Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Bullseye1967]

Yes they are low risk. That has already been established. But kids have died if this and if I had an unvaccinated child, I would not be taking any chances. The virus is still floating around. Hopefully this will not be true for much longer. Mom, just private me with your PO Box or address or something and I’ll mail you a few good bottles of wine for all the deleting you are going to have to do and for whatever part I had in it, although I didn’t start posting cruise line stuff in the incorrect thread.

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[Bullseye1967]

Yes they are low risk. That has already been established. But kids have died if this and if I had an unvaccinated child, I would not be taking any chances. The virus is still floating around. Hopefully this will not be true for much longer. Mom, just private me with your PO Box or address or something and I’ll mail you a few good bottles of wine for all the deleting you are going to have to do and for whatever part I had in it, although I didn’t start posting cruise line stuff in the incorrect thread.

You are both correct. The CDC is quoting numbers for the US and UNICEF is quoting numbers for the world. The only difference is the former is under 18 and the later is under 21.

 

[Tom P.]

Yes they are low risk. That has already been established. But kids have died if this and if I had an unvaccinated child, I would not be taking any chances. The virus is still floating around. Hopefully this will not be true for much longer. Mom, just private me with your PO Box or address or something and I’ll mail you a few good bottles of wine for all the deleting you are going to have to do and for whatever part I had in it, although I didn’t start posting cruise line stuff in the incorrect thread.

Everyone has to make their own judgement about risk levels and risk tolerance. My wife and I have several young children and we are more than comfortable with them going on with normal life. It doesn't concern us in the slightest. Yes, I am aware that some children have died from Covid and yes I am aware that the risk to our children is a non-zero value. But my judgement is that the risk is small enough that it's worth it for the tradeoff of being able to live life without mitigation measures. Your opinion may vary, which is fine. Making a different judgement based on the facts and data does not make one "uninformed and selfish."

 

[natatomic]

Everyone has to make their own judgement about risk levels and risk tolerance. My wife and I have several young children and we are more than comfortable with them going on with normal life. It doesn't concern us in the slightest. Yes, I am aware that some children have died from Covid and yes I am aware that the risk to our children is a non-zero value. But my judgement is that the risk is small enough that it's worth it for the tradeoff of being able to live life without mitigation measures. Your opinion may vary, which is fine. My point all along with you has been, though, that you don't need to be rude and condescending, which you have been in the extreme. Making a different judgement based on the facts and data does not make one "uninformed and selfish."

This.

Speaking as someone who lost a child 6 years ago, I am well aware of the potential mortality of children. I am also aware that my living kids are still more likely to die from drowning, suffocation, a car crash, cancer, the flu, cardiovascular disease, or even murder than they are from covid. Yes, one of my kids died, but I don’t ask the entire world to live in fear because of the remote possibility their kid could die the same way mine did. Sympathy, yes. Paranoia, no.

Most parents are just trying their best to keep their kids safe. If that means vaccinating them every week and layering 8 masks on their faces…great. That’s the choice they feel is best to keep their kids safe based on the data. If it means not worrying about vaccinating and not wearing masks anymore because they realize there are many other things we all do every day that are more likely to kill their kids and covid isn’t a huge threat in comparison…also great. That’s the choice they feel is best to keep their kids safe based on the data.

Neither choice implies that either parent is dismissing anyone else’s pain or heartache from losing a child. The non-vaccinating parent isn’t denying the pain of a parent who lost their kid to covid, nor is the vaccinating parent denying the pain of a parent who lost their kid to a vaccine reaction. At least, I hope not.

Can we all just live our lives and make the decisions we all feel is best for our particular situations without being called uninformed or selfish? At this point, everyone knows the risks for every covid-related choice. It’s still possible for people to come to different conclusions.

 

[The Mom]

This.

Speaking as someone who lost a child 6 years ago, I am well aware of the potential mortality of children. I am also aware that my living kids are still more likely to die from drowning, suffocation, a car crash, cancer, the flu, cardiovascular disease, or even murder than they are from covid. Yes, one of my kids died, but I don’t ask the entire world to live in fear because of the remote possibility their kid could die the same way mine did. Sympathy, yes. Paranoia, no.

Most parents are just trying their best to keep their kids safe. If that means vaccinating them every week and layering 8 masks on their faces…great. That’s the choice they feel is best to keep their kids safe based on the data. If it means not worrying about vaccinating and not wearing masks anymore because they realize there are many other things we all do every day that are more likely to kill their kids and covid isn’t a huge threat in comparison…also great. That’s the choice they feel is best to keep their kids safe based on the data.

Neither choice implies that either parent is dismissing anyone else’s pain or heartache from losing a child. The non-vaccinating parent isn’t denying the pain of a parent who lost their kid to covid, nor is the vaccinating parent denying the pain of a parent who lost their kid to a vaccine reaction. At least, I hope not.

Can we all just live our lives and make the decisions we all feel is best for our particular situations without being called uninformed or selfish? At this point, everyone knows the risks for every covid-related choice. It’s still possible for people to come to different conclusions.

Or being told that they are overreacting or "fraidy cats" because they may have experienced the loss of many friends and family without a chance to comfort them in their last moments, say goodbye, or give them a respectful public farewell? It takes a while to get over that - maybe years.

I've let a few of the non-argumentative but not WDW related posts stand because they are a reminder that there are real people with varying Covid experiences posting here who have real feelings.

 

[Tom P.]

Or being told that they are overreacting of "fraidy cats" because they may have experienced the loss of many friends and family without a chance to comfort them in their last moments, say goodbye, or give them a respectful public farewell? It takes a while to get over that - maybe years.

I've let a few of the non-argumentative but not WDW related posts stand because they are a reminder that there are real people with varying Covid experiences posting here who have real feelings.

I think one of the greatest tragedies of the pandemic is how we have kept dying people isolated from their families. It is inexcusable, inhumane, and downright evil. No one should be dying alone in a hospital, denied the right to see their family. Hospitals have even denied people the right to see their clergy at the time of death, which is unforgivable, IMHO. I don't care of the Black Plague itself is raging, when someone is on their deathbed, you let them be with their family.

 

[Nunu]

I think one of the greatest tragedies of the pandemic is how we have kept dying people isolated from their families. It is inexcusable, inhumane, and downright evil. No one should be dying alone in a hospital, denied the right to see their family. Hospitals have even denied people the right to see their clergy at the time of death, which is unforgivable, IMHO. I don't care of the Black Plague itself is raging, when someone is on their deathbed, you let them be with their family.

I can't even begin to imagine how heart wrenching that must be.

I remember hearing about it and thinking to myself: there's no power on earth that could've prevented me from being by a loved one's side at their time of death, even if that meant ending up in jail. That people had to go through this, is inconceivable to me.

 

[correcaminos]

I think one of the greatest tragedies of the pandemic is how we have kept dying people isolated from their families. It is inexcusable, inhumane, and downright evil. No one should be dying alone in a hospital, denied the right to see their family. Hospitals have even denied people the right to see their clergy at the time of death, which is unforgivable, IMHO. I don't care of the Black Plague itself is raging, when someone is on their deathbed, you let them be with their family.

We did keep, but have kept implies this is still practice. Fortunately it is not. There was a night in April of 2020 that I received one of those calls.... it was the worst thing in the world that night not knowing. My aunt pulled through and ultimately passed away on other issues end of 2020 and happened to be alone (she drifted in her sleep after we had been there earlier that day) but had they had better signs of her passing we could have been there. I am glad that what happened early in the pandemic did not continue as it was cruel. Not just to those who died, but to the families who were kept at bay. I lost 5 very close loved ones in a span of a couple months at the end of 2020/early 2021. Only my aunt was alone and not due to restrictions. Had she died in April of 2020 when the facility was raging with covid, she would have. That was a helpless feeling

 

[Lilofan]

oh my god.

Covid is such a plague, in sooooo many ways....

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, I couldn't care less as long as you are following the rules wherever you are at.
The End.

All I can say is on my next plane trip please follow the mask rules so the airline crew won't get up in some faces for some trying to test the policy, and or some making a scene and pilot turning around ( AA flight 38 Miami to London ).

 

[DisneyCane]

Here's the latest CDC Community Levels map with Orange county now in the "medium" level -

View attachment 625213

U.S. COVID-19 Community Levels by County Map | CDC

U.S. COVID-19 Community Levels by County Map

www.cdc.gov

It seems they only update this map once per week. I'm not sure why since the "county view" map gets updated frequently and this map uses the same data.

 

[GoofGoof]

It seems they only update this map once per week. I'm not sure why since the "county view" map gets updated frequently and this map uses the same data.

This is true. By the time the new metrics came out last week and I checked on Saturday my county dropped from yellow to green based on the rolling 7 day averages but they just flipped on the map yesterday. I assume there’s a good chance Orange County was in the same situation. The differences between green and yellow aren’t much anyway so it’s not too relevant for WDW going forward as long as the stats don’t increase but so far so good…still trending down

 

[Bob Harlem]

This is true. By the time the new metrics came out last week and I checked on Saturday my county dropped from yellow to green based on the rolling 7 day averages but they just flipped on the map yesterday. I assume there’s a good chance Orange County was in the same situation. The differences between green and yellow aren’t much anyway so it’s not too relevant for WDW going forward as long as the stats don’t increase but so far so good…still trending down

Orange is in the same situation, Osceola (where DAK is) is in green already. Orange on the 7 day numbers is already green based on the raw up to date numbers, but the map is showing yellow because of it. South Florida led the Omicron wave, and it's also leading the drop off, the green will flood upwards from there. By the end of next week it'll be below the lowpoint of pre-omicron. The drop off is THAT fast.

 

[Disney4Lyfe]

Let's all hope the data works out. If they have to go back for either/both of them and retest a new dose it's going to be very sad.

I'm not sure if they've been testing a bunch of doses or mostly just one now based on some earlier testing to determine the one for the longer test.

Dose determination is always tricky, especially for younger kids.

At the rate we're going, lots of 4 year olds are going to age into approval first.

Don't expect an approval for that age cohort. Even if Pfizer gets the data to work, the FDA is not going to approve it. Last time they expressly said, this should not be mandated, and lo and behold, it got mandated in certain areas of the country. They won't make the same mistake.

 

[GoofGoof]

Orange is in the same situation, Osceola (where DAK is) is in green already. Orange on the 7 day numbers is already green based on the raw up to date numbers, but the map is showing yellow because of it. South Florida led the Omicron wave, and it's also leading the drop off, the green will flood upwards from there. By the end of next week it'll be below the lowpoint of pre-omicron. The drop off is THAT fast.

Not that it technically matters as a requirement since WDW elected to drop masks before the rules took effect, but it probably will matter to some guests. More of a psychological win than one that impacts rules. Disney certainly doesn’t seem to be having any trouble attracting customers, but having the metric set as low has to be a boost as people start ramping up booking Summer vacations. Now they just need to find enough workers to meet the increased demand. I wonder if International workers will make a bigger impact by this Summer.

 

[DisneyCane]

Not that it technically matters as a requirement since WDW elected to drop masks before the rules took effect, but it probably will matter to some guests. More of a psychological win than one that impacts rules. Disney certainly doesn’t seem to be having any trouble attracting customers, but having the metric set as low has to be a boost as people start ramping up booking Summer vacations. Now they just need to find enough workers to meet the increased demand. I wonder if International workers will make a bigger impact by this Summer.

And build another E-ticket or two (with good throughput) for each park on top of what is currently under construction without removing anything.

 

[correcaminos]

I can't even begin to imagine how heart wrenching that must be.

I remember hearing about it and thinking to myself: there's no power on earth that could've prevented me from being by a loved one's side at their time of death, even if that meant ending up in jail. That people had to go through this, is inconceivable to me.

I saw this earlier and honestly there was no way in. Your comments kind of tugged for those of us who lived it. We would have wanted to be there but when doors are literally locked and it is 10pm at night there is nothing to do.

Don't expect an approval for that age cohort. Even if Pfizer gets the data to work, the FDA is not going to approve it. Last time they expressly said, this should not be mandated, and lo and behold, it got mandated in certain areas of the country. They won't make the same mistake.

I'm not following any of this and am curious what you mean. There are no mandates universally upheld at this time. Mandates have nothing to do with FDA approving. In fact you need approval before you can attempt to madate.

 

[mmascari]

Don't expect an approval for that age cohort. Even if Pfizer gets the data to work, the FDA is not going to approve it. Last time they expressly said, this should not be mandated, and lo and behold, it got mandated in certain areas of the country. They won't make the same mistake.

We've really been talking about EUA for under 5 not full approval.

The three things, EUA, CDC recommendations, and full approval are all very independent.

Nothing stops any area from mandating at any of those stages, but it's really not likely until full approval has occurred. Actually getting full approval is all about the safety and efficacy data. That some group may mandate after full approval will have no impact at all on if full approval happens or not once it's applied for.

The idea to mandate would have more to do with the recommendations than the approval.

EUA and full approval are science and medical decisions. They're concerned with safety and efficacy.
Recommendations and mandates are policy decisions. They're concerned with public health outcomes.

While the policy decisions depend on the science ones, the science ones don't care about the policy. Keeping policy out of the FDA is best.

 

[GoofGoof]

If a covid vaccine isn’t mandated for anyone who is currently approved why would the FDA decide to not approve the vaccine for kids under 5 for fear it would be mandated? Would they really think the vaccine will be approved and then immediately mandated only for kids under 5? Seems highly unlikely.

 

[GoofGoof]

And build another E-ticket or two (with good throughput) for each park on top of what is currently under construction without removing anything.

It’s a joy to be back to complaining about the lack of ride capacity .…and yes totally agree

 

[LuvtheGoof]

And build another E-ticket or two (with good throughput) for each park on top of what is currently under construction without removing anything.

Actually, they would be much better off building multiple B and C rides for the price of one E to spread the crowds out.