Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure I saw Paul Rudd in a medieval illumination...Nah...That is Paul Rudd. And didn't they use him to push vaccines?
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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Now that's loyal patients right there! Traveling more than 1K miles for medical . Would not be surprised if quality of medical care in Northeast is better.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
As I’ve pointed out before, the sphericity of the earth has been an accepted fact among most educated people since antiquity [ETA: I see @Heppenheimer beat me to it.] You’ll need to find a better example if you want to shame science. (And really, why would you? Like everyone else here, you rely on scientific expertise every day of your life. Be grateful for it.)
I have heard a story of a veteran that so preferred the White River Junction VT VA so much more than any VA in FL that when they had an issue, they "borrowed" two oxygen tanks from the one in FL and drove the trip North. It's possible the story is they made it as far as GA before acquiring the tanks along the way north.
It ended well, they made it to VT and got their preferred care. They were told that oxygen tanks aren't like rental cars where they can be returned to any location.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
Well, they live here during the summer. Not for the medical care, but for the more pleasant weather. Same reason they go back to Florida in the winter.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Just to set the record straight, here is what Fauci has said more recently about the vaccines (CNN link chosen deliberately for the purpose):
amp.cnn.com
There is no “gotcha” to be had here.
"Omicron, with its extraordinary, unprecedented degree of efficiency of transmissibility, will ultimately find just about everybody," Dr. Anthony Fauci told J. Stephen Morrison, senior vice president of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "Those who have been vaccinated ... and boosted would get exposed. Some, maybe a lot of them, will get infected but will very likely, with some exceptions, do reasonably well in the sense of not having hospitalization and death."
The highly contagious Omicron variant will 'find just about everybody,' Fauci says, but vaccinated people will still fare better
Covid-19 hospitalizations in the United States have reached a new record high, surpassing the previous peak from January 2021, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services.
amp.cnn.com
There is no “gotcha” to be had here.
If for a medical item , no hospital in FL compares to the quality of medical care of Johns Hopkins in MD and Mass General in Boston.
TheGuyThatMakesSwords
Well-Known Member
Seriously - if OLD, or you had to get a SMALLPOX vaccination to go overseas?
You actually have a decent degree of protection
."Because Monkeypox virus is closely related to the virus that causes smallpox, the smallpox vaccine can protect people from getting monkeypox."
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
Just can't have any fun, can you?
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Paul Rudd is Benjamin Button. Fauci looks his age (167 years old according to sources). He was first director of NIAID under Pres. Theodore Roosevelt and has served at the pleasure of every President since.Nah...That is Paul Rudd. And didn't they use him to push vaccines?
OrlandoRising
Well-Known Member
I'm that annoying guy whose day job is reporting on health misinformation. Since a few members of this board seem to keep promoting it, here I am.
The vaccines were much more effective against preventing symptomatic infection with the ancestral strain and even delta. You can't transmit when you're not infected -- therefore, yes, it was reasonable to think vaccines would significantly reduce transmission.
But vaccine uptake was less than expected, a virus which had been relatively stable through 2020 began to have significant variants circulate, and vaccine protection waned (and considering the emergency that existed in 2020, we didn't have the time to study duration of protection). None of that was absolutely foreseeable in, say, December 2020 or January 2021. And by the time omicron came around, "herd immunity" was a pipe dream.
The vaccines cannot be considered to be failure considering how they've reduced hospitalizations and deaths
Prior infection was much better than two doses alone when it came to protection against infection -- with the caveat that the two-dose people had their second shots 8 months prior, so waning immunity isn't a surprise. But against severe cases of COVID-19, two doses and prior infection performed about the same. The study also noted that prior infection immunity waned much more slowly than vaccine protection, but wane it did: protection against omicron infection was 54.9% 12 months after prior infection.
Prior infection AND vaccination was always the strongest, however, so there is a reason for the previously infected to get vaccinated. Here's a good writeup on the study: How Vaccine Immunity, Prior Infection Hold Up Against BA.2
The FDA's vaccine panel meets later this month to discuss potential boosters for the fall tailored to a variant rather than the ancestral strain.
That's all before omicron happened and that's the caveat you seem to be omitting.
The vaccines were much more effective against preventing symptomatic infection with the ancestral strain and even delta. You can't transmit when you're not infected -- therefore, yes, it was reasonable to think vaccines would significantly reduce transmission.
But vaccine uptake was less than expected, a virus which had been relatively stable through 2020 began to have significant variants circulate, and vaccine protection waned (and considering the emergency that existed in 2020, we didn't have the time to study duration of protection). None of that was absolutely foreseeable in, say, December 2020 or January 2021. And by the time omicron came around, "herd immunity" was a pipe dream.
The vaccines cannot be considered to be failure considering how they've reduced hospitalizations and deaths
There actually was a study just released in the New England Journal of Medicine comparing the protection against omicron infection and severe cases from prior infection to two Pfizer doses to three doses AND two/three doses + prior infection.
Prior infection was much better than two doses alone when it came to protection against infection -- with the caveat that the two-dose people had their second shots 8 months prior, so waning immunity isn't a surprise. But against severe cases of COVID-19, two doses and prior infection performed about the same. The study also noted that prior infection immunity waned much more slowly than vaccine protection, but wane it did: protection against omicron infection was 54.9% 12 months after prior infection.
Prior infection AND vaccination was always the strongest, however, so there is a reason for the previously infected to get vaccinated. Here's a good writeup on the study: How Vaccine Immunity, Prior Infection Hold Up Against BA.2
Boosters were never recommended in this country only two months apart and they're not going to be now.
The FDA's vaccine panel meets later this month to discuss potential boosters for the fall tailored to a variant rather than the ancestral strain.
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LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
On the contrary, I love having fun! I’m a Disney fan, after all. I just don’t find anti-science talking points (no matter how jocularly framed) amusing.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
Try not building a reputation as a contrarian over the past few years, then maybe people might take your "jokes" a little more lightly.
EDIT: Especially not for something like COVID, where "counterfacts"can get people sick, hospitalized and/or dead.
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Prince-1
Well-Known Member
Well said.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
It’s not your job around here. Just post your opinion and what you know to be true (or think to be true) like the rest of us.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
This has been the issue from day one. Opinions are not the same as facts and making facts opinions or presenting opinions as facts is a massive problem. They are not the same and using opinions not based in science to back a narrative causes issues with the health care industry.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
This is why I take everything here as opinion. As one should when on an internet forum. Good practice IMO.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of the word "fact" when used in a scientific context, and especially for an evolving subject like COVID. A "fact" is a legal concept, for something that verifiably did or did not happen. Science and medicine aren't driven by unalterable absolutes, but by a consensus agreement among qualified peers on what the best available data shows. Look at the data from a new angle, make a more precise measurement than was possible before, use a new technique or throw in a new variable, and the consensus can change. COVID is somewhat unique in recent medical history in that a huge amount of research came out in a very short time, and the actual behavior of the virus also changed rapidly. So, we were constantly drowning in new data to interpret while also swimming uphill against a rapidly evolving virus.
So, over the past few years, I've learned to almost ignore when people use verbiage like "And that's a fact", because like use of the word "literally" has evolved to actually mean "figuratively", "and that's a fact" now almost means "And that's my opinion".
So, over the past few years, I've learned to almost ignore when people use verbiage like "And that's a fact", because like use of the word "literally" has evolved to actually mean "figuratively", "and that's a fact" now almost means "And that's my opinion".
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Eh, there is a place for facts. In biology, that typically applies to structure over function. “Monkeys have tails” or ”the virus that causes Covid-19 has spike proteins.”
When it comes to function, we have hypotheses and, with a lot of support, theories. And this is why, in any developing areas of inquiry, scientists will say some variation of “the current thinking is…”. Physiology is where things get updated over time.
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