Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[correcaminos]

To be clear….all vaccines do something. JnJ and AZ still have a high level of efficacy even against mild infection. Even on transmission the AZ vaccine showed a significant decrease in transmission but that decrease waned over time.

Of course all vaccines do something. I think you're putting me in an unfair category simply because I stated the AZ/Oxford news wasn't as favorable since the diminishing transmission did fade over time. This is good news, but even though few here had the AZ/Oxford vaccine, we need to be cautioned with J&J until we can learn more.

Just because I am being cautious with this, doesn't mean I don't believe vaccines are not doing anything. Look at who is posting this... one of the bigger pro-vax people here.

 

[correcaminos]

J&J is doing better than Pfizer over time isn’t it?

It's showing waning efficacy they think too

For People Who Got The J&J Vaccine, Some Doctors Are Advising Boosters ASAP

Boosters are available for higher-risk people who got the Pfizer vaccine. But what about people who got the one-shot Johnson & Johnson? Some doctors say they need an extra shot even more urgently.

www.npr.org

Still good though! These efficacy numbers are still better than hoped for.

 

[Andrew C]

It's showing waning efficacy they think too

For People Who Got The J&J Vaccine, Some Doctors Are Advising Boosters ASAP

Boosters are available for higher-risk people who got the Pfizer vaccine. But what about people who got the one-shot Johnson & Johnson? Some doctors say they need an extra shot even more urgently.

www.npr.org

Still good though! These efficacy numbers are still better than hoped for.

After the April (I think it was April) incident, this vaccine really never recovered. One of the great mistakes of the roll-out.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think it’s probably time for me to take a break from this thread for a while. I am very excited to get my youngest the vaccine (hopefully in less than a month ) and then I’ve done what I can. There is nothing more for me to say here except I wish everyone well and I hope that in the end we do find a path out of this pandemic. It’s seeming less and less likely every day to me and that’s pretty sad

 

[mmascari]

I think it’s probably time for me to take a break from this thread for a while. I am very excited to get my youngest the vaccine (hopefully in less than a month ) and then I’ve done what I can. There is nothing more for me to say here except I wish everyone well and I hope that in the end we do find a path out of this pandemic. It’s seeming less and less likely every day to me and that’s pretty sad

Gahhhhh, we've killed Hope.

Now we're all doomed. DOOMED, I say!

 

[LovePop]

I got to thinking, right now, people who are unvaccinated are around 3 times as likely to catch covid and 10 times as likely to be hospitalized or die, compared to vaccinated people. This statistics should eventually change in time so that the unvaccinated are LESS likely to die from covid, for this reason:

As time goes by, all the unvaccinated should catch covid, which means they will either survive and get natural immunity, or die, so that eventually the "weak" ones will all be eliminated and only those who are "strong" against covid will be left. The vaccinated group, in the mean time, are preserving their weak ones, so on paper, vaccination will appear less effective at preventing death.

If this happens, then we know that covid has spread through the entire population.

One way my theory will not work is if natural immunity doesn't work well compared to vaccine immunity such that the unvaccinated group continues to have high casualties no matter how many times they catch covid.

 

[Nubs70]

Yep, nobody in the US has the AstraZeneca vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine still had a benefit even months later. Compelling evidence….but you keep digging

Not digging.

Initial post was comparing vaccinated/unvaccinated. Within the source referenced there was a differentiation with AZ vaccine. Yes the AZ vaccine in not used in the US. This website is viewed and participated in by many outside the US. So to acknowledge AZ vaccine behaves differently, helps clarify the findings of the posted source. To classify as solely vaccinated/unvaccinated is misleading.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

At least one Canadian province is doing boosters for anyone who got AstraZeneca or J&J.

Not surprising and a reason I was never too concerned about different efficacy numbers and which vaccine is the "best".

It was inevitable we'd all be getting boosters sooner rather than later anyway.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-third-doses-expanded-health-care-viral-vector-1.6201014

 

[dreday3]

I think it’s probably time for me to take a break from this thread for a while. I am very excited to get my youngest the vaccine (hopefully in less than a month ) and then I’ve done what I can. There is nothing more for me to say here except I wish everyone well and I hope that in the end we do find a path out of this pandemic. It’s seeming less and less likely every day to me and that’s pretty sad

Stay happy and healthy!

Honestly, outside of wearing masks indoors, our lives are completely back to normal. Going to office, out to eat, movies, visiting people, going on vacation. We are vaccinated and follow masking rules.

Hang in there!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It's showing waning efficacy they think too

For People Who Got The J&J Vaccine, Some Doctors Are Advising Boosters ASAP

Boosters are available for higher-risk people who got the Pfizer vaccine. But what about people who got the one-shot Johnson & Johnson? Some doctors say they need an extra shot even more urgently.

www.npr.org

Still good though! These efficacy numbers are still better than hoped for.

That doesn’t seem to line up with what J&J reported.

https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson...on-of-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-in-the-u-s

 

[correcaminos]

That doesn’t seem to line up with what J&J reported.

https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson...on-of-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-in-the-u-s

Their numbers are from the Phase 3 trial. CDC is a larger population. Look at the data linked in the article. It has a lot of info

 

[Bob Harlem]

I think it’s probably time for me to take a break from this thread for a while. I am very excited to get my youngest the vaccine (hopefully in less than a month ) and then I’ve done what I can. There is nothing more for me to say here except I wish everyone well and I hope that in the end we do find a path out of this pandemic. It’s seeming less and less likely every day to me and that’s pretty sad

The EUA for kids under 12 is not a shoe in, there is data on the FDA site that suggests it does not rise to the level of emergency that is required for the threshold (which is a lot higher for children than adults). It may be similar to boosters where only certain conditions allow for it. We will see though.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Their numbers are from the Phase 3 trial. CDC is a larger population. Look at the data linked in the article. It has a lot of info

Oh interesting. This gets soooo confusing!

 

[MisterPenguin]

It's showing waning efficacy they think too

For People Who Got The J&J Vaccine, Some Doctors Are Advising Boosters ASAP

Boosters are available for higher-risk people who got the Pfizer vaccine. But what about people who got the one-shot Johnson & Johnson? Some doctors say they need an extra shot even more urgently.

www.npr.org

Still good though! These efficacy numbers are still better than hoped for.

Indeed.

The important thing to remember with "waning efficiency" is to ask, "efficiency at doing what?"

For PFZ and MOD, the waning efficiency is to "infection." That is, a test shows you are infected. As we know, you can be infected and not know it because of COVID's asymptomatic profile. That waning efficiency isn't at the level of panic yet. Especially when you compare it to the vaccine's other efficiency, namely, at preventing hospitalization and death. For PFZ and MOD, that efficiency is still strong and has not waned to the point of concern.

J&J's and AZ's waning efficiencies is more concerning since what is waning is not only protection from infection, but from hospitalization and death. It is highly likely that the FDA will soon take up the issue of J&J's waning efficiencies and put out a recommendation of allowing a booster for J&J (either with another J&J shot or with PFZ).

 

[correcaminos]

Oh interesting. This gets soooo confusing!

Numbers didn't seem hugely off seeing the ranges on J&J, but larger populations do help for sure. IIRC J&J was about 40k as well so not tiny either.

 

[DCBaker]

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau unveiled his government's mandatory vaccine policy today — a mandate that will require public servants to either get their shots by month's end or be forced into an unpaid leave of absence."

"Starting on Oct. 30, all employers in federally regulated air, rail and marine transportation sectors will be required to implement mandatory vaccination policies for their organizations. After a short phase-in period, these companies will be required to guarantee their employees are fully vaccinated; unvaccinated workers would be forced off the job.

All airline and airport staff, including people who work at restaurants or retail stores in the post-security area, must be fully vaccinated. All employees of federally regulated railways, including rail crew and track employees, must have their shots. Marine operators with Canadian vessels must also ensure their workers are vaccinated."

"As of Oct. 30, all travellers aged 12 and older taking flights leaving Canadian airports or travelling on VIA Rail and Rocky Mountaineer trains must be fully vaccinated before boarding. Marine passengers on non-essential passenger vessels like cruise ships must also complete the vaccination series before travelling.

"For the vast, vast majority of people, the rules are very simple — to travel, you've got to be vaccinated," Trudeau said.

"If you haven't gotten your shots yet but want to travel this winter, let me be clear, there will only be a few extremely narrow exceptions, like a valid medical condition."

It will be up to air, rail and marine operators to "establish processes to verify vaccine status," a government official said, adding the government expects these companies to accept provincial vaccine passports as proof of status. A standardized, pan-Canadian proof of vaccination document for international travel is still in the works, but the details have not yet been announced."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-vaccine-mandate-1.6201528

 

[MisterPenguin]

I got to thinking, right now, people who are unvaccinated are around 3 times as likely to catch covid and 10 times as likely to be hospitalized or die, compared to vaccinated people. This statistics should eventually change in time so that the unvaccinated are LESS likely to die from covid, for this reason:

As time goes by, all the unvaccinated should catch covid, which means they will either survive and get natural immunity, or die, so that eventually the "weak" ones will all be eliminated and only those who are "strong" against covid will be left. The vaccinated group, in the mean time, are preserving their weak ones, so on paper, vaccination will appear less effective at preventing death.

If this happens, then we know that covid has spread through the entire population.

One way my theory will not work is if natural immunity doesn't work well compared to vaccine immunity such that the unvaccinated group continues to have high casualties no matter how many times they catch covid.

We've discussed this before with the talking point from anti-vaxxers that claims once everyone gets infected, then natural immunity will provide herd immunity or kill it off, or cause it to become as mild as the common cold.

Those are all myths. Just look at the number of terrible diseases that have been around for hundreds of years and were not killed off, or were not made trivial through herd immunity, or did not become as mild as the common cold -- for example: bubonic plague, polio, small pox, measles.

And consider the flu. As it continues to bounce around the world wide population, it keep mutating and escaping our vaccines and occasionally mutates into some much, much more deadly (Spanish Flu, Swine Flu).

In an ideal world in which diseases weren't that deadly and never mutated, we could wait it out with 'natural immunity.' But Sars-COVID shows it is the quickly mutating kind that can suddenly get more contagious (and thus suddenly be more dangerous to certain groups, such as children).

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It is highly likely that the FDA will soon take up the issue of J&J's waning efficiencies and put out a recommendation of allowing a booster for J&J (either with another J&J shot or with PFZ).

Wouldn’t that require a whole new round of tests? And why would you mix j&j with Pfizer vs. moderna?

If I could go back I’d get moderna that’s for sure!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wouldn’t that require a whole new round of tests? And why would you mix j&j with Pfizer vs. moderna?

If I could go back I’d get moderna that’s for sure!

Maybe....

Or... if J&J is considered too waneful to be of use, they can just go ahead and tell people to start with another vaccine.

 

[correcaminos]

Wouldn’t that require a whole new round of tests? And why would you mix j&j with Pfizer vs. moderna?

If I could go back I’d get moderna that’s for sure!

First of all. All the vaccines are excellent. Period. Stop viewing some as inferior. It's not going to help if you nitpick.

Second there are studies looking into mixing vaccines so it may be valid. Mixing so far sounds like not a bad idea. Not something I can do, but I think it's showing to be a good idea.

Mix-and-match COVID vaccines: the case is growing, but questions remain

A slew of studies suggests that mixing vaccines provokes potent immune responses, but scientists still want answers on real-world efficacy and rare side effects.

www.nature.com

Potential of COVID-19 Vaccine Mixing AstraZeneca and Pfizer Combination

Explore the practice of COVID-19 vaccine mixing, including AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines, with Pharmaceutical Technology. Delve into insightful features examining the efficacy, safety

www.pharmaceutical-technology.com

Third, take a deep breath. Your whichever shot isn't crap. Try not to stress. Really. If you qualify for boosters get them. Otherwise know you are still insanely well protected

Don't get a booster shot before you're eligible â here's why

Getting a third-dose Covid booster shot before you're eligible won't benefit you, and waiting could actually help you. Here's why, according to infectious disease experts.

www.cnbc.com