Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[danlb_2000]

That is worse then, no? He thought masks worked but lied to the American people in order to protect the masks supply for heath care workers? So are people too stupid for nuance, or are they just too smart for the excuses about being misled? People don't like being lied to. It is pretty simple. It leads to distrust that is hard to earn back.

The U.S. Government’s Noble Lies About COVID-19

When Fauci said in March 2020 that Americans didn’t need to wear masks, it was a noble lie—and a destructive one.

slate.com

He never said they didn't work. In February 2020 he said there was no reason for the general public to wear them because we thought that the virus wasn't very prevalent in the US, and we didn't know how much asymptomatic spread was happening. At that point they were thinking about masks as a way to protect the wearer and the best masks for that were in short supply. Once we realized that there were a lot of asymptomatic carriers it made sense that everyone where what they could get since it would help reduce spread.

 

[Lilofan]

How do you “shut down all of the misinformation” and still allow free speech?

Facebook and Twitter all advocates of free speech but to a point. Recently banning certain individuals from posting their accounts for reasons well known.

 

[Andrew C]

He never said they didn't work. In February 2020 he said there was no reason for the general public to wear them because we thought that the virus wasn't very prevalent in the US, and we didn't know how much asymptomatic spread was happening. At that point they were thinking about masks as a way to protect the wearer and the best masks for that were in short supply. Once we realized that there were a lot of asymptomatic carriers it made sense that everyone where what they could get since it would help reduce spread.

You are leaving out a lot of detail there in order to provide cover (I really don't get why...again people don't like being misled or treated as though they are stupid)....and what we knew did not change between March and April. And I didn't say he said they never worked. I wrote this...

That is worse then, no? He thought masks worked but lied to the American people in order to protect the masks supply for heath care workers? So are people too stupid for nuance, or are they just too smart for the excuses about being misled? People don't like being lied to. It is pretty simple. It leads to distrust that is hard to earn back.

The U.S. Government’s Noble Lies About COVID-19

When Fauci said in March 2020 that Americans didn’t need to wear masks, it was a noble lie—and a destructive one.

slate.com

They up on more than one occasion by being misleading....and it led to distrust.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

We know hindsight is 20/20, but at the very beginning, Fauci said masks didn't work, he lied only to prevent all of the N95 masks to be taken leaving none for the medical professionals who were in daily contact with many infected folks.

What he should have said, only medical professionals need to use N95 masks since they are in daily contact with many infected folks.
Everyone else who are in casual contact with random people, some infected, some not, should use cloth masks.

The Fauci lie, even if it was "well intended" got us into the mask mess in my opinion.

I still don’t think it was a lie, it appears that was how he genuinely felt at the time but once he changed his mind (or he was told to say otherwise) they came up with the saving masks for health care employees story to explain his 180.

An email from Feb 2020 came out that he advised a staff member not to wear one "The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you."

Why would he advise a White House staffer, before the public even knew Covid existed, not to wear one if he didn’t truly believe it? It’s not like telling that one person in a private email was going to prevent hospitals from getting them.

Had the story changed from we now recommend it because it helps prevent transmission to others, although still doesn’t provide much protection to yourself, I could buy it, but not the saving them for healthcare workers.

When it comes to masks and recommendations there’s a lot of revised history from all sides. It’s unfortunate we never got a unified message on whether or not they work and it’s unfortunate we’ll likely never know if they do because it’s become such a political football.

 

[G00fyDad]

So Fauci should face charges for lying about masks?

If he lied and people died as a result of that lie then yes. See? Your attempt to get me to "go full leftist and backup my guy" despite something he may have done wrong kind of backfired huh? I don't care who breaks the law. If they do then they should be held accountable. Now, that said Fauci never lied about masks. Try again. Actually, scratch that. I do not care to see some twisted accounting from someone who has had an anti-mask agenda from day 1. I'll add you to my list and move on. I have no time for silly crap.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Now, that said Fauci never lied about masks.

Incorrect

 

[G00fyDad]

Ahhhh..... serenity.


I hope they remove the indoor mask mandates soon. It would be nice to see this happen because it will mean the cases are dropping enough to warrant less mask usage.

 

[hopemax]

That is worse then, no? He thought masks worked but lied to the American people in order to protect the masks supply for heath care workers? So are people too stupid for nuance, or are they just too smart for the excuses about being misled? People don't like being lied to. It is pretty simple. It leads to distrust that is hard to earn back.

The U.S. Government’s Noble Lies About COVID-19

When Fauci said in March 2020 that Americans didn’t need to wear masks, it was a noble lie—and a destructive one.

slate.com

I've not seen much evidence this is really true. It's not like the purveyors of disinformation lost their sway when they overestimated how many people had Covid in the first wave. Severely underestimated the mortality numbers and the length of the pandemic. Promoting treatments after additional study revealed they were ineffective. Made erroneous claims about vaccine safety. All the way up to the stuff from a week or so ago about 100+ soccer players dropping dead during games. It seems like there are plenty of people willing to be lied to as long as the lies tickle the right spot. And these people have a hard time moving away from those lies despite evidence. The grifters profit, and we're all a lot worse off because of it. It would have been much easier, if people did hate being lied to. Lying to people has proven to be extremely profitable over the last few years.

 

[hopemax]

 

[Andrew C]

I've not seen much evidence this is really true. It's not like the purveyors of disinformation lost their sway when they overestimated how many people had Covid in the first wave. Severely underestimated the mortality numbers and the length of the pandemic. Promoting treatments after additional study revealed they were ineffective. Made erroneous claims about vaccine safety. All the way up to the stuff from a week or so ago about 100+ soccer players dropping dead during games. It seems like there are plenty of people willing to be lied to as long as the lies tickle the right spot. And these people have a hard time moving away from those lies despite evidence. The grifters profit, and we're all a lot worse off because of it. It would have been much easier, if people did hate being lied to. Lying to people has proven to be extremely profitable over the last few years.

You have a very pessimistic view of the general public. I’m more optimistic.

 

[Andrew C]

Incorrect

At this point and on this case, I think we can let the evidence speak for itself and let people here believe what they want. No one around here is looking to be convinced one way or another.

 

[danlb_2000]

Incorrect

Please post the exact quote from Fauci that was a lie?

 

[hopemax]

You have a very pessimist view of the general public. I’m more optimistic.

Our vaccination rate is what it is. It would be a lot easier to ignore "outliers" if they were actually outliers. And that goes for more than just Covid. Dismissing actual outcomes because people hope people are better than that, isn't getting us anywhere.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

At this point and on this case, I think we can let the evidence speak for itself and let people here believe what they want. No one around here is looking to be convinced one way or another.

Agreed. Honestly I thought just about everyone was in agreement that he lied. Just some people thought the lie was justifiable to save masks for healthcare workers.

I should have known everyone is split 50/50 on this issue as well!

 

[lazyboy97o]

They “survived.”

All the damage wrought now seems like it will pale in comparison to what is to come.

 

[mmascari]

You have a very pessimistic view of the general public. I’m more optimistic.

A pessimistic view of the public keeps you from being disappointed all the time.

For instance, if I just assume someone is going to show up 2 minutes before the parade starts, step in front, and put a kid on their shoulders it will not be nearly as disappointing when it happens. If it doesn't happen, it'll be time for cheering.

If I assume the spot picked out an hour ahead will continue to work that way, without them showing up, the disappointment will be complete when they do.

(Who am I kidding, I never pick a parade spot.)

 

[Andrew C]

Please post the exact quote from Fauci that was a lie?

In March he said...."there's no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often there are unintended consequences. People keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face. "

In June, he said...
"Q: So, why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning?

"Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected.""

The statement is March and the statement in June cannot both be true...just doesn't align. If June is 100% true then why did he say what he did in March? If March is 100% true then why did he say what he said in June? Messaging problem...misleading...or the 'noble lie' as Slate called it.

 

[Lilofan]

A pessimistic view of the public keeps you from being disappointed all the time.

For instance, if I just assume someone is going to show up 2 minutes before the parade starts, step in front, and put a kid on their shoulders it will not be nearly as disappointing when it happens. If it doesn't happen, it'll be time for cheering.

If I assume the spot picked out an hour ahead will continue to work that way, without them showing up, the disappointment will be complete when they do.

(Who am I kidding, I never pick a parade spot.)

Got to be dedicated pre covid to pick a spot at 2pm and sit there w / family until midnight NYE fireworks / Epcot in World Showcase area.

 

[Andrew C]

Our vaccination rate is what it is. It would be a lot easier to ignore "outliers" if they were actually outliers. And that goes for more than just Covid. Dismissing actual outcomes because people hope people are better than that, isn't getting us anywhere.

The world's vaccination rate is what it is. Unless places start mandating vaccines, that probably won't change too much.

 

[Andrew C]

A pessimistic view of the public keeps you from being disappointed all the time.

That is a very sad way to live one's life IMO.