Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

There's one obvious flaw with your question and that is that you're solely limiting it to airlines as if airline employees exist in their own special universe separate from everyone else. What is the difference between an airline mandating vaccinations vs. a supermarket or restaurant mandating vaccinations? All of those industries deal with the public and we already know that there are cases of vaccinated people being hospitalized, so that right there shoots your argument down. Airline employees aren't special in that way - and your question completely ignores the fact that many airline employees are in customer-facing roles.

Because the CEO of United Airlines is implying that his policy is saving the lives of vaccinated employees. To test this, United Airlines needs to be compared to other Airlines because they will have similar demographics for vaccinated employees.

My hypothesis is that having unvaccinated employees does not put the vaccinated employees at any higher risk of death or hospitalization. My hypothesis can be turned into a theory if there are statistics which show that the vaccinated employees of airlines which have a much higher percentage of unvaccinated employees have substantially similar outcomes with respect to death and hospitalization.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The goal was to vaccinate everyone who wasn't medically unable to get vaccinated.

Certain percentages thrown around fell under two situations:

1. For health care officials, they definitely wanted enough people to be vaccinated to halt community spread. But with a novel virus, it was unknown what that percentage was and a bunch of numbers (educated guesses) were thrown out: 60%, 70%, 80%. But, of course, that was for the original variant. A much more contagious variant like Omicron would have a much higher goal to stop community spread. This also presumed governments were capable of effective contact tracing once we hit the goal so as not to reignite the spread.

2. For the government, it was a logistics problem to try to hit the goal that health care officials were saying should be the target to stop community spread. How fast can the shots be produced and distributed? Biden gave several interim goals as production was ramping up. Then it was (I think) 75% (of those over 18) by the beginning of July. As far as being able to distribute enough vaccine to make that happen, it was a success. But, then we hit the roadblock of the vaccine hesitant, and it was about two months later we hit that goal.

But, again, the real goal was to vaccinate everyone who could be vaccinated. The lower percentages were interim steps on the way to that goal.

I appreciate the thoughtful response and I do understand “it’s complicated” but “as many as possible” isn’t a goal.

Disney Parks don’t make “as much money as possible” they have target profits each quarter that they either meet or not.

 

[mmascari]

I appreciate the thoughtful response and I do understand “it’s complicated” but “as many as possible” isn’t a goal.

Disney Parks don’t make “as much money as possible” they have target profits each quarter that they either meet or not.

95%-98%

Somewhere in there. Does that work?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I will post on an airline forum and ask and see if anybody knows. I'd be willing to bet that at the airlines that don't have a mandate we will find that zero or very close to zero vaccinated employees have either died of or been hospitalized for COVID since United implemented their mandate.

See, mandates work.

 

[mmascari]

Because the CEO of United Airlines is implying that his policy is saving the lives of vaccinated employees. To test this, United Airlines needs to be compared to other Airlines because they will have similar demographics for vaccinated employees.

I don't think he limited it to just "vaccinated employees".

It does say "zero of our vaccinated employees", but also refers to "vaccine policy" and "hospitalization rate among our employees".

My reading is that "vaccinated employees" and "employees" in this context is equivalent, because they're all vaccinated. If there's an exception policy, it could be a CYA to cover if any of the few unvaccinated exceptions had poor outcomes.

If you want to compare it to other airlines without a policy, I think you need to compare it to all employees not just vaccinated.

Not that it really matters. Nobody disagrees that being vaccinated is an advantage. And, beyond it being feel good that he doesn't want employees to die, not wanting employees out for longer periods because they're ill at all is the more important business impact.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Well.. what number is enough?

They do in a way. The training they go through requires them to be healthier and in better shape physically and mentally than your average employee at a supermarket.

Not all airline employees are pilots or flight attendants. You're telling me that the person scanning my ticket at the gate is somehow more likely to be physically fit than a cashier or someone stocking shelves at a grocery store? Also, mental toughness/fitness/whatever you want to call it has nothing to do with catching a contagious virus like COVID-19. And what about bank tellers? They stand all day and face the very real risk of being robbed on any given day. Are they somehow less healthy and mentally fit than a flight attendant or ticket checker?

 

[Andrew C]

You're telling me that the person scanning my ticket at the gate is somehow more likely to be physically fit than a cashier or someone stocking shelves at a grocery store?

Yes. They are all required to participate in company picnic activities such as the potato sack race and three legged race. Softball is optional however.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I appreciate the thoughtful response and I do understand “it’s complicated” but “as many as possible” isn’t a goal.

Disney Parks don’t make “as much money as possible” they have target profits each quarter that they either meet or not.

To say that Disney doesn’t “ make as much money as possible “ is a bit misleading. Of course they have target points that they strive for each quarter. The shareholders demand that. But if they hit that point, which they do a lot, they don’t pull back and say well we hit it, let’s give everyone dolewhips for a buck. Of course they continue to make as much as they can past that point. It’s a thin line between hitting goals and trying to blow past them if they can.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Because the CEO of United Airlines is implying that his policy is saving the lives of vaccinated employees. To test this, United Airlines needs to be compared to other Airlines because they will have similar demographics for vaccinated employees.

My hypothesis is that having unvaccinated employees does not put the vaccinated employees at any higher risk of death or hospitalization. My hypothesis can be turned into a theory if there are statistics which show that the vaccinated employees of airlines which have a much higher percentage of unvaccinated employees have substantially similar outcomes with respect to death and hospitalization.

I'll say it again: there is nothing inherently different about an airline employee than any other industry. Some airline employees work with the public and some work in offices where they never see a customer face to face. The virus doesn't care what industry you work in or who your employer is within that industry. If you were going to compare employees based on job/industry, you'd have to at least cover ALL service industry jobs where employees are in customer-facing roles. There's no difference between a supermarket cashier and the person scanning my ticket at the gate when I board my flight, just like there's no difference between a call center employee at an airline and a call center employee for any other company. If they're answering phones in an office with other employees then the name of the company on the office door is irrelevant. You're trying to argue against their policy by demanding a narrow piece of information because you know it isn't something anyone would actually have available and, therefore, you can't be proven wrong no matter how ridiculous your argument is.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yes. They are all required to participate in company picnic activities such as the potato sack race and three legged race. Softball is optional however.

I guess it is easier to stand for 8 hours when you have 3 legs. Also, whenever I buy a sack of potatoes for a race they just sit there like a lump. I tried to return the last one I bought but the customer service employee at the supermarket just told me, "I'm not physically or mentally strong enough to take that back." So now what do I do???

 

[MisterPenguin]

Because the CEO of United Airlines is implying that his policy is saving the lives of vaccinated employees. To test this, United Airlines needs to be compared to other Airlines because they will have similar demographics for vaccinated employees.

Well, the CEO is comparing it to a comparable company: United Airlines, as it existed before the mandate.

 

[Nubs70]

Not all airline employees are pilots or flight attendants. You're telling me that the person scanning my ticket at the gate is somehow more likely to be physically fit than a cashier or someone stocking shelves at a grocery store? Also, mental toughness/fitness/whatever you want to call it has nothing to do with catching a contagious virus like COVID-19. And what about bank tellers? They stand all day and face the very real risk of being robbed on any given day. Are they somehow less healthy and mentally fit than a flight attendant or ticket checker?

Health requirements for pilots does influence the distribution of the general health of the sample set.

 

[Nubs70]

See, mandates work.

Has the CEO"s claims been peer reviewed? If not, his observation is simply anecdotal and therefore not true.

If the CEO was serious, he should have conducted a Randomized Control Trial. But then again, the CEO is neither an epidemiologist nor a virologist therefore is not even qualified to even discuss the issue.

 

[Touchdown]

What was the goal for vaccinations in the USA by the way? Is it 80%?

100% of all eligible Americans who don’t have a medical exemption.

You asked for a goal.

 

[monothingie]

I guess it is easier to stand for 8 hours when you have 3 legs

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Health requirements for pilots does influence the distribution of the general health of the sample set.

Not by some great amount. Pilots make up a small percentage of airline employees. Even on a flight, they're in the minority as there are more flight attendants than pilots. Then add in the people checking tickets at the gate, the mechanics inspecting the planes, the people checking you in for your flight and checking your bags, the customer service reps answering phones or handling online chats with customers, the accountants, marketing, etc. It's kind of like saying gym teachers skew the data for school districts.

 

[The Mom]

Then show me the stats on how many vaccinated employees of other airlines that don't have mandates who have died of or have been hospitalized for COVID in the same time frame. If it is also zero (or statistically close) then the unvaccinated aren't putting the vaccinated at risk.

If you want to charge more for health insurance for the unvaccinated (which I believe Delta does) then that is perfectly fine.

I know of one (American Airlines). Triple vaxxed, buried last Saturday.

 

[DisneyCane]

Well, the CEO is comparing it to a comparable company: United Airlines, as it existed before the mandate.

Not really. If he was, he'd say how many vaccinated employees were hospitalized or died before the mandate was put in place. If vaccinated employees were being hospitalized and dying before the mandate and aren't now then you could make the case that the unvaccinated employees were adding risk to the vaccinated employees.

What he's doing is stating the average employee COVID deaths per week before the mandate (which I'm pretty sure includes the time before vaccines existed) and then saying that no vaccinated employees have been hospitalized or died since the mandate but doesn't say how many were in those categories before the mandate. It is quite possible that no vaccinated United Airlines employee has been hospitalized or died from COVID ever. If that's the case then all the statement does is prove, once again, that vaccines provide an extremely high level of risk reduction against a serious illness.

I know of one (American Airlines). Triple vaxxed, buried last Saturday.

Sad to hear.

 

[Ayla]

But, it appears to be slowing. We may be peaking.

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It will be another couple weeks or more before we start to see a decline. The 7 day average is continuing to increase and so is the daily case count. After that will be the wave of hospitalizations of the unvaccinated, which will more than likely shut down our health systems. They are already overwhelmed and more National Guard have been called in to help out in a system that is already beyond its breaking point.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

100% of all eligible Americans who don’t have a medical exemption.

You asked for a goal.

Is that your personal goal? I don’t feel like that’s realistic.