Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

Full mask mandates should have been a thing at the start of this along with the people in charge (WHO, CDC, local health departments, etc) shutting down all of the misinformation. If people had simply adhered to the science and followed the suggestions from the start then mask wearing would just be a bad memory at this point.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. There aren't even any very pro-mitigation experts (like Fauci) that suggest this would be the case. No amount of mask wearing or any other practical mitigation was ever going to lead to SARS-CoV-2 disappearing.

MAYBE if you literally locked down the entire world for 8-10 weeks and didn't let anybody on earth come into contact with anybody outside of their household for any reason (including getting medical attention or buying food) it would have ceased to exist. Unfortunately, many more people would have starved to death or died from treatable conditions than have died due to COVID.

 

[Andrew C]

THIS IS NOT TRUE. There aren't even any very pro-mitigation experts (like Fauci) that suggest this would be the case. No amount of mask wearing or any other practical mitigation was ever going to lead to SARS-CoV-2 disappearing.

MAYBE if you literally locked down the entire world for 8-10 weeks and didn't let anybody on earth come into contact with anybody outside of their household for any reason (including getting medical attention or buying food) it would have ceased to exist. Unfortunately, many more people would have starved to death or died from treatable conditions than have died due to COVID.

The world is one big open society....one of the main reasons why variants so quickly spread from one country to the next...

 

[Disstevefan1]

Full mask mandates should have been a thing at the start of this along with the people in charge (WHO, CDC, local health departments, etc) shutting down all of the misinformation. If people had simply adhered to the science and followed the suggestions from the start then mask wearing would just be a bad memory at this point. But I do understand your desire to end mandates. Really. Honestly, at this point the mandates are no more effective than trying to get a toddler to eat brussel sprouts.

We know hindsight is 20/20, but at the very beginning, Fauci said masks didn't work, he lied only to prevent all of the N95 masks to be taken leaving none for the medical professionals who were in daily contact with many infected folks.

What he should have said, only medical professionals need to use N95 masks since they are in daily contact with many infected folks.
Everyone else who are in casual contact with random people, some infected, some not, should use cloth masks.

The Fauci lie, even if it was "well intended" got us into the mask mess in my opinion.

 

[Disstevefan1]

THIS IS NOT TRUE. There aren't even any very pro-mitigation experts (like Fauci) that suggest this would be the case. No amount of mask wearing or any other practical mitigation was ever going to lead to SARS-CoV-2 disappearing.

MAYBE if you literally locked down the entire world for 8-10 weeks and didn't let anybody on earth come into contact with anybody outside of their household for any reason (including getting medical attention or buying food) it would have ceased to exist. Unfortunately, many more people would have starved to death or died from treatable conditions than have died due to COVID.

This is an interesting discussion. We now see lockdowns do not work BECAUSE humans could never achieve the literal lock down you speak of. It's not possible because of human nature.

Lockdowns work perfectly on paper, but never work in real life.

 

[Lilofan]

We know hindsight is 20/20, but at the very beginning, Fauci said masks didn't work, he lied only to prevent all of the N95 masks to be taken leaving none for the medical professionals who were in daily contact with many infected folks.

What he should have said, only medical professionals need to use N95 masks since they are in daily contact with many infected folks.
Everyone else who are in casual contact with random people, some infected, some not, should use cloth masks.

The Fauci lie, even if it was "well intended" got us into the mask mess in my opinion.

I'm all for masking , I mask but when I was in hospital most recently for emergency procedure , prior to procedure had covid test in ER , and all I saw including hospital staff , not one wore a N95 mask , but instead wore the standard hospital medical mask. The surgeon did make a joke minutes before the operation happened. There was a TV on the wall for him to assist with my surgery. I commented are we going to watch movies? The surgeon replied it is a 4K TV and I am paying for it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

We know hindsight is 20/20, but at the very beginning, Fauci said masks didn't work, he lied only to prevent all of the N95 masks to be taken leaving none for the medical professionals who were in daily contact with many infected folks.

What he should have said, only medical professionals need to use N95 masks since they are in daily contact with many infected folks.
Everyone else who are in casual contact with random people, some infected, some not, should use cloth masks.

The Fauci lie, even if it was "well intended" got us into the mask mess in my opinion.

He also said at that same time that people who were sick (symptomatic) should wear masks. The big change was the realization that there is significant pre- and asymptomatic spread.

 

[Andrew C]

Lockdowns work perfectly on paper, but never work in real life.

I am not even sure they ever worked perfectly on paper given what the WHO (and other institutions such as Johns Hopkins) said about lockdowns in years past, prior to this pandemic. Although much of this position was based on real world events rather than just lab studies or something...

 

[G00fyDad]

I'm all for masking , I mask but when I was in hospital most recently for emergency procedure , prior to procedure had covid test in ER , and all I saw including hospital staff , not one wore a N95 mask , but instead wore the standard hospital medical mask. The surgeon did make a joke minutes before the operation happened. There was a TV on the wall for him to assist with my surgery. I commented are we going to watch movies? The surgeon replied it is a 4K TV and I am paying for it.

This is what my wife looks like every day for 12 hours. (photo is not my wife. LOL)

 

[Lilofan]

This is what my wife looks like every day for 12 hours. (photo is not my wife. LOL)
View attachment 619637

Doctors and nurses go through stress in their roles I could not imagine going through. Some are family. I did run into some nurses pre covid on a plane trip to Orlando. They were on a short getaway to the happiest place on earth on their 4 days off that week.

 

[mmascari]

The Fauci lie, even if it was "well intended" got us into the mask mess in my opinion.

I agree that this was a disaster. However, it's been 2 years (almost) since then. Are people unable to process new information during that time frame? Are there still people trying to use FastPass+ and throwing a fit when it doesn't work?

The world is one big open society....one of the main reasons why variants so quickly spread from one country to the next...

It doesn't have to be. It's not for many areas. It doesn't need some perfect or draconian solution either. Just some additional friction to reduce/slow spread. The testing requirements do some of this. Vaccination requirements do some of this.

Have to start somewhere. Trying to only solve everything everywhere simultaneously is a plan destined to fail.

THIS IS NOT TRUE. There aren't even any very pro-mitigation experts (like Fauci) that suggest this would be the case. No amount of mask wearing or any other practical mitigation was ever going to lead to SARS-CoV-2 disappearing.

MAYBE if you literally locked down the entire world for 8-10 weeks and didn't let anybody on earth come into contact with anybody outside of their household for any reason (including getting medical attention or buying food) it would have ceased to exist. Unfortunately, many more people would have starved to death or died from treatable conditions than have died due to COVID.

There really is no increase vs reduction for you is there? It's either "let it rip" or "must be perfect".

It's absolutely true that if we reduce spread enough, but not eliminate, that masks will disappear. It's even directly in the CDC guidance.


Nobody in the US is walking around (in general) wearing masks for measles, polio, or TB. Some healthcare workers are when treating specific patients. None are eliminated everywhere in the world.

 

[Andrew C]

It doesn't have to be. It's not for many areas. It doesn't need some perfect or draconian solution either. Just some additional friction to reduce/slow spread. The testing requirements do some of this. Vaccination requirements do some of this.

Have to start somewhere. Trying to only solve everything everywhere simultaneously is a plan destined to fail.

We are two years in. That "have to start somewhere" stuff is done. Keep pushing vaccines...let's move forward.

 

[mmascari]

We are two years in. That "have to start somewhere" stuff is done. Keep pushing vaccines...let's move forward.

Why do people keep bringing up the rest of the world then? Almost always in the support of "why bother doing X, the rest of the world is so far behind".

We definitely need to get more people vaccinated, and including the booster dose after 5 months.

Yet, I will not be surprised to hear people say "What's the point of getting the vaccinated boosted percentage high enough, the rest of the world will never get that high". Likely followed by it only matters for the individual if they're vaccinated and not the vaccination rate of the population. Both of which hurt the ability to reduce spread.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Full mask mandates should have been a thing at the start of this along with the people in charge (WHO, CDC, local health departments, etc) shutting down all of the misinformation.

How do you “shut down all of the misinformation” and still allow free speech?

 

[Andrew C]

How do you “shut down all of the misinformation” and still allow free speech?

Tricky, isn't it?

 

[Andrew C]

Why do people keep bringing up the rest of the world then?

Because variants have spread from one country to the next easily? And international travel has become almost as easy as domestic travel for many? Another reason why vaccines are helpful.

 

[G00fyDad]

How do you “shut down all of the misinformation” and still allow free speech?

Speaking out against it is one way but free speech does not mean you should get to run around and lie with impunity. When you lie and it puts people's lives at risk you can face charges for that. The 1st Amendment does not cover stupidity.

 

[danlb_2000]

We know hindsight is 20/20, but at the very beginning, Fauci said masks didn't work, he lied only to prevent all of the N95 masks to be taken leaving none for the medical professionals who were in daily contact with many infected folks.

What he should have said, only medical professionals need to use N95 masks since they are in daily contact with many infected folks.
Everyone else who are in casual contact with random people, some infected, some not, should use cloth masks.

The Fauci lie, even if it was "well intended" got us into the mask mess in my opinion.

Not true. This has been repeated so many times by the anti-Fauci crowd that a lot of people believe it. What he said was far more nuanced, but people aren't good at nuance.

 

[Kevin_W]

I agree that this was a disaster. However, it's been 2 years (almost) since then. Are people unable to process new information during that time frame? Are there still people trying to use FastPass+ and throwing a fit when it doesn't work?

Unable to process new information? No. Unwilling? Yes.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Speaking out against it is one way but free speech does not mean you should get to run around and lie with impunity. When you lie and it puts people's lives at risk you can face charges for that. The 1st Amendment does not cover stupidity.

So Fauci should face charges for lying about masks?

 

[Andrew C]

Not true. This has been repeated so many times by the anti-Fauci crowd that a lot of people believe it. What he said was far more nuanced, but people aren't good at nuance.

That is worse then, no? He thought masks worked but lied to the American people in order to protect the masks supply for heath care workers? So are people too stupid for nuance, or are they just too smart for the excuses about being misled? People don't like being lied to. It is pretty simple. It leads to distrust that is hard to earn back.

The U.S. Government’s Noble Lies About COVID-19

When Fauci said in March 2020 that Americans didn’t need to wear masks, it was a noble lie—and a destructive one.

slate.com