Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

All true except for the smaller viral load, info taken from here:

“Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people.”

How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

Emerging data suggest that Delta could spread more readily than other coronavirus variants among people vaccinated against COVID-19. But key questions remain.

www.nature.com

The amount of people and the window in which they carry will be much smaller but so far it looks like the amount of the virus carried is the same in the two, when a breakthrough occurs. Something for people to think about if there are worries of spreading it to others in close proximity.

Once a breakthrough infection occurs it is possible to spread Covid. That is true. That is why the current guidelines are for fully vaccinated people to still wear masks indoors and in public in any area where community spread is not low. The higher the community spread, the higher the chance of a breakthrough infection.

Your opinion that vaccinated people are being more cavalier and less careful is just that….an opinion. I see no evidence of that where I am. If anything the majority of people I know who are still wearing masks, getting mostly takeout and avoiding large crowds are also fully vaccinated. The “covid is no big deal crowd” tends to skew more towards unvaccinated. Just my opinion based on casual observation.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

This actually happened at my hotel on Saturday, guy jumps into the elevator with no mask and quickly proclaims that no one should worry because he’s had his 2 shots of Pfizer.

Yes, this had happened multiple times on my travels as well. Elevators, trains, etc.

Either one they should drop the indoor masks.

I disagree. Masks should be required at crowded indoor places.

The vaccinated is going to have a smaller viral load.

I though the the studies showed that vaccinated had the same viral load?

 

[GoofGoof]

The 30% is coming from the 41 fully vaccinated out of 191 deaths OC reported last week and estimating the fully vaccinated population.

Effectiveness is measured against whatever the current conditions are. If everybody was vaccinated, there would be fewer infections and fewer breakthrough infections/deaths but the effectiveness would still calculate to be the a same.

How much lower it would be I have no idea but it doesn't appear that it would be nearly zero.

That’s one week in one county. Not a good basis to say 30% of deaths are in fully vaccinated people. In my county we had a dozen deaths last week and they were 100% in unvaccinated. I wouldn’t say that‘s evidence the vaccines are 100% effective in preventing death. 94% of all reported positive cases were in unvaccinated too. You have to look at the actual data for longer terms to get a better picture.

 

[DisneyCane]

That’s one week in one county. Not a good basis to say 30% of deaths are in fully vaccinated people. In my county we had a dozen deaths last week and they were 100% in unvaccinated. I wouldn’t say that‘s evidence the vaccines are 100% effective in preventing death. 94% of all reported positive cases were in unvaccinated too. You have to look at the actual data for longer terms to get a better picture.

Agreed but my estimate jibes with the study of Pfizer that showed 77% effective vs. hospitalizations after 4 months.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I mentioned to my unvaccinated coworker today that I got the flu shot yesterday. Her response was "I didnt think you will need the flu shot if you have the covid one."

 

[Polkadotdress]

Your opinion that vaccinated people are being more cavalier and less careful is just that….an opinion. I see no evidence of that where I am. If anything the majority of people I know who are still wearing masks, getting mostly takeout and avoiding large crowds are also fully vaccinated. The “covid is no big deal crowd” tends to skew more towards unvaccinated. Just my opinion based on casual observation.

Anecdotal example...but the gym I attend is located in an Advent Health Hospital. Masks were required at the gym while working out, until last week. There is literally NO ONE wearing a mask inside the gym, and they are all puffing/panting away. Except for me. I am the solo mask wearer at this time.

 

[GoofGoof]

Agreed but my estimate jibes with the study of Pfizer that showed 77% effective vs. hospitalizations after 4 months.

Not everyone who is hospitalized dies

 

[GoofGoof]

Anecdotal example...but the gym I attend is located in an Advent Health Hospital. Masks were required at the gym while working out, until last week. There is literally NO ONE wearing a mask inside the gym, and they are all puffing/panting away. Except for me. I am the solo mask wearer at this time.

That could be just the difference in states. Some stores around here haven’t brought back required masks but I’d say its about 70/30 masked.

 

[Nubs70]

Anecdotal example...but the gym I attend is located in an Advent Health Hospital. Masks were required at the gym while working out, until last week. There is literally NO ONE wearing a mask inside the gym, and they are all puffing/panting away. Except for me. I am the solo mask wearer at this time.

If you are the only one masking, why are you putting yourself into a dangerous situation?

 

[GoofGoof]

I though the the studies showed that vaccinated had the same viral load?

They can have a high enough viral load to be contagious, but it does not last as long. So a vaccinated person is much less likely to be infected than an unvaccinated person and if they do get infected and the viral load is high enough to be contagious they are contagious for a shorter period of time.

 

[Polkadotdress]

If you are the only one masking, why are you putting yourself into a dangerous situation?

I distance myself from them. And, its important for me to work out. And haven't many on here said "We will need to learn to live with Covid"??? So, I'm doing my best.

I think it 's short-sighted of them to all drop their masks while indoors though.

 

[Polkadotdress]

That could be just the difference in states. Some stores around here haven’t brought back required masks but I’d say its about 70/30 masked.

In Central FL the masking in store is a bit more prevalent, but there are always some unmasked. Was up in northern FL last week, and you'd think the pandemic's over, given the fact that there are very few masks being worn anywhere inside. Again, except for me.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

They can have a high enough viral load to be contagious, but it does not last as long. So a vaccinated person is much less likely to be infected than an unvaccinated person and if they do get infected and the viral load is high enough to be contagious they are contagious for a shorter period of time.

The length of time that it lasts was not the part I quoted.

“A new study found that people vaccinated against coronavirus who have also contracted the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 could have similar peak levels of the virus as people who have not had a vaccination” - medical news today

 

[Lilofan]

In Central FL the masking in store is a bit more prevalent, but there are always some unmasked. Was up in northern FL last week, and you'd think the pandemic's over, given the fact that there are very few masks being worn anywhere inside. Again, except for me.

What you said is accurate . Northern FL especially by the FL/AL border is a whole different mindset but friendlier faces and tasty barbeque / seafood.

 

[mmascari]

All true except for the smaller viral load, info taken from here:

“Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people.”

How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

Emerging data suggest that Delta could spread more readily than other coronavirus variants among people vaccinated against COVID-19. But key questions remain.

www.nature.com

The amount of people and the window in which they carry will be much smaller but so far it looks like the amount of the virus carried is the same in the two, when a breakthrough occurs. Something for people to think about if there are worries of spreading it to others in close proximity.

I though the the studies showed that vaccinated had the same viral load?

Clearly, I choose a poor stat, or haven't kept up enough. The point still stands, that a vaccinated person is way less likely to pass it along.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

In studies conducted before the emergence of the Delta variant, data from multiple studies in different countries suggested that people vaccinated with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines who develop COVID-19 generally have a lower viral load than unvaccinated people.(157, 165-169) This observation may indicate reduced transmissibility, as viral load has been identified as a key driver of transmission.(170) Studies from multiple countries found significantly reduced likelihood of transmission to household contacts from people infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were previously vaccinated for COVID-19.(171-176) For the Delta variant, early data indicate vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with Delta have similar levels of viral RNA and culturable virus detected, indicating that some vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 may be able to transmit the virus to others.(163, 164, 177-180) However, other studies have shown a more rapid decline in viral RNA and culturable virus in fully vaccinated people (96, 177, 180-182). One study observed that Delta infection in fully vaccinated persons was associated with significantly less transmission to contacts than persons who were unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.(181)

Together, these studies suggest that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta have potential to be less infectious than infected unvaccinated people. However, more data are needed to understand how viral shedding and transmission from fully vaccinated persons are affected by SARS-CoV-2 variants, time since vaccination, and other factors, particularly as transmission dynamics may vary based on the extent of exposure to the infected vaccinated person and the setting in which the exposure occurs. Additional data collection and studies are underway to understand the extent and duration of transmissibility of Delta variant SARS-CoV-2 in the United States and other countries.

Bolding all mine to call out those points.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Literally. If you don't even understand the basics of science, how does one expect themselves to accurately "research" a novel virus and question people that have decades studied in the field?

Answer: they don't.

On the Disneyland thread, one poster goes on and on about how parents should "do their own research" for their kids, yet admits that he had "never heard of RNA" before the vaccines came out. I might suggest starting that "research" in a high school level biology text.

 

[Heelz2315]

I disagree. Masks should be required at crowded indoor places.

If the virus prevalence is low (signaled by a low or <5 or 6% positivity rate) I think you'd be OK with removing them. Disney would be ok "suggesting" them like other theme parks but requiring them in indoor spaces in a place where virus spread is that low I would think is a bit much. It also goes against the CDC guidelines of wearing masks indoors where "prevalence or virus spread is high".

It wouldn't be high, therefore they should/could drop them.

 

[disneygeek90]

If the virus prevalence is low (signaled by a low or <5 or 6% positivity rate) I think you'd be OK with removing them. Disney would be ok "suggesting" them like other theme parks but requiring them in indoor spaces in a place where virus spread is that low I would think is a bit much. It also goes against the CDC guidelines of wearing masks indoors where "prevalence or virus spread is high".

It wouldn't be high, therefore they should/could drop them.

I still hold the stance that it's irresponsible to lift the masks at Disney while kids are still unvaccinated. Especially with kids back in school, the last thing we need is to have kids going to Disney, picking something up, and then spreading it back to their school again the next week. We are finally starting to see numbers that aren't just downright disgusting. Let's keep the pressure on it.

 

[Heelz2315]

I still hold the stance that it's irresponsible to lift the masks at Disney while kids are still unvaccinated. Especially with kids back in school, the last thing we need is to have kids going to Disney, picking something up, and then spreading it back to their school again the next week. We are finally starting to see numbers that aren't just downright disgusting. Let's keep the pressure on it.

That part I agree with. The vaccines for 5-11 should be available by Halloween. By late winter/early Spring at the latest we should have enough people vaccinated, including children or at least have access to the vaccine to drive the numbers low. We'll also have at least one drug/pill to treat covid once you're diagnosed. At that point all precautions should be lifted.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Why are people so against masks? It’s really baffling to me. Masks and distancing help keep people alive = masks and distancing are a good thing!