a rotten time to be young now and I do sympathise.

I understand youngsters fears that the current situation may indeed be taken away from them but abiding by the current rules will make that much less likely to happen. Breaking the current rules will probably make it inevitable.
I agree that until recently most youngsters (a word covering a wide age gap in this case and in comparison to me) have generally been fairly compliant but they had fewer places to go, so was it by choice or just circumstances? I would like to believe by choice.

Like you I have followed the rules to the letter and will continue to do so, to hopefully benefit everyone no matter the personal difficulties. We have so little defence against the spread of the virus that I don’t know what else to do. It appears that all over the world, wherever restrictions are lifted the virus returns and continues its destructive and damaging path.

I agree that it seems ridiculous for the government or PHE to be deliberately massaging figures in an upward direction when we already have such a horrific number of deaths though Yodascousin had a very interesting theory.

If all over 50’s are instructed to shelter at home, that would remove a lot of workers from the economy but would make me think that perhaps something new has been discovered or is being researched about the virus and wouldn’t be a decision taken lightly. At the moment that is supposition as is blocking the M25 so probably best to wait and see before reacting.

At the moment, being in Manchester we are not allowed to meet family, unless living alone and they are your chosen bubble, which is causing us some distress. Our younger son lives in Cardiff, so has been under different rules and was supposed to come up for his birthday in 2 weeks. We haven’t seen him since Christmas so we’re very disappointed but have all agreed to follow the rules, just hoping that they change in time! I would urge everyone to comply as the more people who stretch the rules the longer it will take to go back to even that small, but vitally important, bit of normality.
 

Disneydreamer23

Well-Known Member
My friend went to Disney World Monday on a whim with her 3 sisters for 5 nights to come home on Friday night , On the Saturday before she got tested for a dental procedure done Sunday- today she is at MK and gets the call she has COVID 19.. now she said she is already there and is going to enjoy the parks since she is asymptomatic. This is why I don't trust people! PS: Yes, I told her she was wrong and she needed to contact Southwest and Disney, she said she will do what she wants she is a " grown a** woman!"
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
My friend went to Disney World Monday on a whim with her 3 sisters for 5 nights to come home on Friday night , On the Saturday before she got tested for a dental procedure done Sunday- today she is at MK and gets the call she has COVID 19.. now she said she is already there and is going to enjoy the parks since she is asymptomatic. This is why I don't trust people! PS: Yes, I told her she was wrong and she needed to contact Southwest and Disney, she said she will do what she wants she is a " grown a** woman!"
Doesn’t she care about her sisters? I am assuming they are sharing a room. Plus you know anyone else she infects. What she is doing is a violation of Disney’s policy. If someone who knows her anonymously called in a “tip” to the hotel I wonder what they would do. Technically her whole party is violating the rules now since anyone who is in contact with a Covid positive person has to quarantine for 14 days before entering the parks. I don‘t know anything else about your friend, but based on this story I’d change it from “grown a**” to “dumb a**” ;)
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Doesn’t she care about her sisters? I am assuming they are sharing a room. Plus you know anyone else she infects. What she is doing is a violation of Disney’s policy. If someone who knows her anonymously called in a “tip” to the hotel I wonder what they would do. Technically her whole party is violating the rules now since anyone who is in contact with a Covid positive person has to quarantine for 14 days before entering the parks. I don‘t know anything else about your friend, but based on this story I’d change it from “grown a**” to “dumb a**” ;)
I would call and report. That's just not right on so many levels. Yep...call me a snitch all you want - she could be endangering someone's life.
 
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