Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

BTW, the science on cough suppressants is that they most likely don't do anything since *among the totality of all studies* (and not just one cherry-picked study) they *may* only have a mild effectiveness. And definitely should not be given to children.

The same with cough expectorants (you can cough *better*!!).

When only *some* studies suggest a *mild effect* that *may* happen, and other studies don't... it's clear these are not the magic remedies some people think they are.

But... one can enjoy feeling 10-20% better from the placebo effect...

Cold medicine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nyquil (or the Walmart equivalent) extra strength dries me out somewhat when I have a cold and makes me tired but I've never found any other cold medicine to do anything for my symptoms.

 

[Touchdown]

Even as contagious as it is and how rapidly it is spreading, nowhere near "everybody" will have Omicron simultaneously. Currently, the highest spread is in NYC where 2.3% of the population has become a case in the past 7 days. Even if each person needs to be out of work for a week on average, that's still only 2.3% of the work force missing simultaneously. Obviously, there will be wild variations between workplaces and some locations will be unable to operate temporarily but "the numbers" aren't as high as they appear when you view them in percentage terms.

Another way to look at it is if NYC stayed at that level it would take 43 weeks for the entire population to be infected. We know that the wave will not last that long, will hit a peak sometime in the next few weeks and then decline at roughly the same rate as it increased.



It's the price to be paid for the other 333 million people to not lose 2 years of their lives. Also, Canada is not at zero deaths either. It's about 1/3 adjusted for population and there are other variables besides mitigation that factor into the difference, population density being a huge factor.



Spread will be different at different types of crowds. Your calculation is probably correct for something like a wedding where the infected person is likely to interact with a large percentage of the other people in the crowd. At a basketball game it's not going to be the same because the infected people (lets say 40) in the arena are only going to be likely to be able to infect the 15 or so people sitting near them and it isn't likely for all to be infected. If the infected people are near other infected people (by pure luck) it will lower it further.


Given all of the information, I concur that if you do have COVID that you most likely caught it while in FL. I apologize for my initial reaction.

The numbers will be the same, they will just be clustered at a basketball game, more importantly we were discussing New Years, an event where people mingle and hug and kiss random strangers.

 

[Jrb1979]

Many states did things a lot like Ontario. The vast majority of the US had some kind of stay at home order at the beginning so there was no give up right out of the gate.

What most Americans decided after some time was that we wanted to go on living and not just existing. From the descriptions (no personal experience) the good people of Ontario have lived significantly altered lives for 1 3/4 years to end up in the same spot as places who have just gone on relatively normally.

The BIG DIFFERENCE is by just existing as to you call it, IMO if got us to the high vaccination rate that we have. Due to that we will see much lower hospitalizations overall.

 

[Kman]

[QUOTE="DisneyCane, post: 10110780, member:


It's the price to be paid for the other 333 million people to not lose 2 years of their lives. Also, Canada is not at zero deaths either. It's about 1/3 adjusted for population and there are other variables besides mitigation that factor into the difference, population density being a huge factor.

More excuses and callous disregard. Btw...our population is almost 1/10th of yours. Even if your death rate was proportional you would be at roughly 300k. You are almost 3 times that. Your 1/3 stat is misleading. I'm out on this. The argument will never be resolved if it hasn't been already.

I love visiting the States but I don't see that happening for quite some time at this point. It's really too bad

 

[Andrew C]

I think it’s time for everyone to understand that, in general, the mindset of Americans is not the same as Canadians. We are different people. Simple as that. Time to move on because neither country is closer to ending the pandemic as it’s a worldwide problem, not a local one.

 

[DisneyCane]

The BIG DIFFERENCE is by just existing as to you call it, IMO if got us to the high vaccination rate that we have. Due to that we will see much lower hospitalizations overall.

The higher vaccination rate is due to a higher percentage of Canadians making the smart decision to get vaccinated. Nothing to do with just existing for almost 2 years. Every person in the US 16 and over could have been vaccinated before Summer 2021 if they chose to.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

The economy IS the lives of many people.
Their mortgages, rentals, food, education, child care... etc., all depend upon it.

True. Unfortunately, it is also true that having massive waves of this virus hurts the economy tremendously and when people suggest that "it's time to move on" because they're "over it" they don't realize that there is severe economic harm in that. The virus is the reason we have cargo ships floating in the ocean with no place to dock, stores and factories closing due to worker outbreaks, and shortages of products across the country. It's not like we have Spring/Summer 2020 lockdowns in effect right now, yet all of those factors I mentioned are among the biggest contributors to our current economic problems. It is very possible to take precautionary measures that don't cause small businesses to have to close. Nobody is going to say, "I'm not buying a new dishwasher from our local appliance store because our state has a mask mandate" - and if someone does say that then they're lying and trying to turn their decision to not replace an old appliance into a political statement. Vaccine mandates? Most people are already vaccinated and restaurants have already adapted to increased demand for takeout/delivery.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Nyquil (or the Walmart equivalent) extra strength dries me out somewhat when I have a cold and makes me tired but I've never found any other cold medicine to do anything for my symptoms.

Depending on which version of Nyquil you take you get:

An analgesic (pain reliever, usually acetaminophen [common brand: Tylenol], which one needs to be careful with, since taking more than recommended can damage the liver, so, don't take Tylenol in addition to Nyquil)​

​

A cough suppressant: dextromethorphan, whose effectiveness is doubtful​

​

An antihistamine: Doxylamine, which is what is likely drying you out as it tamps down the body's overreaction to a cold. It's also what makes one drowsy so that Nyquil can market itself as 'helps you get to sleep' medicine.​

I don't like combination drugs since you can't fine-tune what you need.

I keep these handy:

Four analgesics: aspirin, ibuprofen [Advil], acetaminophen [Tylenol], and naproxen [Aleve]. Usually in liquid gel form for quicker uptake. I rotate using them to avoid any rebound effect or building up a tolerance. The last two can be dangerous if you take more than the recommended dosage.​

Antihistamine: Chlorpheniramine [ChlorTrimeton]. It causes the least drowsiness of the first generation antihistamines.​

​

Caffeine pills: I don't drink coffee. Caffeine counteracts the drowsiness of the antihistamine. It is also, by itself, a recommended OTC medication for migraines (which I get). Excedrin, e.g., is aspirin plus caffeine. And marketing of marketing, "Exedrin PM" which "helps you sleep" is Excedrin without the caffeine, IOW, it's just plain aspirin and has no sleep-inducing benefits. Caffeine pills also help if your headache is from caffeine withdrawal.​

​

Pseudoephedrine: AKA, Sudafed. This is heavily regulated in the U.S. because in large quantities, it can be used to create Meth. So, you may have to show ID at a pharmacy to buy it. But, it is definitely a very very effective decongestant that can temporarily open up nasal passages and stop runny noses.​

​

A nasal decongestant: Usually Neo-Synephrine for short bursts of clear nose and stopping the nose from running for when I absolutely have to work or be about (e.g., go to the store) so that I'm not constantly blowing my nose.​

​

Visine-A: Visine with chlorphenarimine in it. Guaranteed (for me) to stop itching, running, dry, or red eyes.​

By keeping one's medications separated, you can use the right drug for the right purpose at the right time in the right dosage. E.g., to get to sleep while I have a cold, the decongestant allows for easy breathing, and the antihistamine's drowsiness is a plus.

For me, caffeine+antihistamine+analgesic can shut down an oncoming migraine (with Naproxen being the most effective analgesic). And if it's really bad, a second dose with a different analgesic is almost always a guaranteed solution.

But, before using any of these suggested meds, read their Wiki page info and the counterindications on the packaging for side effects, situations to avoid mixing drugs, and health conditions that would prevent you from taking these meds. Consult a doctor.

Also recommend buying large bottles (e.g., 300 count) and the generic (or store brand) version because that is much more cost efficient.

 

[Andrew C]

Depending on which version of Nyquil you take you get:

An analgesic (pain reliever, usually acetaminophen [common brand: Tylenol], which one needs to be careful with, since taking more than recommended can damage the liver, so, don't take Tylenol in addition to Nyquil)​

​

A cough suppressant: dextromethorphan, whose effectiveness is doubtful​

​

An antihistamine: Doxylamine, which is what is likely drying you out as it tamps down the body's overreaction to a cold. It's also what makes one drowsy so that Nyquil can market itself as 'helps you get to sleep' medicine.​

I don't like combination drugs since you can't fine-tune what you need.

I keep these handy:

Four analgesics: aspirin, ibuprofen [Advil], acetaminophen [Tylenol], and naproxen [Aleve]. Usually in liquid gel form for quicker uptake. I rotate using them to avoid any rebound effect or building up a tolerance. The last two can be dangerous if you take more than the recommended dosage.​

Antihistamine: Chlorpheniramine [ChlorTrimeton]. It causes the least drowsiness of the first generation antihistamines.​

​

Caffeine pills: I don't drink coffee. Caffeine counteracts the drowsiness of the antihistamine. It is also, by itself, a recommended OTC medication for migraines (which I get). Excedrin, e.g., is aspirin plus caffeine. And marketing of marketing, "Exedrin PM" which "helps you sleep" is Excedrin without the caffeine, IOW, it's just plain aspirin and has no sleep-inducing benefits. Caffeine pills also help if your headache is from caffeine withdrawal.​

​

Pseudoephedrine: AKA, Sudafed. This is heavily regulated in the U.S. because in large quantities, it can be used to create Meth. So, you may have to show ID at a pharmacy to buy it. But, it is definitely a very very effective decongestant that can temporarily open up nasal passages and stop runny noses.​

​

A nasal decongestant: Usually Neo-Synephrine for short bursts of clear nose and stopping the nose from running for when I absolutely have to work or be about (e.g., go to the store) so that I'm not constantly blowing my nose.​

​

Visine-A: Visine with chlorphenarimine in it. Guaranteed (for me) to stop itching, running, dry, or red eyes.​

By keeping ones medications separated, you can use the right drug for the right purpose at the right time in the right dosage. E.g., to get to sleep while I have a cold, the decongestant allows for easy breathing, and the antihistamine's drowsiness is a plus.

For me, caffeine+antihistamine+analgesic can shut down an oncoming migraine (with Naproxen being the most effective analgesic). And if it's really bad, a second dose with a different analgesic is almost always a guaranteed solution.

But, before using any of these suggested meds, read their Wiki page info and the counterindications on the packaging for side effects, situations to avoid mixing drugs, and health conditions that would prevent you from taking these meds. Consult a doctor.

Screenshot!

 

[Smooth]

Guaifenesin/Musinex would be something to consider having in your home medicine cabinet.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Many states did things a lot like Ontario. The vast majority of the US had some kind of stay at home order at the beginning so there was no give up right out of the gate.

What most Americans decided after some time was that we wanted to go on living and not just existing. From the descriptions (no personal experience) the good people of Ontario have lived significantly altered lives for 1 3/4 years to end up in the same spot as places who have just gone on relatively normally.

For far too many, the definition of "after some time" was immediately upon learning of whatever mitigations were announced. My wife and I were immediately criticized by family members for deciding to stop attending a weekly family dinner a week before NJ first shut down non-essential businesses in March 2020. When the shutdown went into effect, we were still asked if we were coming over for dinner despite the order in place to not have gatherings. That mindset is why most people now realize that any mitigation efforts can realistically only be enacted for public places and why nothing we do will be anywhere close to 100% effective since people will keep doing what they want in private settings with no regard for their potential to spread the virus to family and friends. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce the rate of spread to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed and try to prevent workplaces from closing due to lack of healthy staff available.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Even as contagious as it is and how rapidly it is spreading, nowhere near "everybody" will have Omicron simultaneously. Currently, the highest spread is in NYC where 2.3% of the population has become a case in the past 7 days. Even if each person needs to be out of work for a week on average, that's still only 2.3% of the work force missing simultaneously. Obviously, there will be wild variations between workplaces and some locations will be unable to operate temporarily but "the numbers" aren't as high as they appear when you view them in percentage terms.

Another way to look at it is if NYC stayed at that level it would take 43 weeks for the entire population to be infected. We know that the wave will not last that long, will hit a peak sometime in the next few weeks and then decline at roughly the same rate as it increased.

I hope late Spring 2022/Summer 2022 will bring the pandemic ending soon for the world as masks will be gone for good for trains, buses, and planes too.

 

[carolina_yankee]

Kind of difficult to social distance in NYC, the subway system being the primary way of getting around.

The MTA is shutting down whole lines because they don't have enough staff. Yesterday the W line was closed and service reduced on the other lines due to COVID.

We're not going to have a mandated shutdown. We're just going to have government controlled gatherings (like NYE Times Square) reduced or cancelled, individual reluctance, and system failures due to sickness.

 

[DisneyFan32]

The ice shelf holding back the 'Doomsday glacier' could shatter within the next five years, scientists warn | CNN

As the rapidly heating planet alters the landscape of the Arctic region up north, scientists have discovered disturbing and alarming signs at the southern end of the planet, particularly in one of the ice shelves safeguarding the Antarctic's so-called "Doomsday glacier."

www.cnn.com

Is the world is going to be end of the world?

 

[jlhwdw]

Someday

 

[Ayla]

The MTA is shutting down whole lines because they don't have enough staff. Yesterday the W line was closed and service reduced on the other lines due to COVID.

We're not going to have a mandated shutdown. We're just going to have government controlled gatherings (like NYE Times Square) reduced or cancelled, individual reluctance, and system failures due to sickness.

I agree, we won't have a mandated shutdown. But, what will happen, as we're already seeing, is businesses will close out of necessity, either because of staff shortages or to keep themselves and their employees safe.

We're already seeing those effects across all levels of sports (from high school all the way to pro), Broadway, metro transit services including airlines, restaurants, businesses and the hugely important one, healthcare.

 

[DisneyCane]

I hope late Spring 2022/Summer 2022 will bring the pandemic ending soon for the world as masks will be gone for good for trains, buses, and planes too.

Hope springs eternal!

 

[Ayla]

I forgot to add schools to my list. I know some schools and universities are reverting to virtual only learning for the first couple weeks when they return next week.

 

[correcaminos]

Twitter was talking about the R0 for Omicron and estimates of 10 are taken as reasonable. The update from the party in Norway was that while at the time of their positive tests most people were classified as asymtomatic, follow ups revealed 80/81 people developed symptoms. With the rate of breakthroughs, those three elements add up to extremely large numbers of symptomatic people all at once.

I might have to take back my thought and give the nod to @Touchdown about shutdown… because it seems unrealistic that places can operate when everyone feels like they got hit by a proverbial truck. Although unlike the Calgary Flames who cycled the players out and back in over 16 days… you know we are going to try “everyone showing up sick.”

The truck is how I feel right now. I definitely have something. Odds are Omicron since I was in Florida. DH’s rapid test last night was also negative, so that gives us some pause. If it’s not Omicron, based on the solid fever I spiked out of nowhere my second guess would be flu. My Dad’s PCR test is today, so we’ll see what that comes back as. But I probably will be scheduling a PCR test in addition to taking the other rapid test at some point.

I certainly would not want to be working while feeling this way. So if everyone is going to get it, can’t stop it, we would have to switch to a recovery operation. So do we let people have the option to stay in bed to recover? Or is this another thing we can’t afford?

Personally I'd test for flu. Don't wait too long or antivirals won't help

 

[Incomudro]

Look at.your numbers. Are you saying 830,000+ recorded deaths (not including excess mortality numbers). Is just the price to be paid for freedom?

Freedom comes with a price and a level of risk.
My wife (an RN) is the Director of Nursing at an assisted living facility.
A good portion of the people in that facility (most of them it seems) prefer their freedom at this late stage of their lives, over hiding and isolation.
They don't want to be locked in their rooms.
They don't hide in their rooms.
They'd rather take the risk of seeing friends and family now, over trying to secure some guarantee of a tomorrow.