Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Vaccinated people spreading covid is what prompted the CDC to reverse it's mask guidance in July. At the time I thought they were really stretching connecting alot of dots to cover their butt. They had cases spiking like mad, alot of mayors and elected officials calling for masks to be brought back and they (I feel) jumped to conclusions that vaccinated people were spreading tons of new covid cases.

Did they ever say it was because vaccinated people were spreading Covid though? The recommendations have changed so often I can’t remember.

I thought the problem was that unvaccinated people stopped wearing masks also, since no one was checking, and that’s what caused the massive increase.

With no system in place to verify who was and wasn’t vaccinated the only option was to return to masks for everyone to make sure the unvaccinated were wearing them.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I wish the mask mandate, testing etc will be over by next year as the pandemic is slowly ending soon.

 

[BrianLo]

At least one Canadian province is doing boosters for anyone who got AstraZeneca or J&J.

Not surprising and a reason I was never too concerned about different efficacy numbers and which vaccine is the "best".

It was inevitable we'd all be getting boosters sooner rather than later anyway.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-third-doses-expanded-health-care-viral-vector-1.6201014

Yup, I qualified for a Pfizer Booster in Alberta as well. Pfizer -> AZ -> Pfizer here.

Ironically, only AZ made me symptomatic.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I thought the problem was that unvaccinated people stopped wearing masks also, since no one was checking, and that’s what caused the massive increase.

The massive increase was because mainly of a new variant which was definitely much, much more contagious.

That's why indoor mask usage was again recommended, even for the vaccinated, to deal with the Delta Variant. Which was more contagious for the masked and the unmasked, the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

When a disease's spread increases, you initiate protocols to slow the spread. Even if it was a protocol you had stopped using when the numbers were down.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

First of all. All the vaccines are excellent. Period. Stop viewing some as inferior. It's not going to help if you nitpick.

I wasn’t saying any were inferior. I mean it does look like Moderna is the best but I’m not particularly worried. I was more responding to this general attitude....

Or... if J&J is considered to waneful to be of use, they can just go ahead and tell people to start with another vaccine.

 

[hopemax]

Gahhhhh, we've killed Hope.

Now we're all doomed. DOOMED, I say!

I'm still here.

 

[mmascari]

I'm still here.

You're literally a Hope though, not the Official Spokesperson for Hope as a concept.

@GoofGoof has been the voice of Hope instead of Despair for this entire thread. It's very consistent over thousands of pages. If we've done in him, we're beyond redemption now.

 

[hopemax]

You're literally a Hope though, not the Official Spokesperson for Hope as a concept.

@GoofGoof has been the voice of Hope instead of Despair for this entire thread. It's very consistent over thousands of pages. If we've done in him, we're beyond redemption now.

Actually, this is the frustrating thing. I am actually a very optimistic and hopeful person, especially over the long term. But I'm not going to paint the reality of a situation as good when it's not. I am not going to say something is over, when there is a the entire human history indicating things like this take years. But here, I'm one of the captains of Team Doom & Gloom. Hope is what gets people through tough situations, hope isn't denying the realities of the tough situations or mis-identifying where in the timeline we are vs where we want to be.

 

[mmascari]

But here, I'm one of the captains of Team Doom & Gloom.

I'll be happy to call you captain.

I like to think of us as "Team Observers" instead of "Doom & Gloom". It's just that we're observing someone saying "Hold my beer" as they do something guaranteed to extend the pandemic.

 

[Lilofan]

You're literally a Hope though, not the Official Spokesperson for Hope as a concept.

@GoofGoof has been the voice of Hope instead of Despair for this entire thread. It's very consistent over thousands of pages. If we've done in him, we're beyond redemption now.

@GoofGoof was the man when it came to the NBA bubble at WDW! Much appreciated!

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

We've discussed this before with the talking point from anti-vaxxers that claims once everyone gets infected, then natural immunity will provide herd immunity or kill it off, or cause it to become as mild as the common cold.

Those are all myths.

These aren’t really myths or anti-vaxxer talking points, herd immunity is a scientific reality. Even without a vaccine we’d eventually develop a natural herd immunity. That doesn’t mean a disease is eliminated, it just means it’s manageable.

That said it makes no sense to have tens of millions needlessly die in the process when vaccines can achieve immunity quicker and without the deaths.

I’m 100% pro vax, have had mine since April, but the anti-vaxxers will eventually develop natural immunity, get vaxxed, or die… that’s their 3 choices. No matter what they choose to do cases will drop as there’s fewer and fewer viable hosts. We are seeing this in Florida right now.

As you said the real risk is mutations because that restarts the whole cycle over at square one… which is where the speed of vaccines becomes as important as preventing death.

 

[correcaminos]

I wasn’t saying any were inferior. I mean it does look like Moderna is the best but I’m not particularly worried. I was more responding to this general attitude....

Ah gotcha. I misread your tone. I thought you were overly worried. So read my tone as loving more than anything.

I do think we're all okay as a whole. Elderly or immune compromised might be concerned.

An immunologist friend of mine is watching globally and feels we just did shots too close.... hope that's the case because that's easier long term.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

These aren’t really myths or anti-vaxxer talking points, herd immunity is a scientific reality. Even without a vaccine we’d eventually develop a natural herd immunity. That doesn’t mean a disease is irradiated, it just means it’s manageable.

That said it makes no sense to have tens of millions needlessly die in the process when vaccines can achieve immunity quicker and without the deaths.

I’m 100% pro vax, have had mine since April, but the anti-vaxxers will eventually develop natural immunity, get vaxxed, or die… that’s their 3 choices. No matter what they choose to do cases will drop as there’s fewer and fewer viable hosts. We are seeing this in Florida right now.

As you said the real risk is mutations because that restarts the whole cycle over at square one… which is where the speed of vaccines becomes as important as preventing death.

This is a very good read about why herd immunity with COVID is probably impossible. Written back in March but nothing really has changed except for now knowing it can be spread even if vaccinated. Which actually makes it even tougher to get to herd immunity. To many variables with COVID.

Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible

Even with vaccination efforts in full force, the theoretical threshold for vanquishing COVID-19 looks to be out of reach.

www.nature.com

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This is a very good read about why herd immunity with COVID is probably impossible. Written back in March but nothing really has changed except for now knowing it can be spread even if vaccinated. Which actually makes it even tougher to get to herd immunity. To many variables with COVID.

Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible

Even with vaccination efforts in full force, the theoretical threshold for vanquishing COVID-19 looks to be out of reach.

www.nature.com

Sadly herd immunity isn’t an exact science so we can both find dozens of opposing views to support both are claims.

This is the one I read months ago that alway pops into my head when I hear herd immunity, probably because it reinforced my pre-existing beliefs about herd immunity. The problem with so much instant (and often conflicting) data is it’s easy to find one that says what we want it too.

Herd Immunity: Will We Ever Get There?

Yale Medicine experts discuss the hurdles to reaching herd immunity for COVID-19.

www.yalemedicine.org

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Ah gotcha. I misread your tone. I thought you were overly worried. So read my tone as loving more than anything.

I was worried when the link to GBS was announced.... but we are past that so I’m in the clear! Now if I have to get a 2nd shot to stay “fully vaxxed” I’ll worry about that all over again. Haha.

But no, all the vaccines are doing the job in my book.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Sadly herd immunity isn’t an exact science so we can both find dozens of opposing views to support both are claims.

This is the one I read months ago that alway pops into my head when I hear herd immunity, probably because it reinforced my pre-existing beliefs about herd immunity. The problem with so much instant (and often conflicting) data is it’s easy to find one that says what we want it too.

Herd Immunity: Will We Ever Get There?

Yale Medicine experts discuss the hurdles to reaching herd immunity for COVID-19.

www.yalemedicine.org

Most experts now believe it’s impossible. Most major scientific organizations and individual scientists that work with this say the same thing. I wish it wasn’t true, to have a possibility of dsome hope but doesn’t look that way. Agree with finding things to support our own beliefs but like with climate change and other things along those lines, the data says otherwise and so do the experts. But we can still hope.

 

[MisterPenguin]

These aren’t really myths or anti-vaxxer talking points, herd immunity is a scientific reality. Even without a vaccine we’d eventually develop a natural herd immunity. That doesn’t mean a disease is eliminated, it just means it’s manageable.

That said it makes no sense to have tens of millions needlessly die in the process when vaccines can achieve immunity quicker and without the deaths.

I’m 100% pro vax, have had mine since April, but the anti-vaxxers will eventually develop natural immunity, get vaxxed, or die… that’s their 3 choices. No matter what they choose to do cases will drop as there’s fewer and fewer viable hosts. We are seeing this in Florida right now.

As you said the real risk is mutations because that restarts the whole cycle over at square one… which is where the speed of vaccines becomes as important as preventing death.

You can be pro-vaxx and still buy into the unscientific claims of anti-vaxxers. Which you have. If you want to truly be pro-vax, you need to make sure what you say has a scientific basis and isn't easily disproved by a few counter example.

Sadly herd immunity isn’t an exact science so we can both find dozens of opposing views to support both are claims.

This is the one I read months ago that alway pops into my head when I hear herd immunity, probably because it reinforced my pre-existing beliefs about herd immunity. The problem with so much instant (and often conflicting) data is it’s easy to find one that says what we want it too.

Herd Immunity: Will We Ever Get There?

Yale Medicine experts discuss the hurdles to reaching herd immunity for COVID-19.

www.yalemedicine.org

The information isn't conflicting if you stick to sources that reflect the consensus of scientific medicine, like the CDC.

As I posted above, herd immunity did not work for bubonic plague, polio, small pox, or measles. Those diseases didn't become mild and we didn't wind up with herd immunity from them except through vaccines.

And the flu keeps going around and occasionally mutating into something more dangerous as it did with the Spanish Flu and the Swine Flu.

And COVID is part of the Sars family of viruses which can and has suddenly mutated into something more contagious and deadly.

Anything else is the talking points of anti-vaxxers. Don't be lulled into "an opposing point of view." That is not how science works. An alternative "point of view" in science needs actual science done to show it's correct.

 

[lazyboy97o]

These aren’t really myths or anti-vaxxer talking points, herd immunity is a scientific reality. Even without a vaccine we’d eventually develop a natural herd immunity. That doesn’t mean a disease is eliminated, it just means it’s manageable.

Then how come we never developed a natural herd immunity to incredibly contagious measles?

 

[Andrew C]

You can be pro-vaxx and still buy into the unscientific claims of anti-vaxxers. Which you have. If you want to truly be pro-vax, you need to make sure what you say has a scientific basis and isn't easily disproved by a few counter example.

If you want to be one of us, you must not question anything. Geez. We need to pull back a bit. Everyone is still learning about this virus. Including experts. Here is some basic info from the Mayo Clinic. They call out reinfection as a concern for achieving herd immunity through natural infection. Bottom line, it will be hard to achieve, even with vaccines.

Herd immunity and COVID-19: What you need to know

To protect groups of people over time, it helps to know what level of recovery or vaccination in a population makes it hard for a germ to spread.

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[disneygeek90]

My brother tested positive on Thursday. He took a test because his throat felt “a little weird,” and we had plans last weekend.

The only other day that he felt very minor cold symptoms was Friday. Saturday and Sunday he was back to his normal self making huge breakfasts, and last night he was drinking whiskey. Never lost taste or smell.

While he is a fit 28 year old, I have no doubt that he would have been feeling a lot worse had he not been vaccinated.