Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[easyrowrdw]

I have been wondering if there could potentially be another public health impact with the asymptomatic population... I have seen some stories here and there (like this one) that indicate there may be some lasting organ damage in the asymptomatic group:

Studies profile lung changes in asymptomatic COVID-19, viral loads in patient samples

www.cidrap.umn.edu

There hasn’t been a lot of coverage on this angle yet. This is something that, along with the true % of asymptomatic cases, we apparently know next to nothing about... but it strikes me as something that could have a huge impact on recovery efforts. If it turns out there are potential longer term health impacts even in those that show no immediate symptoms, then testing and tracing become even more important to minimize the population affected in that way. It may not be a good plan to just let most of the population get it, count on them being asymptomatic, and that not having consequence.

Also confusing the ‘asymptomatic’ issue is that apparently many ‘asymptomatic’ cases, when interviewed, do actually report being affected by mild symptoms. Those mild symptoms can vary substantially from the ‘fever and cough’ that most have been clued to be alert to. One way that it can manifest is by affecting the heart, and potentially in ways that might not be immediately obvious to a patient as a symptom but would show up on advanced cardiac diagnostics:

COVID-19's consequences for the heart

Heart damage has recently emerged as yet another grim outcome in the virus's repertoire of possible complications.

news.harvard.edu

That's interesting, though I'm a little confused by the sample. They're referred to as asymptomatic, but everyone in the sample had been admitted to the hospital. Most people aren't admitted so there may be issues of a non-representative sample. I'd be interested in knowing the practical implications of having 2.8 "affected lung segments" and how that compares to other lung conditions. Thanks for sharing the article.

 

[DisneyCane]

Would it be better for them to "feel safe" and die.

I won't go to the grocery stores that don't require masks. We wouldn't go out to eat if the waitstaff wasn't wearing one.

Most people I think will be rational and feel safer seeing precautions because at this point it is understood this is real and we need to take it seriously.

Although it is real, if you drill down into the statistics, the risk to any individual of even getting a symptomatic infection is incredibly low. Even in, by far the worst outbreak in the country (and possibly the World) in the NYC metropolitan area, approximately 1.5% of the population has tested positive so far. Even in the highest risk groups only maybe 4% of those cases will be fatal. That is 0.06% of the population.

Anywhere outside of a hotspot, your chance of becoming infected even without any protection is very small and your chance of getting infected AND dying is extremely tiny.

 

[Polynesia]

Funny you should share this. I went to the grocery store yesterday and felt much the same way. I felt a strange uneasiness around customers who had on masks and/or gloves, but almost no concern around those with no protection. But, the fact that the workers were wearing protection did not produce the same feeling. Weird...

I felt safer at Publix with everyone who wore masks. I didn’t have to worry someone was going to cough on me or vice versa. The damage done by this virus to our emotional health is going to be something we have to work through eventually.

 

[shernernum]

That's a nice gesture but not really what the police need is more cookies. Adds to the obesity epidemic and diabetic rising rates of our country.

lighten up Francis

 

[DCBaker]

New York and DC also issued similar orders today -

"Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan on Wednesday issued an executive order requiring masks or face coverings for those inside retail establishments or riding any public transportation in the state as Maryland continues to face the coronavirus pandemic.

The order, which will also apply to staff members at those businesses, will go into effect at 7 a.m. Saturday, giving retailers time to put appropriate social distancing measures in place."

Gov. Hogan mandates masks in stores, on transit; warns against quick end to measures to contain the coronavirus

Gov. Larry Hogan is requiring masks or face coverings to be worn in stores and on public transit beginning Saturday, as Maryland continues to face the coronavirus pandemic. The order, which Hogan a…

www.baltimoresun.com

 

[easyrowrdw]

Harvard is not working for the government. But by your definition, we shouldn't trust anyone with whom you don't agree. Got it.

I assumed the poster was referring to grants, which fund a large percentage of research at major universities (and contributed to the funding of the article cited).

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[Nubs70]

I think offices are in a sticky situation because you have people sitting for 8 to 10 hours together in very close proximity to each other. I think about 23 of the 35 of us on one floor got sick in the first 2 weeks of December.

For an office you need 6 feet between desks plus and additional 12 feet so people can walk through the office and remain 6 ft from any desk for a total of 18 ft total radius per desk.

For an office of 10 persons, you need

Yes, you've hopefully seen photos like the Detroit hospital using sleep study rooms to store bodies because the morgue couldnt take them.

converting spaces doesn't enlist all that capacity though which is where these "the hospitals are empty" rhetoric is coming from. Huge portions of the medical industry being idled due to changes in behavior and what procedures are being done.

but none of that changes that the portions in contention are still in contention!


Its just more fud and bs talking points aimed at the people too eager ro listen instead of understanding

My wife's hospital is on the other side of the state is at 50% occupancy and has been waiting on the surge for 2 weeks now

 

[DisneyDebRob]

There are a lot of studies in progress, and it's probably too soon to draw conclusions from any of them.

But, I do agree with the original post (not yours) that all studies have some type of agenda (political or otherwise) behind them. There is something to prove and the study is used to prove a point.

I really struggle with what "experts" or studies to believe at this point. Heck, even the studies and "facts" on man-made climate change are not universally accepted by all scientists, and that has been studied to death for a LOT longer than this virus. (Warning: no need to hijack this discussion with arguments about climate change).

Oh boy.

 

[flynnibus]

My wife's hospital is on the other side of the state is at 50% occupancy and has been waiting on the surge for 2 weeks now

Yes, the demand on our system isn't uniform... as neither is our capacity nor population. But that doesn't mean the demand doesn't exist in places - which is what these facts get twisted into. So now the talking point of the week is to question if any of this 'burden' on our hospitals is even real...

 

[DisneyCane]

Banned. Sorry

There's a joke to be made here given the stay at home orders but I will refrain!

 

[seabreezept813]

Anecdote here.. but had me thinking about new security at Disney. Had a bloodwork appt today at a building adjacent to a Ma hospital. Had to discard the gloves and mask I brought, use hand sanitizer in front of staff, use their provided masks and gloves, and had to wait to get approved by three phone calls because my husband delivers food to CT, NY, and NJ. He’s not allowed to get out the truck at “hot spots” but technically travels there. Also had a temperature scan. I was the only person at the clinic and just getting in was a 10+ minute process. It just made me wonder how in the world required mask wearing, temp checks, etc would ever work at Disney. I’m guessing they’ll def wait until society in general can relax some of these types of restrictions.

 

[DKampy]

I live in Ozaukee county also! Talk to the dr's here and they will tell you they had ~70 cases, many hospitalized that were all denied testing as early as mid-february. A lot of families went to Europe for travel over the winter mid break late January and Early February...and many returned sick but only China was still valid for testing at the time per cdc rules...

Yesterday at a local grocery store, the workers weren't wearing masks and most men 55-75 were not in masks. The 30 somethings were either in masks or in camo, no mask and coughing.... ugh

I live in Ozaukee county also! Talk to the dr's here and they will tell you they had ~70 cases, many hospitalized that were all denied testing as early as mid-february. A lot of families went to Europe for travel over the winter mid break late January and Early February...and many returned sick but only China was still valid for testing at the time per cdc rules...

Yesterday at a local grocery store, the workers weren't wearing masks and most men 55-75 were not in masks. The 30 somethings were either in masks or in camo, no mask and coughing.... ugh

I live in Ozaukee county also! Talk to the dr's here and they will tell you they had ~70 cases, many hospitalized that were all denied testing as early as mid-february. A lot of families went to Europe for travel over the winter mid break late January and Early February...and many returned sick but only China was still valid for testing at the time per cdc rules...

Yesterday at a local grocery store, the workers weren't wearing masks and most men 55-75 were not in masks. The 30 somethings were either in masks or in camo, no mask and coughing.... ugh

I believe it...I am 95 percent sure I had it...it started with a cough then a fever of a 104..then came the shortness of breath...I even mentioned to my wife I feel like I am dyeing and even mentioned to her someone tested positive for that Coronavirus from China in Wisconsin...she said I was being dramatic(which I tend to do sometimes)you have the flu and that was 1 person who came back from China. I did not get tested for the flu, but it did not feel like the flu.

 

[WDW862]

Anecdote here.. but had me thinking about new security at Disney. Had a bloodwork appt today at a building adjacent to a Ma hospital. Had to discard the gloves and mask I brought, use hand sanitizer in front of staff, use their provided masks and gloves, and had to wait to get approved by three phone calls because my husband delivers food to CT, NY, and NJ. He’s not allowed to get out the truck at “hot spots” but technically travels there. Also had a temperature scan. I was the only person at the clinic and just getting in was a 10+ minute process. It just made me wonder how in the world required mask wearing, temp checks, etc would ever work at Disney. I’m guessing they’ll def wait until society in general can relax some of these types of restrictions.

I'm hoping that we can have a rapid test that could be mass manufactured. If you test positive for COVID, you're refunded and sent home.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

It’s sad that people have such a low opinion of experts. No decent scientist behaves the way you describe—openness to alternative findings and an ability to admit error are key to the scientific method. I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions to this, but the idea that most experts are tendentiously serving an agenda just isn’t true.

That sir is the biggest problem we have today. It bleeds into everything we do. If there is no confidence in our science or scientists, and for some unknown reason it’s been dropping from a lot of people in our country, we are doomed. Means less money for everything. Means less facts. Means when a pandemic comes around the world is not prepared. Trust our science and our leaders in that area and we will all be better off. Will they get it wrong on occasion? Of course.. but I can guarantee when the find that they are wrong they correct it. That’s science and we all need it.

 

[GoofGoof]

By the time we get to page 1,000 of this thread we need a consensus opinion on the missing comma from that post . Was it left out due to an abundance of caution? Is it perhaps sheltering in place? Was it left off due to a ban on gatherings of more than 10 commas? Probably the most important question of all, will the comma be back when WDW re-opens or will it be unceremoniously cancelled like all of the live entertainment and other fun stuff?

 

[_caleb]

If you don't trust the government, then those that are insisting we reopen things are most likely suggesting the correct course of action, as we the people need to be willing to stand up and say we will not let our rights be trampled in the name of safety, which would also include reopening the theme parks.

So the reality is the theme parks and other entertainment venues need to reopen in the relatively near future, not matter which position you take, otherwise we are looking at death and disease on a scale we can't even begin to fathom.

This over-simplification (and false dichotomy) makes it hard for me to know how to engage in a meaningful conversation here.

But keeping the thread on-topic, Disney needs to open in oder to stay in business. They have an interest in opening up as soon as possible. But Disney also needs to keep people safe in order to stay in business, so they have an interest in staying closed (and demonstrating that they're making the parks as safe as possible for guests and CMs). Some of us may trust Disney (and The Government!) more than others, but we all will have to make informed decisions about returning to the parks.

I think it Disney is going to stay closed for a while and also make some fundamental changes to the park experience in order to lure people back when things open up again.

I'm not attacking @cmwade77, just noticing some big differences in the way they see the world and the way I do. I imagine there are lots of folks here who agree with both perspectives. Happy to have a place we can express these things agreeably, though.

 

[natatomic]

I'm hoping that we can have a rapid test that could be mass manufactured. If you test positive for COVID, you're refunded and sent home.

How? If Disney won’t let them into the parks, airlines aren’t going to let a covid positive person on their plane? What hotels are going to allow a Covid-positive person stay in their room, contaminating everything? Or even if a hotel does allow them to stay, are they going to be forced to shell out the additional money that they’ll to pay for the 14 day quarantine, which is more than likely longer than their initial vacation length? Are they going to have to pay more money to change their flight home once they’re clear? Obviously, this doesn’t apply to those who drive, but that’s not everyone).

 

[DisneyCane]

I'm hoping that we can have a rapid test that could be mass manufactured. If you test positive for COVID, you're refunded and sent home.

As it applies to WDW, the rapid test takes too long to try and test everybody. It's 13 minutes per person plus the time to get the sample. The machine only does 1 at a time so you'd need at least several hundred at each park entrance.

Then there's the cost. I found an article that said the cost of the rapid flu test is around $45 per test. I assume that takes into account amortizing the cost of the machine. Neither Disney nor the insurance companies are going to eat that cost for everybody to get tested at WDW. Would you be willing to pay $45 a day extra to be allowed to enter? I wouldn't.

 

[_caleb]

Not that this likely means much in the end, but...

I have clients who (against my recommendations) rescheduled their trip to a June 3rd check-in when their May dates were canceled. I've been trying to re book their dining and FastPasses over the last week or so, and today an incredible amount of availability opened for both. With the exception of 7DMT and Avatar, just about everything else was available.

From an operations perspective, actively adding availability seems to indicate that they still think opening in some form on 6/1 is possible?

From Disney's perspective, it makes sense to keep people "in the pipeline" for visits by pushing the projected opening date incrementally rather than announcing a reopening date far in the future. This way, people stay "invested" and demand stays high for when they actually do open. It can be hard on families who get their hopes up about their vacation only to see them postponed again and again, but it's better for Disney to keep people on the hook rather then let them take their money elsewhere.