Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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correcaminos

Well-Known Member
I’m just jaded by how awful the public has been…everyone in the US could be vaccinated 3x over at this point (if eligible) …and we are doing our collective best to pooch it.

the overall fully vaccinated rate is I believe 52-% over 18 and hasn’t moved at all for months.

pathetic.

I get flack for not particularly caring about “my opinions” on a wide range of subjects here (some even Disney 😉)…
And this illustrates why I didn’t: “my opinions” are wrong at least 50% of the time these days…and they spread like weeds
No real and true opinion is wrong (knowing full well not listening to facts is not the same as having an opinion). I am totally discouraged too by all of this. My own state is moving sooooo slow. It's ridiculous. So I get it. This does totally suck. I'm not 100% for mandates but the longer this goes the more I am. Spoken as someone packing masks for a trip that I didn't expect to need for.... sigh. Obviously I'll wear, just one more thing to worry about.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
No real and true opinion is wrong (knowing full well not listening to facts is not the same as having an opinion). I am totally discouraged too by all of this. My own state is moving sooooo slow. It's ridiculous. So I get it. This does totally suck. I'm not 100% for mandates but the longer this goes the more I am. Spoken as someone packing masks for a trip that I didn't expect to need for.... sigh. Obviously I'll wear, just one more thing to worry about.
Semantics…but we agree

the main beef I have is the contention that If people have an opinion…it no longer can be measured based on fact/fiction…right/wrong…or reasonable/unreasonable

which is of course not a thing. Not everyone gets a “correctness” medal or ribbon 🥇
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Semantics…but we agree

the main beef I have is the contention that If people have an opinion…it no longer can be measured based on fact/fiction…right/wrong…or reasonable/unreasonable

which is of course not a thing. Not everyone gets a “correctness” medal or ribbon 🥇
But don't we all deserve medals?

I do try to listen to different views. There are some things I have no patience for but most views are deserving of a listen. I do sometimes tick off everyone for my views. I don't think all have to agree all the time at least 😉

Going for smiles here
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Updates from CO...

We got our boosters yesterday. In-laws situation scared DH, and we are probably on the edge of needing/not needing (me more needing, him less) due to our other medical concerns. I still only have a sore arm by the injection site. DH is achy, fuzzy headed and really just wants to sleep. He has video training for work, so all he has to do is stay awake for a couple hours and thankfully not a full day of meetings where he has to be engaged. And as I'm typing this, it got canceled due to the presenter being unavailable due to a personal issue. So he's off the hook.

CO also authorized yesterday that any adult in the state qualifies for a booster seeing as we are all living in a high risk area right now, regardless of personal work/health/caregiver circumstances. No vaccine provider can turn down someone who asks for one. A FEMA team is assisting at a hospital in Pueblo, and 2 other FEMA teams have been ordered. The Governor has basically said at this point the consequences are predominately falling on the people who have chosen this path so we are going to do the "and find out" potion (I'm sure you all are smart enough to know what the first part is even though it is NSFWDWMAGIC). And the state has authorized "crisis standards of care."

I think the Governor is being naïve about who will be affected. Not re-instituting an indoor mask mandates or other restrictions isn't going to change the minds of people who are already outraged that COVID is a thing at all. All it does is signal to the healthcare workers, public health workers, the people who continue to be driven towards burnout, the people who did what they were asked, that you are less important to the state than all the loudmouths. I'm sure all these loudmouths are going to also be extremely loudmouthed about rising costs associated with finding enough health and public health workers who believe in public health in the future, and won't correlate it with the burnout happening now. We're completely willing to let good people walk away, change careers, make their own pandemic "off-ramp" that everyone is so concerned about and leave a large deficit. While simultaneously hand-wringing over potentially losing people in those fields who don't even believe most of what we did was even necessary. This came up in a totally unrelated to COVID discussion, but the idea that good and conscientious people will reach their limit, and just leave without all the loudmouth antics, and then at some point other people wonder what the heck happened and where everyone they depended on went. As if we didn't all witness a bunch of troublemakers, troublemaking to the point that someone gave in about something. We aren't really valuing some really essential workers, and there will be consequences.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Sorry, you are not in the right to tell people what to do. You spoke with your doctor. Allow others to do the same.

My EXACT words: "If you're worried, go talk to a doctor about your concerns. "

I've actually said it over and over again. At no time have I ever said that people shouldn't speak to their doctors about their concerns.


Do not judge at all if someone declines a booster after a legit issue.

I wouldn't. There are a very very tiny number of people with legitimate issues, and I'm not passing any judgment on them. If you speak to your doctor and your doctor tells you not to get the vaccine, then you shouldn't get it. Most people, despite having "serious side effects" from the earlier doses, will be advised to still get the vaccine.
But there are about 00.001% of people who will be advised against getting the vaccine.


Actually yes someone did and I called them for that see above - last I checked heart rates that high and afib are not something to ignore. Just because I make a comment doesn't mean I support anti-vax rhetoric. In fact if you read here at all you'd see totally differently. Read my posts here before trying to school me on this please. They absolutely are safe and effective and I have said it from day 1. If someone has that reaction an internet person has no right to say they need to and should not compare it to a day or two of flu like symptoms. It's like equating being punched in the gut to full on labor with no epidural.
Once again -- Which is why I said, if someone had a reaction that they are concerned about, they should speak to their doctor. They should NOT decide to pass on the vaccine without speaking to their doctor.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
My EXACT words: "If you're worried, go talk to a doctor about your concerns. "

I've actually said it over and over again. At no time have I ever said that people shouldn't speak to their doctors about their concerns.




I wouldn't. There are a very very tiny number of people with legitimate issues, and I'm not passing any judgment on them. If you speak to your doctor and your doctor tells you not to get the vaccine, then you shouldn't get it. Most people, despite having "serious side effects" from the earlier doses, will be advised to still get the vaccine.
But there are about 00.001% of people who will be advised against getting the vaccine.



Once again -- Which is why I said, if someone had a reaction that they are concerned about, they should speak to their doctor. They should NOT decide to pass on the vaccine without speaking to their doctor.
Sorry but this part stuck out
So yes --- "heart side effects" are completely normal and expected -- Arms out.

You put the caveat afterwards. Which the doctor might just go against you and say don't do it. So no, I'm not saying what you said above that I bolded, but we cannot pretend to be good enough to give sound medical advice. I don't even care if they talk to the doctor or not if the reaction was that really and truly severe. Not your in quotes severe either.

Honestly, I'm bowing out though. I know how this will end (it won't) and I really respect different opinions. Just like mine is a booster dose is not something one should be pushing. First vaccinations still are. With my state with maybe 56% IIRC vaccinated and some places still seeing increases for Delta, a booster is not my concern at all at this moment. Especially since this isn't even a universal booster all need.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Sorry but this part stuck out
So yes --- "heart side effects" are completely normal and expected -- Arms out.

You put the caveat afterwards. Which the doctor might just go against you and say don't do it. So no, I'm not saying what you said above that I bolded, but we cannot pretend to be good enough to give sound medical advice. I don't even care if they talk to the doctor or not if the reaction was that really and truly severe. Not your in quotes severe either.

Honestly, I'm bowing out though. I know how this will end (it won't) and I really respect different opinions. Just like mine is a booster dose is not something one should be pushing. First vaccinations still are. With my state with maybe 56% IIRC vaccinated and some places still seeing increases for Delta, a booster is not my concern at all at this moment. Especially since this isn't even a universal booster all need.
I don’t think you two are as opposed on this point as it seems…

side effects are of course a concern and not to be dismissed..:but reasonable nonetheless.

and the side effects in a vacuum ignores part of the story: what was the underlying health That may have contributed to the heart issues?

we talking marathoner in fantastic shape at age 58?…or 71 year old ex-smoker, overweight diabetic with hypertension?

to imply “my mom had side effects…therefore no one get a booster and don’t wear a mask on runaway railway..” leaves a lot of open territory unexplored
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Sorry but this part stuck out
So yes --- "heart side effects" are completely normal and expected -- Arms out.

You put the caveat afterwards.

I put the “caveat” before and after, and in every post. So yes… important to read the entire thing.

Which the doctor might just go against you and say don't do it. So no, I'm not saying what you said above that I bolded, but we cannot pretend to be good enough to give sound medical advice. I don't even care if they talk to the doctor or not if the reaction was that really and truly severe. Not your in quotes severe either.

See… I do care. No person should pass on a vaccine without talking to a doctor. It’s a free world, not going to force anyone to get a vaccine. But it is very foolish to pass on a vaccine without medical advice.


Honestly, I'm bowing out though. I know how this will end (it won't) and I really respect different opinions. Just like mine is a booster dose is not something one should be pushing.

So doctors shouldn’t push boosters?

See.. I don’t believe all opinions are equal. And when it comes to medical advice, I’ll give doctors far greater weight than I will random opinions.

So I’ll stand by my “opinion” — listen to your doctor. Don’t avoid a booster or vaccine because you’re afraid of side effects, speak to a doctor about your concerns. And for 99.99% of people, the doctor will assure you the vaccine is safe.

First vaccinations still are. With my state with maybe 56% IIRC vaccinated and some places still seeing increases for Delta, a booster is not my concern at all at this moment. Especially since this isn't even a universal booster all need.

That’s your opinion. Again, I’ll take scientists and doctors over it. There is significant dispute in the medical community about whether boosters are necessary. But there isn’t much dispute about whether they are helpful or hurtful. The overall consensus is that they are helpful — the dispute is whether they are helpful enough to be “necessary.”
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
I put the “caveat” before and after, and in every post. So yes… important to read the entire thing.



See… I do care. No person should pass on a vaccine without talking to a doctor. It’s a free world, not going to force anyone to get a vaccine. But it is very foolish to pass on a vaccine without medical advice.




So doctors shouldn’t push boosters?

See.. I don’t believe all opinions are equal. And when it comes to medical advice, I’ll give doctors far greater weight than I will random opinions.

So I’ll stand by my “opinion” — listen to your doctor. Don’t avoid a booster or vaccine because you’re afraid of side effects, speak to a doctor about your concerns. And for 99.99% of people, the doctor will assure you the vaccine is safe.



That’s your opinion. Again, I’ll take scientists and doctors over it. There is significant dispute in the medical community about whether boosters are necessary. But there isn’t much dispute about whether they are helpful or hurtful. The overall consensus is that they are helpful — the dispute is whether they are helpful enough to be “necessary.”

Not all agree with your opinion either.

Again I'm not here to argue. Please respect that I'm not one who wants to get into a never ending argument that comes across as rude to posters. You have your opinions and I have mine. I will respect yours if you mine. Have a nice night.
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
Sadly he did;
"What is going on in England is that they made a choice," said Dr. Fauci. "Everybody had this big spike, and then the spike started to come down. They made a choice that they were going to pull back on their mediation. In other words, they were going to not require masks in different places. They were going to pull back. Number two, they decided they were not going to vaccinate their children. And number three, the cold weather came and people started doing things indoors rather than outdoors. And that's when you get a surge in cases that are seeing the same thing in certain European countries, those countries that saw the cases go down, they pulled back on things like avoiding indoor settings, wearing masks indoors. They pulled back a little bit on their vaccination push, and that's when you get a surge."
 

DisneyFan32

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes

With Thanksgiving and the start of the holiday season two weeks away, coronavirus cases are on the rise again in Illinois, even as health officials push to get vaccines into the arms of young children and other unvaccinated residents and those who now qualify for booster shots.

Another 5,044 new confirmed and probable COVID-19 cases were reported by state health officials Wednesday, the most in a single day since Sept. 10. Over the past week, the state has averaged 3,122 cases per day, a 41% increase from the previous week and the highest level since late September, when the late-summer surge driven by the highly contagious delta variant was subsiding.

Just three weeks ago, Gov. J.B. Pritzker, encouraged by declining cases and hospitalizations, raised the possibility of lifting “certain mask mandates” in time for the holidays. But last week, noting that a drop in hospitalizations for COVID-19 had stalled, Pritzker said it was “not a good sign.”

Now, both cases and hospitalizations are rising as the weather turns cold and people spend more time indoors, bringing reminders of the state’s worst surge last fall.

“This recent increase could mark the beginning of yet another wave,” Illinois Department of Public Health spokeswoman Melaney Arnold said in a statement Wednesday.

“Our health partners have indicated that more people are moving indoors because of the cooler weather, but they are not bringing their masks with them,” Arnold said, noting that the same conditions fueled the surge late last year.

Along with the rise in cases, the average number of patients in hospitals statewide with COVID-19 is up 6.5% over the past week, reaching 1,332 per day during the week ending Tuesday, up from 1,251 per day the prior week.

Testing requirements in schools and workplaces have led to a substantial increase in the number of people being checked for COVID-19 in recent months. But the rise in cases has been accompanied by increases in the coronavirus positivity rate, which suggests the increase isn’t just a function of more people being screened for the virus. The statewide case positivity — the share of new cases as a percentage of total test — reached a seven-day average of 2.5% for the week ending Tuesday after dropping below 2% late last month.

A Tribune analysis of state health department data shows the spike in the average number of daily cases is part of a broader, two-week rise in detected infections.

The state breaks Illinois into 11 health regions, and the rise in new cases can be seen across the state. But it can be found most notably in the North region, which is basically northern Illinois west of the greater Chicago area.

Unlike some other regions outside Chicago, the North region wasn’t hit hard during the most recent surge, topping out around 30 new cases detected a day per 100,000 residents. But now its rate has topped 40 a day.

A close second is Illinois’ East-Central region, approaching 40 a day. The rates in Chicago and its suburbs, while rising, remain far lower, with rates ranging from 18 a day in Chicago to 28 per day in the region encompassing Will and Kankakee counties.

The rise in new cases detected has fed an increase over the past two weeks in the average number of Illinoisans hospitalized for COVID-19 each day.

While still far below the record high of more than 6,100 nearly a year ago, the latest figure — 1,332 — is about 100 more than the average on Oct. 30. Pritzker has cited trends in hospitalization figures as what’s kept him from lifting his indoor mask mandate.

Jaline Gerardin, a Northwestern University assistant professor of preventive medicine who works on virus modeling, said Illinois’ rising numbers are part of an increase being seeing in neighboring states as well.

“Everyone seems to be ticking up,” she said.

Despite the high levels of infection nationwide, Illinois is one of only a half-dozen states, along with Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C., that require masks in indoor public places, regardless of vaccination status.

When issuing the statewide mandate in late August, Pritzker cited guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that urge universal masking in areas of “substantial or high” coronavirus transmission. That still covers nearly all 102 counties in Illinois.

Unlike earlier stages in the pandemic, Pritzker hasn’t laid out specific bench marks for when he’ll lift the mask mandate, which — aside from targeted vaccination requirements for certain state employees and workers in other industries — is the main state mandate in place right now to slow the spread.

“We will continue to monitor hospital bed availability, case rates, and vaccine uptake,” Arnold said. “If data shows things might be stabilizing, we can look at lifting the requirement to wear a mask — something that adds a layer of protection on top of vaccination. The entire purpose of masking is to protect people, not penalize them.”

State surveys have shown that Pritzker’s first mask mandate was consistently followed less in rural areas compared with suburban and urban locales. That has raised questions about how effective mask requirements can be in reducing the spread in all areas of the state, particularly less vaccinated ones.

The state continues to partner with churches, community groups and other organizations to set up vaccination clinics those who have not yet received a shot, Arnold said. That includes close to 30% of Illinois residents 12 and older.

“It is possible the rates will drop again if people apply mitigation efforts: get vaccinated (including boosting), wash their hands, wear their masks, socially distance,” she said.

The widespread availability of vaccines, despite pockets of strong resistance, is a crucial difference from this time last year, when Illinois suffered its worst, deadliest surge. Hospitalizations in 2020 had generally been mild all summer before starting to rise in late September.

This latest rise in cases and hospitalizations didn’t begin until October, and this month’s rise follows two smaller surges. Those last surges illustrated the power of vaccinations to limit how many people get seriously ill from the virus.

The most recent week’s worth of data shows the unvaccinated were 3 ½ times as likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 as those fully vaccinated.

But the latest data also reconfirms that the vaccinated remain at some risk, particularly with studies showing vaccine immunity lessening over time.

That’s why health authorities have recommended booster shots for anyone who took the one-shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine, as well Pfizer and Moderna shot-takers who are 65 or older, or those at higher risk because of their medical conditions or jobs. Pfizer is now asking regulators to allow all adults to get boosters.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
My son went to the doc today for Pink eye and minor cold symptoms. While there, it was the perfect opportunity to ask his pediatrician if there are any concerns for him to get the vaccine. Once he is over these symptoms, we are going to get him vaccinated so he can be good near New Years.

Doc was so confident, he said most schools of thought is that it is even safer to give kids than to adults, which was of course, pretty darn safe as well as comfortable for the majority.
 

James J

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Sadly he did;
"What is going on in England is that they made a choice," said Dr. Fauci. "Everybody had this big spike, and then the spike started to come down. They made a choice that they were going to pull back on their mediation. In other words, they were going to not require masks in different places. They were going to pull back. Number two, they decided they were not going to vaccinate their children. And number three, the cold weather came and people started doing things indoors rather than outdoors. And that's when you get a surge in cases that are seeing the same thing in certain European countries, those countries that saw the cases go down, they pulled back on things like avoiding indoor settings, wearing masks indoors. They pulled back a little bit on their vaccination push, and that's when you get a surge."

Not that I disagree with all of what he's said, but our surge passed a few weeks ago and England's cases are now heading downwards again:

1636628792623.png


I did laugh at the cold weather bit - it would be correct except that apart from a few days last week, it really hasn't been cold here at all.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Covid19 is on the rise in the US. We are now up to 76,000 plus cases a day. However, the Southern US is still falling and Florida, the state with the lowest rate, is down to 1,423 cases a day or 6.63 cases per 100k. Disney should keep the indoor mask requirement for guests because of the large number of out of state guests.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Not that I disagree with all of what he's said, but our surge passed a few weeks ago and England's cases are now heading downwards again:

View attachment 599961

I did laugh at the cold weather bit - it would be correct except that apart from a few days last week, it really hasn't been cold here at all.
Our delta surge happened when vaccinations were still consistently climbing and it was hot as all hell this year…

who knows at this point?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Covid19 is on the rise in the US. We are now up to 76,000 plus cases a day. However, the Southern US is still falling and Florida, the state with the lowest rate, is down to 1,423 cases a day or 6.63 cases per 100k. Disney should keep the indoor mask requirement for guests because of the large number of out of state guests.
Nah…out of state visitors is only about 90% of the complex every single day of the year…why be worried? 😎
 
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