Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
I'd be pretty thrilled with a 99% or 96% Covid vaccine.

And an excellent scientist wouldn't exaggerage to manipulate public behavior. That tends to erode public trust, which is critical to have and maintain during a national health emergency.
He would if his current job was to sell people on something. I’m sure he is much more precise in his language in the lab. I explain vaccines differently to students than I do to the average person. You need to speak to your audience.

Some of the CV-19 vaccines were that efficacious initially. Not enough people got vaccinated and this virus mutates too quickly. Thankfully, they are still better than most flu shots and we have a bivalent vaccine against the original strain and omicron coming this fall.

It appears we will move to a flu situation—new, strain-specific vaccine annually. Some will get it. Some will die.

But we will be hugging Mickey Mouse, so there’s that.
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
He would if his current job was to sell people on something. I’m sure he is much more precise in the lab.

Some of the CV-19 vaccines were that efficacious initially. Not enough people got vaccinated and this virus mutates too quickly. Thankfully, they are still better than most flu shots and we have a bivalent vaccine against the original strain and omicron coming this fall.

It appears we will move to a flu situation—new, strain-specific vaccine annually. Some will get it. Some will die.

But we will be hugging Mickey Mouse, so there’s that.
His current job was to maintain public trust so they coudl get cooperation with the health initiatives required to shepherd the country through this. In effect, his job was to sell uptake of those measures.

I understand why the shots aren't as effective. But trying to say "hey, no vaccine is 100%" and comparing it with some that are 99% doesn't really make your point.

I'd be happy with a flu situation where we needed an annual shot. I'm not happy with a 2 month version of that though.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
20220616_132202.jpg


A photo from the Spanish Shark Tank.

A young C Columbus, aspiring adventurer, is pitching his plan to sail "to a new world".

The Marques de Cuban exclaimed "he's out" as science says he will sail off the edge of the earth. It's a fools investment.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
His current job was to maintain public trust so they coudl get cooperation with the health initiatives required to shepherd the country through this. In effect, his job was to sell uptake of those measures.

I understand why the shots aren't as effective. But trying to say "hey, no vaccine is 100%" and comparing it with some that are 99% doesn't really make your point.

I'd be happy with a flu situation where we needed an annual shot. I'm not happy with a 2 month version of that though.
There is no 2 month version. Been 11 months since my last shot so.....
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
We've all pretty much gotten over it. I still have a little congestion and slight cough, but out of the 3 of us that's it. I hope the immunity from the vaxx + booster + just getting over it gives us enough protection to head down for a week or so and not have to worry so much
If nobody had anything remotely serious, why worry at all?
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
View attachment 646161

A photo from the Spanish Shark Tank.

A young C Columbus, aspiring adventurer, is pitching his plan to sail "to a new world".

The Marques de Cuban exclaimed "he's out" as science says he will sail off the edge of the earth. It's a fools investment.
Nice analogy... except its a complete anachronism. The Earth was known as a globe since ancient times, particularly among mariners. The Portuguese circumnavigation of Africa in the decades prior to Columbus effectively ended any lingering belief in a flat earth until it was resurrected in the 19th century.

Columbus had trouble finding backers to his proposed voyage not because people thought he would fall off the earth, but more likely because most thought it wouldn't be profitable.

And Columbus wasn't looking for a "new world", he was looking for a route to Asia that bypassed the Ottomans and the Portuguese.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
“A vaccine is a biological substance designed to protect humans from infections caused by bacteria and viruses. Vaccines are also called immunizations because they take advantage of our natural immune system’s ability to prevent infectious illness. To understand how vaccines work, we need to consider how our immune system protects us from infections.” Basically a vaccine is suppose to give you immunization to the targeted bacteria or virus. The covid shots are showing that they are really not vaccines in the traditional sense.

But then there is this!
To think or say the vaccine is the end all be all is not really accurate anymore. I am vaxxed but not boosted. My physician sees it as unnecessary in his words as of right now. Plus I have had covid twice before vaccines and once after and my body reacted the same all 3 times which was zero to no symptoms at all.


Vaccines are not magic. Yes, calling people "immune" and "protected" is just bad use of language. No one is truly immune to a virus for which they were already infected or were vaccinated against.

Nothing can create a magic forcefield around you that stops airborne viruses from being breathed into your nasal passages and lungs (except maybe being isolated on a mountain top or a deserted island). When the virus lands, it will infect and attempt to replicate in an exponential fashion.

If this is a new virus to you, you're body has a few days to a week to find the right protein pattern through trial and error that will dismantle the virus before the virus destroys enough of your organs that you're dead. Anti-viral medications can slow down the replication of some viruses, but, in the end, it will be your immune system that will save you.

Rather than hoping your immune system will work fast enough to kill the virus before the virus kills you, you can train your immune system to 'recognize' the virus and have enough immune cells that know how to kill the virus ahead of time. That can happen in two ways:
1. you already were infected with this virus, and your immune system fought it off​
2. you received a vaccine, which tricked your immune system into thinking it was a real virus, which caused the immune system to be ready to fight off the real virus if ever you were infected​

The vaccine does not stay in your body. It is not sticking around ready to fight off the virus. It is destroyed by your immune system and excreted like any non-welcome chemical in your body (e.g., like with alcohol). Instead, your own immune system is primed and ready to fight off the virus.

And your immune system isn't magic, either. It does not create a forcefield around you keeping viruses from being breathed in. What your immune system does is fight off the invading virus. If you had the virus before, or the vaccine, then your immune system is ready and ahead of the game.

This is why one can be re-infected ("breakthrough infection") even if you've been vaccinated, and even if you've had the virus before.

So, what good is the biological immunity from vaccination or a previous infection?
1. It dramatically increases the likelihood of preventing "serious disease" (defined as having to be hospitalized), or​
2. Dramatically increases the likelihood of not being killed by the virus.​

A complication to this is that viruses mutate into various "variants." These variants can sometimes be more adept in evading your immunity cells. And so, you get reinfected more easily. Such is the case with the Omicron variant.

However, the Omicron variant, as much as reinfections are spiking in the general population, hospitalizations and deaths **aren't spiking.** People's immune systems from vaccinations and previous infections are still mounting a good defense.

Also, with everyone going maskless and being less prone to viral-prevention routines, the virus can spread faster.

There are a lot of people being reinfected again and again without even knowing it because they are asymptomatic. The virus is there but not able to do enough damage to notice in symptoms. We only know this from people whose jobs require regularly being tested, like healthcare personnel, athletes, politicians, and, yes, even Dr. Fauci.
 

maemae74

Active Member
Vaccines are not magic. Yes, calling people "immune" and "protected" is just bad use of language. No one is truly immune to a virus for which they were already infected or were vaccinated against.

Nothing can create a magic forcefield around you that stops airborne viruses from being breathed into your nasal passages and lungs (except maybe being isolated on a mountain top or a deserted island). When the virus lands, it will infect and attempt to replicate in an exponential fashion.

If this is a new virus to you, you're body has a few days to a week to find the right protein pattern through trial and error that will dismantle the virus before the virus destroys enough of your organs that you're dead. Anti-viral medications can slow down the replication of some viruses, but, in the end, it will be your immune system that will save you.

Rather than hoping your immune system will work fast enough to kill the virus before the virus kills you, you can train your immune system to 'recognize' the virus and have enough immune cells that know how to kill the virus ahead of time. That can happen in two ways:
1. you already were infected with this virus, and your immune system fought it off​
2. you received a vaccine, which tricked your immune system into thinking it was a real virus, which caused the immune system to be ready to fight off the real virus if ever you were infected​

The vaccine does not stay in your body. It is not sticking around ready to fight off the virus. It is destroyed by your immune system and excreted like any non-welcome chemical in your body (e.g., like with alcohol). Instead, your own immune system is primed and ready to fight off the virus.

And your immune system isn't magic, either. It does not create a forcefield around you keeping viruses from being breathed in. What your immune system does is fight off the invading virus. If you had the virus before, or the vaccine, then your immune system is ready and ahead of the game.

This is why one can be re-infected ("breakthrough infection") even if you've been vaccinated, and even if you've had the virus before.

So, what good is the biological immunity from vaccination or a previous infection?
1. It dramatically increases the likelihood of preventing "serious disease" (defined as having to be hospitalized), or​
2. Dramatically increases the likelihood of not being killed by the virus.​

A complication to this is that viruses mutate into various "variants." These variants can sometimes be more adept in evading your immunity cells. And so, you get reinfected more easily. Such is the case with the Omicron variant.

However, the Omicron variant, as much as reinfections are spiking in the general population, hospitalizations and deaths **aren't spiking.** People's immune systems from vaccinations and previous infections are still mounting a good defense.

Also, with everyone going maskless and being less prone to viral-prevention routines, the virus can spread faster.

There are a lot of people being reinfected again and again without even knowing it because they are asymptomatic. The virus is there but not able to do enough damage to notice in symptoms. We only know this from people whose jobs require regularly being tested, like healthcare personnel, athletes, politicians, and, yes, even Dr. Fauci.
Thank you for the informative response. My question I guess or complaint about Dr. Fauci is that he should have known better than to make those exact claims . It is more than just a gotcha moment because he said it several times and I think was purposely misleading the American people for reasons I can't understand. I think instances like this add to the mistrust those who haven't received the vaccines school of thought and honestly I can understand that.
 
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MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Thank you for the informative response. My question I guess or complaint about Dr. Fauci is that he should have known better than to make those exact claims . It is more than just gotcha moment because he said it several times and I think was purposely misleading the American people for reasons I can't understand. I think instances like this add to the mistrust those who haven't received the vaccines school of thought and honestly I can understand that.
The language of vaccines "immunizing" you, and thus creating in the popular mindset a false understanding, predates Fauci by a hundred years.
 

maemae74

Active Member
The language of vaccines "immunizing" you, and thus creating in the popular mindset a false understanding, predates Fauci by a hundred years.
I don't disagree with that but people like Fauci , a recent past and present POTUS and many people in leadership roles continue to push that idea in regards to the Coivd vaccine. There is so much talk about covid misinformation by this group and yet they continue to be responsible for some of it. Something as simple as your explanation could clear that up for folks.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Vaccines are not magic. Yes, calling people "immune" and "protected" is just bad use of language. No one is truly immune to a virus for which they were already infected or were vaccinated against.

Nothing can create a magic forcefield around you that stops airborne viruses from being breathed into your nasal passages and lungs (except maybe being isolated on a mountain top or a deserted island). When the virus lands, it will infect and attempt to replicate in an exponential fashion.

If this is a new virus to you, you're body has a few days to a week to find the right protein pattern through trial and error that will dismantle the virus before the virus destroys enough of your organs that you're dead. Anti-viral medications can slow down the replication of some viruses, but, in the end, it will be your immune system that will save you.

Rather than hoping your immune system will work fast enough to kill the virus before the virus kills you, you can train your immune system to 'recognize' the virus and have enough immune cells that know how to kill the virus ahead of time. That can happen in two ways:
1. you already were infected with this virus, and your immune system fought it off​
2. you received a vaccine, which tricked your immune system into thinking it was a real virus, which caused the immune system to be ready to fight off the real virus if ever you were infected​

The vaccine does not stay in your body. It is not sticking around ready to fight off the virus. It is destroyed by your immune system and excreted like any non-welcome chemical in your body (e.g., like with alcohol). Instead, your own immune system is primed and ready to fight off the virus.

And your immune system isn't magic, either. It does not create a forcefield around you keeping viruses from being breathed in. What your immune system does is fight off the invading virus. If you had the virus before, or the vaccine, then your immune system is ready and ahead of the game.

This is why one can be re-infected ("breakthrough infection") even if you've been vaccinated, and even if you've had the virus before.

So, what good is the biological immunity from vaccination or a previous infection?
1. It dramatically increases the likelihood of preventing "serious disease" (defined as having to be hospitalized), or​
2. Dramatically increases the likelihood of not being killed by the virus.​

A complication to this is that viruses mutate into various "variants." These variants can sometimes be more adept in evading your immunity cells. And so, you get reinfected more easily. Such is the case with the Omicron variant.

However, the Omicron variant, as much as reinfections are spiking in the general population, hospitalizations and deaths **aren't spiking.** People's immune systems from vaccinations and previous infections are still mounting a good defense.

Also, with everyone going maskless and being less prone to viral-prevention routines, the virus can spread faster.

There are a lot of people being reinfected again and again without even knowing it because they are asymptomatic. The virus is there but not able to do enough damage to notice in symptoms. We only know this from people whose jobs require regularly being tested, like healthcare personnel, athletes, politicians, and, yes, even Dr. Fauci.
Good summary, but one small correction. Omicron caused all those problems not because it was necessarily any better at evading the immune system, but because it bound to the ACE receptor much more tightly and thus was able to replicate much faster than previous variants.

Think of the immune cells stimulated by vaccination as like a reserve army, and one with a small but constant rate of attrition. Having this reserve army puts you way ahead of the curve when the infection arrives, but it still needs to mobilize and replicate itself into sufficient numbers that it can fight effectively against the infection. The more attrition it suffers before the infection arrives, the longer the mobilization takes to become an effective army.

Delta and omicron didn't escape the immunity from vaccination, they were just able to get a pretty good head-start before the memory cells could fully engage.
 
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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
That actually sounds wonderful. Im already tired of the heat. Everyone is moving south as they get older.. I may be your new neighbor, I'm going north. Winters not as wintery.. summers getting way to hot.. 50’s in June has my attention.
Sounds nice. One guy from my school spends summers in ME and rest of the year in FL, retired and loving it. It’s a long drive though.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
I don't recall high school biology nor do I base my view on vaccines off of one quote.

It has been explained many times in the last couple of years what vaccines do, and what they don't do. At this point, anyone not grasping this is willfully ignorant, or just trolling.

Using this as a "gotcha" moment against Fauci accomplishes little other than it allows people to once again declare their ignorance for the world to see.
Fauci and other experts were touting the COVID vaccines as tools to significantly reduce transmission and lead to herd immunity and eventual eradication.

Let's dispense with the revisionist history that this wasn't the case. Fauci and others are on the record and on video discussing the percentage vaccinated required for hers immunity. This was 100% the goal of these vaccines.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Fauci and other experts were touting the COVID vaccines as tools to significantly reduce transmission and lead to herd immunity and eventual eradication.

Let's dispense with the revisionist history that this wasn't the case. Fauci and others are on the record and on video discussing the percentage vaccinated required for hers immunity. This was 100% the goal of these vaccines.
A goal, the hardest to reach, but not the only one. They didn’t unfortunately.

The vaccines have turned Covid essentialy into the flu, the number one goal has always been limiting deaths and hospitalizations. The vaccines have been wildly successful towards those goals.
 
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