Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Which is a total of one more than they have now. It's a travesty that they had the 50th anniversary, complete with wall to wall people in the shops, and soon for fireworks, but they were "unable" to have a parade. And you are not allowed a photo with Mickey.
Wall to wall guests buying merchandise is money to Mickey's ears. A parade where guests stand or sit for hours to secure their viewing spot does not have guests spending all their vacation cash. A member posted recently in the 50th forum that lots of WDW hotel rooms available in the future. Make the money now before the slowdown in business.
 
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danlb_2000

Premium Member
I saw they added lightning lane signs to some of the character meet and greet locations so maybe they come back soon or they may be just looking to rid the parks of the name fast pass so replaced the signs but aren’t planning to use them anytime soon. I had also read a rumor that they are waiting for all CMs to be fully vaccinated which is still a few weeks away. I believe the original announcement when they reached an agreement with the unions had a date of 10/22. Who knows if that’s true, but my guess is they won’t leave the potential for lightning lane profits on the table too long.

Ive got nothing on parades. I think the comments about parades costing money has to be the main driver. I agree it cannot be covid related at this point.

Could also be due to staffing limitations. Probably takes fewer CM's to run the cavalcades and you can also have individual CM's to multiple cavalcades.
 
Yes prior infection would do the same thing.

This is a total guess on my part but I think the current metric is antibodies because that is all the data we have to go on right now. T-Cell data would probably take years to gather (in order to get the evidence needed to say that T-Cells do indeed remember how to fight COVID).
Are you saying if you got covid earlier, you have protection going forward? If that is the case, that would be great.
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
At Epcot there are character pop ups which are socially distanced and you can certainly take a photo with a character. I never saw Mickey but I saw most of the princesses around.
I'm aware. But taking a socially distanced selfie with a character off in the background isn't the same as taking a photo with the character.
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
Wall to wall guests buying merchandise is money to Mickey's ears. A parade where guests stand or sit for hours to secure their viewing spot does not have guests spending all their vacation cash. A member posted recently in the 50th forum that lots of WDW hotel rooms available in the future. Make the money now before the slowdown in business.
You don't need a business degree to understand why they are doing what they are. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of it.
 

skiir97

Well-Known Member
Are you saying if you got covid earlier, you have protection going forward? If that is the case, that would be great.

This isn't 100% scientifically correct but take a look at this: https://m.xkcd.com/2425/

The vaccine basically trains the immune system to recognize the virus and fight it so when the real thing (Death Star in the comic above) shows up, the immune system is like "hey I know how to fight this".

Without the vaccine, your immune system has to figure out how to fight the virus as the virus is attacking your body. This is why unvaccinated people generally have worse symptoms than vaccinated, and could end up in the ICU or dying (their immune system wasn't able to figure out how to fight the virus).

In the event that an unvaccinated person recovers, their immune system successfully fought off the virus and they should now have antibodies.

Though I fee like I should be clear: Just because getting the virus naturally should end up with you getting antibodies....this isn't a reason not to get vaccinated since you would have a much greater chance of having complications (aka ending up in the hospital).
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
This isn't 100% scientifically correct but take a look at this: https://m.xkcd.com/2425/

The vaccine basically trains the immune system to recognize the virus and fight it so when the real thing (Death Star in the comic above) shows up, the immune system is like "hey I know how to fight this".

Without the vaccine, your immune system has to figure out how to fight the virus as the virus is attacking your body. This is why unvaccinated people generally have worse symptoms than vaccinated, and could end up in the ICU or dying (their immune system wasn't able to figure out how to fight the virus).

In the event that an unvaccinated person recovers, their immune system successfully fought off the virus and they should now have antibodies.

Though I fee like I should be clear: Just because getting the virus naturally should end up with you getting antibodies....this isn't a reason not to get vaccinated since you would have a much greater chance of having complications (aka ending up in the hospital).
Here's a military analogy, the hunt for Osama bin Ladin. For years, we kind of knew his general vicinity, but couldn't identify precisely where. So, we had two options. Carpet-bomb the entire region and deal with all the collateral fall-out, or carefully gather intelligence, select and train an elite team of operatives and launch a precision strike that results in bin Ladin having a bullet go through his skull, but spares almost everyone else in the immediate area.

Carpet-bombing is essentially the inital immune response to a virus your body has never encountered before. This isn't a bad defense against bacteria, which behave more like a large, densely packed swarming army, but for smaller, more elusive targets like viruses, it isn't very effective and can cause severe damage to the body. Most of the symptoms and consequences of an infection aren't directly related to tissue injury caused by the infecting organism (some is, though), but by the out-of-control immune response trying to keep the virus or bacteria at bay. Only after the immune system has successfully selected for a population of T and B cells that can specifically identify and target that particular pathogen does the initial carpet-bombing become more focused and directed. It generally happens quicker in younger people because they have a larger population of stem cells to recruit.

Vaccines essentially recruit and train that elite strike force without going through the carpet bombing. But, even the best elite teams eventually start to age and lose their edge. Team anti-measles seems to be one of the strongest and most enduring, but others, like team anti-pertussis, anti-tetanus (which actually tragets a bacterial toxin, not the bacteria itself) and anti-mumps tend to suffer more attrition over time. Hence, the need for boosters with some diseases.

COVID and its vaccines are still too new to really know how long the immunity endures.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Here's a military analogy, the hunt for Osama bin Ladin. For years, we kind of knew his general vicinity, but couldn't identify precisely where. So, we had two options. Carpet-bomb the entire region and deal with all the collateral fall-out, or carefully gather intelligence, select and train an elite team of operatives and launch a precision strike that results in bin Ladin having a bullet go through his skull, but spares almost everyone else in the immediate area.

Carpet-bombing is essentially the inital immune response to a virus your body has never encountered before. This isn't a bad defense against bacteria, which behave more like a large, densely packed swarming army, but for smaller, more elusive targets like viruses, it isn't very effective and can cause severe damage to the body. Most of the symptoms and consequences of an infection aren't directly related to tissue injury caused by the infecting organism (some is, though), but by the out-of-control immune response trying to keep the virus or bacteria at bay. Only after the immune system has successfully selected for a population of T and B cells that can specifically identify and target that particular pathogen does the initial carpet-bombing become more focused and directed. It generally happens quicker in younger people because they have a larger population of stem cells to recruit.

Vaccines essentially recruit and train that elite strike force without going through the carpet bombing. But, even the best elite teams eventually start to age and lose their edge. Team anti-measles seems to be one of the strongest and most enduring, but others, like team anti-pertussis, anti-tetanus (which actually tragets a bacterial toxin, not the bacteria itself) and anti-mumps tend to suffer more attrition over time. Hence, the need for boosters with some diseases.

COVID and its vaccines are still too new to really know how long the immunity endures.
To follow up on the Bin Laden analogy, we should have alloted the requested forces at the time we were tracking him in Tora Bora and not allowed him the opportunity to escape into Pakistan. This would have resulted in no need for intervention in Pakistan.

On still "too new", did Pfizer not track the immunity longevity of the initial trial participants?I'd they had, we would have known about this longevity issue about 1-2 months ago and allow us to plan accordingly. My clock runs out on 11/1.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
To follow up on the Bin Laden analogy, we should have alloted the requested forces at the time we were tracking him in Tora Bora and not allowed him the opportunity to escape into Pakistan. This would have resulted in no need for intervention in Pakistan.

On still "too new", did Pfizer not track the immunity longevity of the initial trial participants?I'd they had, we would have known about this longevity issue about 1-2 months ago and allow us to plan accordingly. My clock runs out on 11/1.
That's not how the immune system works, hence my analogy of the way things actually happened, not the way we would have liked in hind-sight.

The efficacy of most vaccines is usually measured in years. It would have been nice to have a low-brewing novel virus that we could afford to wait and see how long the vaccine effect endured, but we don't have that luxury when thousands are dying daily of that disease. And the long-term endurance of a vaccine is not something that is typically studied beyond a few months for any disease before the vaccine goes to market. We learn this information with post-marketing analysis.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Because all those that got the Pfizer shots at the initial mass vaccination stage are now compromised.

So again, effective for only 6-7 months.
But perfectly safe :)

I don’t know if you saw the news, but the FDA authorized boosters for 65+ and high risk people who were all in that initial stage so 15 mins later and they are no longer “compromised”. It’s like people don’t realize they got vaccines as kids that had multiple doses in some cases spaced years apart. It’s not a big deal….unless your agenda is to downplay the vaccines…then it’s your last hope since we are all in agreement now the vaccines are perfectly safe so that angle of attack is dead.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
To follow up on the Bin Laden analogy, we should have alloted the requested forces at the time we were tracking him in Tora Bora and not allowed him the opportunity to escape into Pakistan. This would have resulted in no need for intervention in Pakistan.

On still "too new", did Pfizer not track the immunity longevity of the initial trial participants?I'd they had, we would have known about this longevity issue about 1-2 months ago and allow us to plan accordingly. My clock runs out on 11/1.
Pfizer is still tracking the initial trial participants but they also started a new trial on the impact of 3rd shots using some of the same participants. Pfizer did raise the issue of boosters months ago and they did begin to compile the data that they presented to the FDA a month ago that resulted in approval of the boosters for high risk people. So far the data Theu presented wasn’t compelling enough to result in approval of a 3rd dose for everyone, but they are continuing the trial on shot 3 and when they have enough data I’m sure they will present it and the FDA will decide.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
You do understand the third shot was counted as a first shot until last week? I had half a dozen notices to come back for my second after getting the third. You put way too much faith in the reported numbers, it is the government doing this and when have you ever known them to be accurate. Always revisions and corrections then a whole new system is installed and none of it means anything.
Stop with the micro examination and just see the trends over a few weeks.
No it wasn't. They've listed it as "additional dose" on the weekly state report since the 9/3 report. I've been pointing out the apparent missed second doses for months. The numbers are consistent and have been since months before the booster was recommended/authorized.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
No it wasn't. They've listed it as "additional dose" on the weekly state report since the 9/3 report. I've been pointing out the apparent missed second doses for months. The numbers are consistent and have been since months before the booster was recommended/authorized.
Not sure about FL but there has been an issue for months around me with 1st vs 2nd dose reporting. They realized it was a problem when the percent of 65+ with 1 dose exceeded 100%. The problem was that people didn’t always go back to the same location for dose 2. This was especially true in the beginning when everyone was scrambling for shots. Some people drove an hour or more to get their first appointment but then got shot 2 somewhere closer to home. The pharmacies and medical centers didn’t do a good job splitting out shot 1 vs shot 2 so some shot 2s got counted as a second shot 1. So the number of people with 1 shot is overstated and the number fully vaccinated is overstated. That’s why PA shows 83.7% of eligible people with 1 shot but 66.8% fully vaccinated. We also show 99.9% of 65+ with at least 1 shot and only 87.9% fully vaccinated and that’s obviously not accurate. That 17% gap isn’t real and doesn’t represent people who skipped shot 2. It’s bad numbers and I don’t know if there is any way to fix it.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Not sure about FL but there has been an issue for months around me with 1st vs 2nd dose reporting. They realized it was a problem when the percent of 65+ with 1 dose exceeded 100%. The problem was that people didn’t always go back to the same location for dose 2. This was especially true in the beginning when everyone was scrambling for shots. Some people drove an hour or more to get their first appointment but then got shot 2 somewhere closer to home. The pharmacies and medical centers didn’t do a good job splitting out shot 1 vs shot 2 so some shot 2s got counted as a second shot 1. So the number of people with 1 shot is overstated and the number fully vaccinated is overstated. That’s why PA shows 83.7% of eligible people with 1 shot but 66.8% fully vaccinated. We also show 99.9% of 65+ with at least 1 shot and only 87.9% fully vaccinated and that’s obviously not accurate. That 17% gap isn’t real and doesn’t represent people who skipped shot 2. It’s bad numbers and I don’t know if there is any way to fix it.
Hopefully the same is the case in FL with bad data because the official report shows 13,621,499 residents with at least one shot and 11,370,030 with a complete series. Using the official population of 21,975,117. That's 62% of the population with at least one shot and 51.7% with a complete series. My estimate looking at the reports over the weeks is that around 4.5% more should have had the second shot by this poin. Hopefully it is an error in reporting and most of them have.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I never said vaccinated people were bad. You're trying to shift this to meet your needs, the original question post was:
"How do you know someone’s an anti-vaxxer?
Don’t worry, they’ll tell you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again."

And I said the same goes for vaxxers. Show me where I said they were bad?
I would argue that way too many people who are vaccinated are not doing enough to make that known. 76% of eligible people 12+ have gotten at least 1 dose so only 24% haven‘t gone. No way 76% of people are actively supporting the vaccination effort. When we hear the arguments a lot of places there is a perception that the pro/anti groups are split something like 50/50. The reality is the vast majority of people have accepted the vaccines and have gone in to take it. I think for some communities it would help those who are reluctant if their peers who are fully vaccinated talked about it more. Some big name NBA players have recently come out and talked about it. That helps. For the politics crowd it’s a shame some of the talking heads who push resistance to the vaccine don’t talk about the fact that they are fully vaccinated themselves.
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
Between you and another, I seriously wonder why the heck you are even here. Seriously. This isn't a game. This isn't a joke. Your comments do nothing at all to help the situation and it gets quite tiresome for those of us who actually are carrying the burden for people who don't bother to vaccinate. I just had a long conversation with an immunologist today. They are fed up with this kind of crap. We'd be way better off if people stopped putting doubts out there. But yes, social media and youtube are where people should go for info. Not real medical people. Last I checked it's safe for long term. Effective is still very strong and if people would shut up and vaccinate we'd be worlds better off, but yes, make short remarks to show how stupid vaccines are or whatever. Ugh, so tired of this.
Maybe people are just sick of being told many different things by scientists and governments and then changed and backtracked on. Yes, many of the frustrated understand much of the science isn’t exact and things do change…but be very up front at the beginning and don’t blow sunshine up everyone’s skirt. For me frustration comes from the message, not the facts. I was fully vaccinated back at the end of March, and was just yesterday approved for my booster. I didn’t run out and scheme my way to a third dose. I did what I was supposed to and consulted my physician. For those of us that do indeed play by the rules of vaccine and mask recommendations this is also maddening to see people getting an unauthorized third dose.

I am fully aware of some of the whacky anti-vax behavior and excuses…non of which is at all shocking to me. I don’t feel that being vaccinated is in any way burdening me with the unvaccinated. I do struggle with any type National or even state mandates…I feel those are better handled by people on the ground level at the county level.

So as someone who is clearly not an anti-vaxer, I’m am sick of some of the zealot-like behavior being exhibited from what I see as the opposite side of the strong anti-vax nuts. Here is an example…now I have to edit this a bit because I went to put a link to a Slate article from a couple of days ago, but it no longer exists and has been replaced with a story about a person who’s pandemic puppy is causing them anxiety. I’ll post a pic of the link itself below, but it was about parents worried their son asking a girl to a dance. They thought the parents might be conservative Christians and therefore might be anti-vax and who knew what the son might bring home from her. I mean this is insanity, just as much so as the other end of whacked.
9161AFC8-3492-4AFF-801F-EF76023FC889.jpeg


Crazy behavior and misinformation is not exclusive to the anti-vax people. Just take the physician that flat out lied about ivermectin overdose patients flooding Oklahoma emergency departments.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
On still "too new", did Pfizer not track the immunity longevity of the initial trial participants?I'd they had, we would have known about this longevity issue about 1-2 months ago and allow us to plan accordingly. My clock runs out on 11/1.

The ‘issue’ is not longevity against Alpha. It’s still quite effective over a longer period of time. It’s been Delta.

I’m not sure why people still don’t understand that the variant changed the equation.
 
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