Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Ivermectin is an antiparisitic, it was initially designed to treat infections caused by parasites (eukaryotic single protozoan or multicelled animal infections.). It also may have some anti inflammatory effects but that is not nearly as well documented as it’s fellow antiparistic drug, hydroxychorolquine. It remains highly unlikely this will treat a viral infection well. We have far more safe and effective treatments out there (the vaccine, monoclonal antibodies, this new drug from Merck, etc.). Your analogy is a poor one.
I understand there was an element of just trying anything and everything, but I just don‘t understand why someone would think an antiparasitic Would be the key to treating a viral infection. And not just once, but twice now. Is there something about them or these two specifically that would make them seem like good candidates?
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
I understand there was an element of just trying anything and everything, but I just don‘t understand why someone would think an antiparasitic Would be the key to treating a viral infection. And not just once, but twice now. Is there something about them or these two specifically that would make them seem like good candidates?

I think there are 3 factors at play now:

1. These drugs aren't masks.
2. These drugs aren't vaccines.
3. Somebody on YouTube or social media said it works, and everyone knows nobody ever posts anything there that isn't 100% accurate (unless it's an opposing viewpoint, of course).
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Bactrim.... won't stop you from contracting AIDS, but greatly reduces the chances of hospitalization and mortality.
And it also has potentially severe interactions with a common blood pressure medication, some people are trully allergic to it, it can't be used in some people with chronic kidney disease, and overuse can lead to resistance, not just for Pneumocystis, but for several other commom bacteria, like E. coli.

This is why use of bactrim as a prophylactic required careful nuance, rather than just automatically giving it to everyone with AIDS, which is what some of the activists wanted.

But at least bactrim was a known and proven treatment for certain AIDS-defining illnesses (as the other poster pointed out, it doesn't act against HIV itself). Ivermectin has thus far not shown any benefit against COVID. If properly conducted, large scale trials actually show some efficacy, I'll be the first one to change my opinion, but I have my doubts. Why some have latched onto ivermectin has the hill to die upon, I simply don't understand.

EDIT: At best, without anti-retroviral treatment, bactrim can only delay mortality in AIDS. If the CD4 count doesn't recover (and bactrim has no effect on this), AIDS has nearly 100% mortality.
 
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Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
I understand there was an element of just trying anything and everything, but I just don‘t understand why someone would think an antiparasitic Would be the key to treating a viral infection. And not just once, but twice now. Is there something about them or these two specifically that would make them seem like good candidates?
From the science stand-point, here's how ivermectin entered the picture:

1) For any novel infectious agent, be it a virus, bacteria, fungus or parasite, the first step in researching treatments is to grow the agent in vitro, then throw the kitchen sink at it to find possible treatment candidates. Most of these initial leads will end up as dead-ends on further in vivo research. Ivermectin did show some in vitro promise.

2) Early in the pandemic, the "cytokine storm" was thought to be the major cause of mortality in COVID patients, so any treatment that could dampen this response received further attention. Ivermectin has some known mild anti-inflammatory properties, so it became a potential candidate. This is also how hydroxychloroquine entered the picture. Doxycycline and azithromycin also recieved some attention for the same reason, although they surprisinly flew under the public's radar.

We now known that the cytokine storm is of secondary importance to preventing unchecked viral replication in the first place, although corticosteroids have shown to give a modest survival benefit.

3) Because the developing world uses ivermectin far more often than the rich world, some doctors in these countries focused their search for treatments more closely on this drug (remdesevir or monoclonal antibodies, for example, would have been far more difficult for them to obtain). One published study from Argentina seemed to show ivermectin's efficacy, but this trial suffered from very poor randomization... patients in the treatment arm were much healthier at baseline, and thus more likely to survive anyway. This study initially caused a blip of attention, but the design flaws were soon thereafter apparent. But that didn't stop all the contrarians and "independent thinkers" from latching on to it.

Subsequently, many small trials have either shown a mild or no benefit, but they mostly suffer from basic design flaws. The kind of large-scale, high quality trials that would provide compelling evidence for or against ivermectin's use in COVID are either lacking or not yet published. Some trials were prematurely stopped because their was evidence the drug was actually causing harm.

So, here we are. Anecdotal evidence doesn't seem to suggest ivermectin will have any role in COVID-19 treatment, which is usually enough to move on to other candidates. If the data for molnupiravir matches the enthusiasm of the press releases, we'll have a new standard of care for outpatient treatment. That would further narrow the potential window for ivermectin, because now any new medication would need to be tested against the existing standard of care, and not merely against placebo. So, that would really only leave ivermectin's role as a possible treatment against severe COVID-19, and so far, the anecdotal evidence for this would argue against this use.

Barring the off chance some new compelling evidence surfaces, we should no more discuss ivermectin in the context of COVID than we should tincture of mercury for syphillis.
 
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DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Broward County is at 82% vaccinated and Dade (with a lot of crossover traffic) at 93%. Palm Beach lags at 75%, just ahead of Orange.
Just to clarify, those are percent of 12+, not population. For total population Miami-Dade is at 80%, Broward is 70.6% and Palm Beach is at 65.5%.

Of note, Miami-Dade is 11th worst (out of 67) in cases per 100k for the week even though it has, in many cases by far, the highest percentage of eligible with at least one shot.
 

Rescue Ranger

Well-Known Member
Finishing up our 50th trip today before heading to Vero Beach tomorrow for the first time. Overall, an amazing visit with Hollywood Studios and Epcot being highlights. Animal Kingdom was absolutely fantastic.

Wasnt sure what to expect with covid. Haven't been since 2018. Magic Kingdom was a disaster. The insane overcrowding at MK definitely caught us off guard. It's busier than we expected overall, but MK in particular was inconceivable. If anything left a negative impression, it was that MK chaos. Worst visit in all my years of vacations here.

To add to that, fellow guests who felt entitled with no regard for others or the parks. Cast Members who had ZERO knowledge of anything(no idea about beacons, hours, show times or were just not very nice). This was mostly at Magic Kingdom. Animal Kingdom seemed to have the absolute best Cast.

Pin trading very inconsistent. Every CM seemed to have their own different rules.

Landscaping still shined, but lack of maintenance at resorts and parks was also noticeable. Such as breakage, damaged paint or just features in general not working or being repaired/touched up. Being the 50th and all the recent down time during covid, I expected better.

All that said, the Magic is still here and we had a great jam packed week. The Magic is just dimmed. Oga's and Space 220 were incredible. I still absolutely love it here. But a lot needs to be done. Better leadership? Covid free will help? I suppose we will see in the future. Hoping for the best. However I think our next trip we may look at cruising and hold off on WDW until the situation here improves. Excited for Vero Beach!!
 
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LovePop

Well-Known Member
News today: "The researchers found that among more than 600,000 veterans, J&J's vaccine's protection fell from 88% in March to 3% in August. Meanwhile, Moderna's vaccine protection against infection fell to 64% from 92%, and Pfizer's declined to 50% from 91% during that same time period."

I find this interesting, being that I and family got the J&J in May. So we should be at the 3% protection right now. I'm wondering if I should get the booster shot, in case it gets approved, before my next WDW trip in 2 weeks. It usually takes 3 weeks for the shot to take full effect, I think. Don't know.

 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
News today: "The researchers found that among more than 600,000 veterans, J&J's vaccine's protection fell from 88% in March to 3% in August. Meanwhile, Moderna's vaccine protection against infection fell to 64% from 92%, and Pfizer's declined to 50% from 91% during that same time period."

I find this interesting, being that I and family got the J&J in May. So we should be at the 3% protection right now. I'm wondering if I should get the booster shot, in case it gets approved, before my next WDW trip in 2 weeks. It usually takes 3 weeks for the shot to take full effect, I think. Don't know.

Keep in mind elderly deal with immunosenescence as it is. It's always been a concern with those who age and was part of concerns even while we were in testing phases https://theconversation.com/why-vac...elderly-and-what-it-means-for-covid-19-141971

Some with veterans could be attributed to that. Smart to look at specific populations though.

Single dose J&J was 2-4 weeks. Most other doses were talking Since only the FDA signed off you won't get your 2 full weeks in. But you may be significantly higher than 3% age depending.
 

DonniePeverley

Well-Known Member
News today: "The researchers found that among more than 600,000 veterans, J&J's vaccine's protection fell from 88% in March to 3% in August. Meanwhile, Moderna's vaccine protection against infection fell to 64% from 92%, and Pfizer's declined to 50% from 91% during that same time period."

I find this interesting, being that I and family got the J&J in May. So we should be at the 3% protection right now. I'm wondering if I should get the booster shot, in case it gets approved, before my next WDW trip in 2 weeks. It usually takes 3 weeks for the shot to take full effect, I think. Don't know.


So these vaccines are going to be a yearly thing - or do we have memory cells that i keep hearing about etc?
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
So these vaccines are going to be a yearly thing - or do we have memory cells that i keep hearing about etc?
I don’t think anyone knows right now, we are still in the study phase, some studies show antibodies falling, others show t-cells holding steady… it’ll probably be months or years before we know definitively.

Hospital cases are still vastly the unvaccinated so anecdotal evidence seems to imply the vaccines are still working well, even if there’s conflicting scientific studies regarding how affective they are months after our last dose.
 

Rescue Ranger

Well-Known Member
I can't wait for CMs from all over to come back. On this trip I have never come across so many Cast Members who lack any knowledge of the parks or Disney in general. Don't know anything about the merch, hours or about the store or park they even work in. Never seen it like this.

Biggest change I've noticed since covid.
 

lewisc

Well-Known Member
So these vaccines are going to be a yearly thing - or do we have memory cells that i keep hearing about etc?
The pneumonia vaccine is 2 shots, a year apart. I've read, on the internet so it must be true,:) we gave the 2 shots too close together.

Flu shot is every year. Maybe the Covid booster and annual flu shot will eventually be combined.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
The pneumonia vaccine is 2 shots, a year apart. I've read, on the internet so it must be true,:) we gave the 2 shots too close together.

Flu shot is every year. Maybe the Covid booster and annual flu shot will eventually be combined.
Toss some diphtheria, pertussis, shingles, tetanus, measles in with the flu/covid and you have a partay!!
 

Smooth

Well-Known Member
The pneumonia vaccine is 2 shots, a year apart. I've read, on the internet so it must be true,:) we gave the 2 shots too close together.

Flu shot is every year. Maybe the Covid booster and annual flu shot will eventually be combined.
I just got a pneumonia vaccine last week. The doc told me it would be good for about ten years. 🤷‍♂️
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I don’t think anyone knows right now, we are still in the study phase, some studies show antibodies falling, others show t-cells holding steady… it’ll probably be months or years before we know definitively.

Hospital cases are still vastly the unvaccinated so anecdotal evidence seems to imply the vaccines are still working well, even if there’s conflicting scientific studies regarding how affective they are months after our last dose.
Memory cells are the second line of defense. If the antibodies fail or get overwhelmed, thats when the memory cells kick in. You're infected now, but those will fight to prevent you from getting sicker.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Memory cells are the second line of defense. If the antibodies fail or get overwhelmed, thats when the memory cells kick in. You're infected now, but those will fight to prevent you from getting sicker.
No, No, No.

Your primary line of defense your body has to infection is your skin/mucosa/other external protection (the hairs lining your nose, your lungs mucus and cillary ladder, saliva) that block 99% of all pathogens from even entering your body.

After that you have your immune system infantry, the inate immunity response (neutrophils, basophils, eosinophils, NK cells) that can usually sense when something is not part of you and destroy it on contact. This is not a targeted response, and things slip through but a vast majority of invaders who slip into your body are destroyed before your secondary immune system is activated (get it, the inate immune system is your primary immune system because it does a majority of the work.)

Finally if a pathogen is able to evade the inate immune system the secondary immune system is there, this includes Antibodies, all types of T-cells, and all types of B-cells/Plasma Cells. Antibodies are made by plasma cells, plasma cells are transformed B-cells who have essentially just become antibody making machines. Helper T-cells are the support staff who help activate b-cells, direct the inate immune system to target certain known pathogens, and Killer T-cells are assassins who seek out and destroy known threats in a targeted way. They all work together and can’t exist without the other (as all of these cells when activated will cause a synergistic activation of the other lines.) One part of your secondary immune system is not superior to another part, and for proof you only need to look at how HIV destroys your immune system. HIV only infects Helper-T cells, it doesn’t kill any other immune cell line but if left unchecked it will completely destroy practically every helper T-cell in your body. When that happens, you lose your entire secondary immune system, and when that happens that is when you are diagnosed with AIDS (Acquired ImmunoDeficiency Syndrome.)
 
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