Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[John park hopper]

People under house arrest with ankle bracelets seem to manage to leave all the time how are you going to keep normal people essentially under house arrest?

 

[John park hopper]

Leaves will work , also plain old water and make sure you wash your hands, birch bark, kleenex, newspaper, junk mail, to name few if you can't find TP.

don't forget the old stand by corn cobs Ha HA

 

[DisneyCane]

Wow! You are wrong. The US has constitutional power, via chief executive, to do anything it deems necessary to secure the safety of its citizenry

Please cite the relevant sections of the constitution and case law that gives this power to the President. You are 100% wrong.

During crisis or national emergency Chief executive enjoys, effectively, absolute powers. Chief executive acts as an agent for the US as a whole under these circumstances.
Chief may imprison without trial, suspend habeas corpus doctrine or order curfew at will.
Chief has the constitutional power.

Again, please cite the relevant law. The POTUS does not remotely have absolute power even in a National Emergency.

Commerce Clause and Executive Order 13295. Yes. They can.

First of all, what I said was that the US Federal Government can not lock down cities the way that other Governments around the world have done.

Executive Order 13295 references sections of the US Code which apply to people entering the country, not to citizens.

The commerce clause does not give the Federal Government the power to do anything within the borders of a State. It does give them powers to regulate commerce between States. This would include, as I stated, the power to prevent travel into/out of a State.

It can possibly be construed that if there is a risk for a disease to spread from state to state that the Federal Government may be able to order quarantines of individuals but this would likely be challenged in court. The Federal Government absolutely does not have the authority to order Orlando, for example, to be locked down nor to they have the authority to force the State of Florida to do it. The State of Florida may have the authority to do it but I have not read the relevant sections of the State Code or State Constitution.

Read the CDC's own web page on this exact subject matter:

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html

Specific to Disney, I'm not sure who would have the authority to force them to close. Maybe the Orange and Osceola County Health Department? The Federal Government would definitely NOT have that authority.

 

[Lilofan]

They just announced the first case in central Florida on the news this morning.

That can draw fear and concern and hopefully it does not get worse. Venice Italy where the coronavirus is making an impact on its valuable tourist industry, the hotel occupancy currently is 1-2%. Basically many locals are not working..

 

[DisneyCane]

I think the furthest anyone would take this would be banning large gatherings like sporting events and theme parks. I don’t see any chief executive in this country trying to force people into quarantine in large numbers. Even during natural disasters when the local authorities call for mandatory evacuations and ask for essential cars only on roads there are people who don’t comply. I hate to say it but this is likely going to be the same. People with light or no symptoms will venture out anyway instead of staying in quarantine.

Any bans on large gatherings would be done at the local level or possibly state level just like natural disasters. POTUS can not institute a nationwide ban on large gatherings.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

First of all, what I said was that the US Federal Government can not lock down cities the way that other Governments around the world have done.

§ 267. Quarantine stations, grounds, and anchorages (a) Control and management Except as provided in title II of the Act of June 15, 1917, as amended [50 U.S.C. 191 et seq.], the Surgeon General shall control, direct, and manage all United States quarantine stations, grounds, and anchorages, designate their boundaries, and designate the quarantine officers to be in charge thereof. With the approval of the President he shall from time to time select suitable sites for and establish such additional stations, grounds, and anchorages in the States and possessions of the United States as in his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction of communicable diseases into the States and possessions of the United States. (b) Hours of inspection The Surgeon General shall establish the hours

 

[DisneyCane]

§ 267. Quarantine stations, grounds, and anchorages (a) Control and management Except as provided in title II of the Act of June 15, 1917, as amended [50 U.S.C. 191 et seq.], the Surgeon General shall control, direct, and manage all United States quarantine stations, grounds, and anchorages, designate their boundaries, and designate the quarantine officers to be in charge thereof. With the approval of the President he shall from time to time select suitable sites for and establish such additional stations, grounds, and anchorages in the States and possessions of the United States as in his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction of communicable diseases into the States and possessions of the United States. (b) Hours of inspection The Surgeon General shall establish the hours

You are bolding the wrong part. The pertinent text is:

"in his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction of communicable diseases into the States and possessions of the United States"

This section of the US Code applies to people ENTERING THE COUNTRY, not citizens within the borders.

Read the CDC web page. I would think they know what the federal law says.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

You are bolding the wrong part. The pertinent text is:

"in his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction of communicable diseases into the States and possessions of the United States"

This section of the US Code applies to people ENTERING THE COUNTRY, not citizens within the borders.

IN THE UNITED STATES. We can't quarantine another country. But they can say, there's an outbreak in Miami and quarantine Miami so that it does not spread into the other states.

 

[DisneyCane]

IN THE UNITED STATES. We can't quarantine another country. But they can say, there's an outbreak in Miami and quarantine Miami so that it does not spread. You're making a really dumb argument.

Is the CDC wrong as well? The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN NOT QUARANTINE MIAMI.

The word used in the text is "into" not "in"

 

[Lilofan]

Do you know what goes great with the Coronavirus?
Lyme Disease

(Corona goes with Lime)

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Is the CDC wrong as well? The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN NOT QUARANTINE MIAMI.

The word used in the text is "into" not "in"

The word is "between"

Read the CDC web page. I would think they know what the federal law says.

I'd rather rely on Federal Law. But okay. From your CDC page:

Federal Law
The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

 

[DisneyCane]

The word is "between"



I'd rather rely on Federal Law. But okay. From your CDC page:

Federal Law
The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

As I have stated many posts ago, the Federal Government could conceivably prevent travel into and out of a State. They can not lock down a City within a State like China and Italy have done. The constitution does not allow for that power.

 

[GoofGoof]

Any bans on large gatherings would be done at the local level or possibly state level just like natural disasters. POTUS can not institute a nationwide ban on large gatherings.

You are thinking too literally or maybe just trying to argue semantics. If POTUS and/or the appropriate members Of the government call for a restriction on large gatherings nationwide state and local governments will fall in line. There are billions of reasons now for local governments to want federal assistance . Technically the federal government may not have official authority to do this but that’s just semantics. Money talks.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Please cite the relevant sections of the constitution and case law that gives this power to the President. You are 100% wrong.

I'm not an expert on the US constitution. I'm sure you are correct however.

Unfortunately there is no government in the world AFAIK that actually respects its constitution either in letter or in spirit. Either the document has gigantic loopholes written in to allow fundamental rights to be trampled (such as Canada's infamous "notwithstanding" clause) or else legislators and judges treat an innocuous part of the constitution AS IF it's a giant loophole (such as interstate commerce in the USA) and simply make up powers for themselves that the authors never dreamed of.

I believe that the US constitution was massively violated in times of war notably the civil war, WW1 and WW2 and if Corona seems to give them enough of an excuse then ... hello quarantines and internment. Sadly.

 

[The Mom]

How much toilet paper do you need for a 10 day quarantine? I would think not more than 1 or 2 rolls. We generally have extra rolls on hand. This stock piling of toilet paper is the height of irrational behavior. I guess all the toilet paper you have leftover come Halloween there will be a lot of toilet papered houses Ha Ha

It depends upon your family size, gender (women use more) etc. But I usually stock up when there is a sale, so no need to run out to get more.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

As I have stated many posts ago, the Federal Government could conceivably prevent travel into and out of a State. They can not lock down a City within a State like China and Italy have done. The constitution does not allow for that power.

The Federal Government derives it's power for quarantine and isolation from the Commerce Clause (as is stated on your CDC website). The purpose of which is to limit the spread of communicable disease from not only entering the country but also spreading between the states.

Furthermore the Commerce Clause gives sole power of establishing boundaries for said quarantine and isolation zones at the discretion of the Surgeon General with the consent of the President. Those boundaries could be a house, a city block, or an entire city.

Nobody wants it to get to that point. I don't think it will get to that point. But to argue that the Federal Government could not do it, is silly.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

How much toilet paper do you need for a 10 day quarantine?

If it comes to that it would likely be longer than 10 days.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think the key to this is nobody wants it to get to this point. POTUS and Congress need to be re-elected and that’s going to be a tough sell if people‘s rights are revoked (legal or not). I do think that public sentiment will support things like bans on large public gatherings but most likely won’t support more extreme actions like a full lock down of a city or state. That’s just my guess at this point.

 

[GoofGoof]

If it comes to that it would likely be longer than 10 days.

Thus far self quarantine has been 14 days as well as those quarantined at the military bases when entering the country.

 

[DisneyCane]

The Federal Government derives it's power for quarantine and isolation from the Commerce Clause (as is stated on your CDC website). The purpose of which is to limit the spread of communicable disease from not only entering the country but also spreading between the states.

Furthermore the Commerce Clause gives sole power of establishing boundaries for said quarantine and isolation zones at the discretion of the Surgeon General with the consent of the President. Those boundaries could be a house, a city block, or an entire city.

Nobody wants it to get to that point. I don't think it will get to that point. But to argue that the Federal Government could not do it, is silly.

Where can I read this commerce clause that you refer to that enumerates all of these powers? The constitution only says:

"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"

The constitution doesn't refer to the surgeon general, isolation zones or any such thing.

The federal law that you refer to can be read here:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...010-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG-sec264.pdf

Some pertinent quotes:

"The Surgeon General, with the approval of the Secretary, is authorized to make and enforce such regulations as in his judgment are necessary to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or possession."

"(1) Regulations prescribed under this section may provide for the apprehension and examination of any individual reasonably believed to be infected with a communicable disease in a qualifying stage and (A) to be moving or about to move from a State to another State; or (B) to be a probable source of infection to individuals who, while infected with such disease in a qualifying stage, will be moving from a State to another State"

None of this would allow a lockdown of a City by the Federal Government or creation of an isolation zone in that context unless everybody inside the city was infected. If there were 50,000 infections in Miami, it can not be argued that the 400,000 uninfected are probable sources of infection to individuals who will be moving from a State to another State. The 50,000 infected would qualify and they could be ordered to be quarantined but the quarantine isolation zone can not be the City of Miami.