Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Analysts reporting that attendance, once Disney is open won’t be back to pre closure attendance for 2 years.
So much for the record crowds back within a few weeks. Could happen I guess but not likely.
I think this is the most fascinating topic to watch in the 25 year history of Disney chatboards
Much moreso than the typical parade/fireworks nonsense
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Leaving the school year in limbo was the reason there wasn’t a firm plan. How much do you dedicate to distance learning if it ends in a few weeks? Now they know it goes for the remainder of the school year. There needs to be a firm plan. If they don’t have one then that’s on the district or schools that fail to make one. Distance learning sucks, but at least we aren’t waiting around for the other shoe to drop.
I guess I just disagree. We are doing Distance learning till at least The middle of May. So we plan for that. If it has to be extended then we extend it closer to that date. No one is planning out 2 months of lessons anyway. It’s impossible for teachers to do that. So, Do we really need to cancel the last month of in class learning now? I am not saying it’s wrong to cancel school, I am saying it’s wrong to rush into it. If there’s a chance we could send the kids back, hold on to that chance.
If they decided to stay closed then it is just a continuation of what is going on. If they decided to reopen then they just need however long it takes to have maintenance check the buildings and busses.
Exactly. Distance learning will get a little better as teachers get more experience, but there’s no time for it to get revamped and brought up to a high standard. We are going to continue on this basic path. Canceling the last month of school now makes zero difference in the level of instruction kids are going to get in the remote learning sphere.
The same state where the governor is imploring COBOL programmers to come maintain a 40+ year old unemployment benefits system? Shocking.
Our governor is a total disaster. True enough.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
There are conflicting reports and testing is still Insufficient. I’m still hoping for the best...but the one recurring thing about this whole situation is people latch onto one detail and spin it into a complete reality. The numbers spiked for 3 or so days last weeks and have settled a lower pattern. But the net has gone up 25% this week. What if the “lower” pattern holds stable for 10 days? That’s not mathematically or medically “better” if you look at it from an endgame term.

What I find interesting is that the number of “cleared” cases so low. That combined with no exposure testing and one test administered per roughly 150 people at most so far gives me pause.

The percentage of hospitalizations of confirmed cases has held steady at around 13%. With the "inadequate" testing, I can tell you for a fact that every suspected case in a hospital is tested. If the total new cases per day was increasing but the reported number being held down by testing capacity, the percentage hospitalized would be going up in the statistics.

Yes, there are likely more cases than confirmed both in total and on a daily basis. The pattern is what is important and the pattern clearly shows that Florida has reached a plateau. The shape of the curve is reflecting reality even if the total numbers aren't.

I don't understand why you think the net number of confirmed cases going up 25% is a bad thing. That is a great sign. If that increase is in a week's time, it means total cases would double every 3 weeks. This is compared to doubling every 2-3 days in an uncontrolled outbreak. The net number of cases never goes down.

Based on everything we keep being told, that is much better from an endgame standpoint because it prevents overwhelming of the health care system by spreading out the cases.

As far as the cleared cases, if it takes 3 weeks for somebody to be virus free, there are only around 300 confirmed cases that are older than 21 days in Florida. I also don't know what the testing and reporting process is for recoveries.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
You think the government and educators in that state didn't want students to return to school?
Educators want to go back. Admin and government, if they are canceling now, don’t. They want one more thing off their plates. They don’t want to plan for two outcomes.
There are friends and teachers they don't get to say bye to, interact with and in some cases, will never see again. That's rough on the psyche of a child.
Exactly. So why rush to cancel.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
The initial guidance from the experts was that the primary way the virus spread was through prolonged, close contact with an infected person or through surface contamination and transfer. Now there are all kinds of suggestions of widespread transmission by asymptomatic patients simply talking to people.

The examples of the Orlando, Dallas and Houston metropolitan areas lead me to believe that whether asymptomatic or symptomatic, transmission requires prolonged, close contact or surface contamination. If brief interactions with patients who didn't cough or sneeze during the interaction were highly contagious, I would expect front line theme park employees and airline flight attendants to be infected at a very high rate. The current data of outbreak geographic areas suggests otherwise.

I'm not saying the virus isn't more contagious than things like the flu. However, the picture being presented by some is that it spreads like wildfire if you are briefly close to an infected person, no matter if they are symptomatic or asymptomatic.
I'm not sure that's how I would describe it. The key factor seems to be the ability of an infected person to spit on you or on a surface you immediately touch. Talking, singing, coughing, sneezing, hugs & kisses, handshakes etc. So casual contact, where people don't speak to each other and nobody coughs or sneezes, like passing each other in a grocery store appears to be low risk. The cashier who is asking about your day, and handling your money is higher risk. Sitting with your co-workers in a conference room where a primary speaker is infected appears to be high risk. Sitting in an auditorium, with an infected person on stage, is lower risk. The guy sitting next to you, going on and on about how much of an idiot the speaker is, higher risk. It can spread like wildfire if given the right conditions, as the choir practice, bridge tournament, funerals, and parties have indicated. I am not sure it has to be a lot of spit to infect, so is a 5 minute meeting, where the words that are spoken leads to more spit, safer because it's not prolonged? Longer interactions provide more opportunity, but if it only takes one well-placed spittle?

And density absolutely matters. So in that regards, LA would fare better than NYC. The epidemiologists talk about sparks. Not every spark turns into a wildfire. Someone who lives alone, in a single family dwelling, driving their own car, working from home or in a spacious office is going to have less opportunity to spread a virus than someone taking mass transit, working in a small office space, and living in an apartment building with 5 people in a 1000 sq ft space. Even how people eat varies a lot. Haven't been to NYC, but have been to Europe, and for someone who grew up out west, it takes a little getting used to how packed a cafe can be, where tables are tightly spaced, or counters where parties who don't know each other sit next to each other. Sharing tables is very uncommon in the places I have lived, except in one English-style pub. Eating provides another prime opportunity for spit sharing, for the people closest to you.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
People get sick... viral infections happen all the time.. Doctor's don't pursue details because treatment is the same.. that doesn't mean it was likely covid-19...

Scientists... not Karen... have the ability to trace the lineage of the viruses we sample.
Agreed. Still, it would be interesting to know how many people got sick with moderate to severe symptoms and tested negative for known viruses prior to the COVID-19's known arrival in the US, and whether it would be considered a "normal" year, and if higher than normal, how much higher.
 

Seanual757

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, don’t misunderstand, I’m not trying to suggest a conspiracy theory. And I’m sure many, if not most CMs were at least exposed and many probably became asymptomatic. And like I said, I know only a fraction of a fraction of all the CMs, so I of course can’t say with certainty that ZERO got sick (keyword: sick, not asymptomatic). But, just looking at the number of positives in the 4 surrounding counties, it’s within the realm of possibility. It’s just weird. It does make me wonder if there’s some merit to doing things differently to what we’re doing. Maybe CMs were exposed to many small numbers of people who were positive for the virus over time and it gave their bodies a better chance to develop antibodies and fight it off? I’m not sure how it works, but again, I just can’t understand how more people in this area aren’t sick, given the sheer numbers of people, both CMs and guests here at any given time. 🤷🏻‍♀️

We stayed on site from March 5-8 Jambo house at this time Disney was already keeping distancing as well as beefing up the cleaning of the resorts and parks. We had several hand sanitizing stations at the resorts and the parks as well as plenty of handless hand washing stations.

Now social distancing was not happening at the time (but guests were not crowded together like the normally are and CM’s were not asking folks to pack in either and over the course of the 3 days we were at parks we saw 1 person sneeze (trust me we counted) , they had plenty of CM’s wiping down railings at the parks and resorts, wiping down the elevators, front desks, door handles.

The busses were not as packed as they normally are, lines at the parks were down as well that week as well as the following week.

It seemed people were far more cautious of people around them and what they were touching.

Could this have helped sure, we noticed it even more the following week we were at Disney crowds were defiantly down.

I can see how exposure and the numbers were down the same could be said for airline crews traveling to and from Europe and China how come more were not infected.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
2 years to get back to normal business is extreme uncharted territory. Disney execs are going to have to navigate these choppy waters with hopefully good but tough decision making.
I would argue that 2 years was in some ways comparable to getting made to normal after 9/11.

Although at this point we don’t know if it will really take that long, or if it will be even longer.
 

Seanual757

Well-Known Member
My mom (not a CM, but she lives just down the street) had a bad cough for about 3 weeks in December. My husband had one too, but not as bad.

I can tell you something was going around in Central Florida during that time period I had a bad cough and head cold, and I knew dozens of others that did as well.
 

Lora Baines Bradley

Well-Known Member
I would argue that 2 years was in some ways comparable to getting made to normal after 9/11.

Although at this point we don’t know if it will really take that long, or if it will be even longer.
Personally I think it will be less than 2 years if only from guest attendance. People want a return to normalcy and i feel the atmosphere is different than 9/11 (but then again i was super young at the time and am relying on reports).
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I would argue that 2 years was in some ways comparable to getting made to normal after 9/11.

Although at this point we don’t know if it will really take that long, or if it will be even longer.
After 9/11, there was not record numbers of millions of people of all income levels collecting unemployment, residents not able long term to make rent/mortgage payments, peoples paper net worth in stock markets free falling like a guest riding Blizzard Beach Summit Plummet. This will make many re-think discretionary spending ( ie vacations ) . Orlando is nothing without the tourism market.
 
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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Personally I think it will be less than 2 years if only from guest attendance. People want a return to normalcy and i feel the atmosphere is different than 9/11 (but then again i was super young at the time and am relying on reports).

People were afraid to fly after 9/11 because they knew the passengers on those flights had no chance to survive and everybody saw the horrific video of the planes crashing into the WTC. It also made people feel like the terrorists were brilliant in their planning (which the attack was) so they were likely planning other attacks on high profile targets like WDW or Las Vegas.

In my opinion, this situation is different because, although you have a higher likelihood of being infected with the virus than of being involved in a terrorist attack, if you are infected you have a pretty high chance to survive (even if you are old or have an underlying condition). If a terrorist hijacks your plane to use it as a missile, you have no chance to survive. If a terrorist bombed the Magic Kingdom you'd be very likely to be killed or seriously injured.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I guess I just disagree. We are doing Distance learning till at least The middle of May. So we plan for that. If it has to be extended then we extend it closer to that date. No one is planning out 2 months of lessons anyway. It’s impossible for teachers to do that. So, Do we really need to cancel the last month of in class learning now? I am not saying it’s wrong to cancel school, I am saying it’s wrong to rush into it. If there’s a chance we could send the kids back, hold on to that chance.
There are logistical and budget concerns too though. For example if a school needs more chrome books for students or needs to invest more money in software to make distance learning better it helps to know that the money budgeted for gas for busses and maintenance and upkeep of the facilities can be be reallocated to distance learning supplies. In my district students under 5th grade didn’t have chrome books and they were asking families to use their own device or share with older siblings, now they are supplying every student a chrome book. Just one example.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
After 9/11, there was not record numbers of millions of people of all income levels collecting unemployment, residents not able long term to make rent/mortgage payments, peoples paper net worth in stock markets free falling like a guest riding water park Summit Plummet. This will make many re-think discretionary spending ( ie vacations ) . Orlando is nothing without the tourism market.

That is true but so much will be done to stimulate the economy that I believe it will bounce back relatively quickly. In 2008 the fundamentals were weak which is why recovery took time. If the shut down is only for 2 months or so, stimulus can reset the "game" back to the last save point before the intentional shutdown. It won't instantly go back to exactly where it was and keep growing as it would have but it isn't going to be another prolonged "great recession."

Now, if they try to keep the shutdown going for 4 months or more then all bets are off.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Analysts reporting that attendance, once Disney is open won’t be back to pre closure attendance for 2 years.
So much for the record crowds back within a few weeks. Could happen I guess but not likely.
One thing to take from this is it’s just an analyst model and they have no way to forecast attendance so they are conservatively saying none for the rest of this fiscal year. It doesn’t mean the parks won’t open. If they open in a limited capacity they may not be very profitable anyway so the model may just show zero.

On a positive note, the analyst who is saying no parks through 9/30 and attendance 50% down for up to 2 years is still only downgrading the stock to a hold, not even a sell. For those stating TWDC would be bankrupt and selling off pieces by the summer of the parks didn’t re-open I think this tells you that actual analysts that follow the company disagree.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
After 9/11, there was not record numbers of millions of people of all income levels collecting unemployment, residents not able long term to make rent/mortgage payments, peoples paper net worth in stock markets free falling like a guest riding Blizzard Beach Summit Plummet. This will make many re-think discretionary spending ( ie vacations ) . Orlando is nothing without the tourism market.
This is true. But a lot has been done and will be done to mitigate this. While millions have lost jobs and are collecting unemployment those jobs could come back quickly once things return to “normal.”

Just look at WDW. Tens of thousands are being furloughed and not working. They will collect unemployment. Once WDW can reopen their jobs will come back. Maybe not all of them but that remains to be seen. And those people will on average be armed with more money than they would have had if the parks had never closed. It’s really too early to tell what the impact of all this will be.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
Educators want to go back. Admin and government, if they are canceling now, don’t. They want one more thing off their plates. They don’t want to plan for two outcomes.

So your family of teachers wants to setup a plan... start it... then want to have it changed... and then maybe changed again.. and still not be given a promise it won't change again... all while trying to maintain some sort of fixed target of what the kids should get?

All while the tools you have, the way you can grade, and what material you are allowed to cover changes with each of those 'unknown change points' in the next two months?

Maybe you do... but it sure sounds like the opinion of someone not carrying the bag.
 

easyrowrdw

Well-Known Member
I think reasonable minds can differ on this, but I'd much rather kids returned even if only for 2-3 weeks. I don't think there is much "ramping back up" as another poster said - this is what the schools/teachers do. Even at the beginning of the school year there are only 2-3 days to get into the full swing of things and that is after a summer break where there hasn't been distance learning going on.

Distance learning has been a fine substitute when there is no alternative, but I don't think it has been an adequate replacement for in-class learning. I agree with @xdan0920 that any classroom time is better than no classroom time.

I agree. The teachers here were ready to begin classes again after Spring Break before the closure was announced. They have the year already planned out. I don't see why it would take weeks to get ready to return. Obviously they can't just pick up where they left off, but it's not the same as starting the school year. Our district is still planning to return in early May for the final four weeks of classes. I know my kids are anxious to return even if it's only for a short time. The teacher seem ready to also. Beyond the learning, it gives kids a chance to see their friends again before the summer.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
Why? What is the rush to make these decisions. Who does it benefit?
The children, for one. The limbo was incredibly hard on my daughter. Knowing it's closed for the year is still hard, but it's not nearly as difficult as constant limbo.

My nephews are in PA. This whole situation has been very hard on them and their family also. Knowing for certain makes it easier to transition than leaving it up in the air.
 
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