Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[StarWarsGirl]

If I was going to a concert I would avoid at all costs my hands touching my face or hair due to the fact that the concert bathrooms are used by thousands and literally hardly cleaned at all and viruses/ germs linger on surfaces.

Hand sanitizer. It's your friend.

 

[GoofGoof]

I doubt they would want to spend the money to deal with a vaccinated or negative test to enter rule unless it was government mandated. Easier to just keep the indoor mask requirements which people seem to be dealing with ok.

That’s why I said watch what happens in CA. If the state or county mandates it and if Disney has to implement it at DLR then a lot of the upfront cost to setup a system would be in place and we know they love to clone stuff from CA to FL.

I also think if they wait until 2022 the number of people unvaccinated will be a whole lot smaller. 76.5% of adults have at least 1 shot right now. Could be that not many people are looking for the testing exception. Of course maybe that means cases are way, way down and there’s less need. I’m always the optimist with that

 

[Heppenheimer]

Here is the story -

"President Joe Biden will ease foreign travel restrictions into the U.S. beginning in November, when his administration will require all foreign nationals flying into the country to be fully vaccinated.

All foreign travelers flying to the U.S. will need to demonstrate proof of vaccination before boarding, as well as proof of a negative COVID-19 test taken within three days of flight, said White House COVID-19 coordinator Jeff Zients, who announced the new policy on Monday. Biden will also tighten testing rules for unvaccinated American citizens, who will need to be tested within a day before returning to the U.S., as well as after they arrive home.

Fully vaccinated passengers will not be required to quarantine, Zients said.

The new policy replaces a patchwork of travel restrictions first instituted by President Donald Trump last year and tightened by Biden earlier this year that restrict travel by non-citizens who have in the prior 14 days been in the United Kingdom, European Union, China, India, Iran, Republic of Ireland, Brazil and South Africa.

“This is based on individuals rather than a country based approach, so it’s a stronger system,” Zients said.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will also require airlines to collect contact information from international travelers to facilitate contact tracing, Zients said.

It was not immediately clear which vaccines would be acceptable under the U.S.-system and whether those unapproved in the U.S. could be used. Zients said that decision would be up to the CDC.

The new policy will take effect in “early November,” Zients said, to allow airlines and travel partners time to prepare to implement the new protocols."

US easing virus restrictions for foreign flights to America

In a major easing of pandemic travel restrictions, the U.S. will allow foreigners to fly into the country this fall if they have vaccination proof and a negative COVID-19 test.

apnews.com

For our Canadians in the group... this is basically what you already need to do to enter the US by flight anyway, correct?

It seems that the only thing that has changed is who can get in, not how they get in.

Still waiting to here about the border situation.

 

[DisneyCane]

I did some analysis off of Friday's report from FL. I looked at new reported deaths from the prior week by age. Here it is:

The 65+ age group is at 88% with at least one shot which is the highest of any age group. As of the last daily report, 65+ made up 82% of deaths. The fact that it is now 63% shows that the vaccines do have an effect on preventing deaths. However, when the vaccination campaign first began, it looked like they were nearly 100% effective at preventing death. This data says otherwise.

When I looked at the Orange County data a week or two ago for deaths, I roughly calculated that the vaccines are 73% effective in preventing death. A few pages back somebody posted a study that Pfizer was 77% effective in preventing hospitalization after 4 months. I think we can conclude that the real world effectiveness against severe illness and death is something in the mid to upper 70% range.

This is obviously a great thing and very highly effective. However, saying things like nearly all deaths that have occurred since vaccines were available were preventable are not true.

Also, I don't think the breakthrough death data that the CDC reports is possibly accurate. As of last Friday, they reported 2,524 breakthrough deaths. Orange County FL reported 41 deaths in fully vaccinated people in one week. I think it is statistically improbable that one week in Orange County, FL could be 1.6% of the nationwide total of breakthrough deaths over the course of several months.

Hopefully the slightly higher vaccination rates in the northeast keep the hospitalizations and deaths in check during the likely winter surge in cases.

 

[cjack300zx]

One of the employees at work made this statement today “ none of the vaccines have been approved they have only been approved for emergency use only AND the only vaccine that has been approved has not been released to the public yet “!!!! She is the biggest republican in the whole store and believes the whole pandemic is a hoax.

 

[disneygeek90]

One of the employees at work made this statement today “ none of the vaccines have been approved they have only been approved for emergency use only AND the only vaccine that has been approved has not been released to the public yet “!!!! She is the biggest republican in the whole store and believes the whole pandemic is a hoax.

I mentioned to my unvaccinated coworker today that I got the flu shot yesterday. Her response was "I didnt think you will need the flu shot if you have the covid one." When I said they were for two different things she said "well yeah but i thought maybe it will protect somehow." It was an IM conversation and that is direct quotes.

This is also one that said the vaccines were developed too soon and she wanted to see more research. I'm not sure what sort of scientific "research" she's looking for if this is what she assumes. Yikes.

 

[Nubs70]

One of the employees at work made this statement today “ none of the vaccines have been approved they have only been approved for emergency use only AND the only vaccine that has been approved has not been released to the public yet “!!!! She is the biggest republican in the whole store and believes the whole pandemic is a hoax.

In the case of vaccination rates in Detroit, a large population of unvaccinated are those not in the republican demographic. Unvaccinated status crosses all political demographics.

 

[Nubs70]

I mentioned to my unvaccinated coworker today that I got the flu shot yesterday. Her response was "I didnt think you will need the flu shot if you have the covid one." When I said they were for two different things she said "well yeah but i thought maybe it will protect somehow." It was an IM conversation and that is direct quotes.

This is also one that said the vaccines were developed too soon and she wanted to see more research. I'm not sure what sort of scientific "research" she's looking for if this is what she assumes. Yikes.

Did you politely point out the differences or did you point out how she was a misinformed idiot, knuckle dragging Trumpian that needs to be segregated from society?

 

[GoofGoof]

I did some analysis off of Friday's report from FL. I looked at new reported deaths from the prior week by age. Here it is:
View attachment 588189
The 65+ age group is at 88% with at least one shot which is the highest of any age group. As of the last daily report, 65+ made up 82% of deaths. The fact that it is now 63% shows that the vaccines do have an effect on preventing deaths. However, when the vaccination campaign first began, it looked like they were nearly 100% effective at preventing death. This data says otherwise.

When I looked at the Orange County data a week or two ago for deaths, I roughly calculated that the vaccines are 73% effective in preventing death. A few pages back somebody posted a study that Pfizer was 77% effective in preventing hospitalization after 4 months. I think we can conclude that the real world effectiveness against severe illness and death is something in the mid to upper 70% range.

This is obviously a great thing and very highly effective. However, saying things like nearly all deaths that have occurred since vaccines were available were preventable are not true.

Also, I don't think the breakthrough death data that the CDC reports is possibly accurate. As of last Friday, they reported 2,524 breakthrough deaths. Orange County FL reported 41 deaths in fully vaccinated people in one week. I think it is statistically improbable that one week in Orange County, FL could be 1.6% of the nationwide total of breakthrough deaths over the course of several months.

Hopefully the slightly higher vaccination rates in the northeast keep the hospitalizations and deaths in check during the likely winter surge in cases.

Flawed conclusion. First of all we know what percent of total deaths were from breakthrough infections and nearly all deaths were in unvaccinated people. Not sure where you are getting 30% of deaths in fully vaccinated people. Putting that aside, you are also assuming that if everyone was vaccinated we would have the same number of overall and breakthrough infections which definitely would not be the case. There is no way to quantify a number but it’s safe to say the number of overall infections would be much lower (not something that can be disputed) and so if the number of cases overall is way down the number of breakthrough infections would be too. You have to be infected first to die from a breakthrough infection. I’m not saying we would have no deaths from breakthrough infections but it would be a lot lower.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

For our Canadians in the group... this is basically what you already need to do to enter the US by flight anyway, correct?

It seems that the only thing that has changed is who can get in, not how they get in.

Still waiting to here about the border situation.

I believe the vaccine requirement is new. Right now Canadians can fly to the USA with a negative COVID test, no proof of vaccination required.

Which I find odd. Thinking of things like WDW, I'd put a higher priority on tourists being vaccinated over just passing a test. Unvaccinated people visiting crowded tourist destinations pose a greater risk of contracting and spreading COVID compared to those who are vaccinated.

I still don't think tourism is going to improve in any significant way until the testing requirement ends. It's a major hassle and expense that is going to deter most short term visitors.

 

[disneygeek90]

Did you politely point out the differences or did you point out how she was a misinformed idiot, knuckle dragging Trumpian that needs to be segregated from society?

I told her that similar symptoms do not equal the same virus compositions, and linked her to a couple bullet points from the CDC. Not that it will help.

Flu vaccines are not designed to protect against COVID-19. Flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness, hospitalization and death in addition to other important benefits.
Likewise, getting a COVID-19 vaccine is the best protection against COVID-19, but those vaccines are not designed to protect against flu.

Flu and COVID-19 are both contagious respiratory illnesses, but they are caused by different viruses. COVID-19 is caused by infection with a coronavirus (called SARS-CoV-2) and seasonal flu (most often just called “flu”) is caused by infection with one of many influenza viruses that spread annually among people.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I mentioned to my unvaccinated coworker today that I got the flu shot yesterday. Her response was "I didnt think you will need the flu shot if you have the covid one." When I said they were for two different things she said "well yeah but i thought maybe it will protect somehow." It was an IM conversation and that is direct quotes.

This is also one that said the vaccines were developed too soon and she wanted to see more research. I'm not sure what sort of scientific "research" she's looking for if this is what she assumes. Yikes.

And this is the big problem with “Doing your own research.” If you don’t know the very fundamental basics then how could you properly curate information?

 

[Lilofan]

Did you politely point out the differences or did you point out how she was a misinformed idiot, knuckle dragging Trumpian that needs to be segregated from society?

You have an exaggerated imaginative description of the person , that's interesting.

 

[disneygeek90]

And this is the big problem with “Doing your own research.” If you don’t know the very fundamental basics then how could you properly curate information?

Literally. If you don't even understand the basics of science, how does one expect themselves to accurately "research" a novel virus and question people that have decades studied in the field?

Answer: they don't.

 

[EpcoTim]

There's a lot of leeway ground being covered by "just as easily".

The vaccinated is significantly less likely to be infected to begin with. But, if we ignore this and only talk about those who breakthrough.
The vaccinated is going to be contagious for significantly less time. But, if we ignore this and only talk about during that shorter time.
The vaccinated is going to have a smaller viral load. But, if we ignore this and only talk about the most infections vaccinated timeframe.

So, it's just as easy for the vaccinated to spread only in the significantly smaller window and for way less people.

Still, it's correct that especially in areas of high transmission, the vaccinated should be taking the same precautions. That guy should have been wearing a mask. Since, even "less likely" and "less time" doesn't help much when the raw number it is less of is so large that the lower number is also a large value in the absolute.

All true except for the smaller viral load, info taken from here:

“Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people.”

How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

Emerging data suggest that Delta could spread more readily than other coronavirus variants among people vaccinated against COVID-19. But key questions remain.

www.nature.com

The amount of people and the window in which they carry will be much smaller but so far it looks like the amount of the virus carried is the same in the two, when a breakthrough occurs. Something for people to think about if there are worries of spreading it to others in close proximity.

 

[Lilofan]

I probably could have worded that better but my point was that a vaxxed person could be carrying it and have zero idea because they show no symptoms yet they can spread just as easily. Granted, vaxxed are a lot less likely to carry in the first place but if they are they can still spread, some don’t consider that point though. Personal experience, but I’ve ran into quite a few who think just because they have the shots they are in the clear 100%.

This actually happened at my hotel on Saturday, guy jumps into the elevator with no mask and quickly proclaims that no one should worry because he’s had his 2 shots of Pfizer.

Seems like you are backtracking on your previous comment on vax people being more dangerous. I did not agree with your opinion. Whatever the opinion more of the population needs to be vaccinated by choice or not ( ie risk losing your job, if refusal to be vaccinated in some companies , etc ).

 

[EpcoTim]

Seems like you are backtracking on your previous comment on vax people being more dangerous. I did not agree with your opinion.

I’m not backtracking on anything, I’m saying that the mentality of ‘I’ve got my shots, I’m in the clear’ can be a dangerous one because you can still carry and you are much less likely to know you are carrying, even if your chances are much lower. The possibility is real and it still exists whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[Lilofan]

I’m not backtracking on anything, I’m saying that the mentality of ‘I’ve got my shots, I’m in the clear’ can be a dangerous one because you can still carry and you are much less likely to know you are carrying, even if your chances are much lower. The possibility is real and it still exists whether you want to believe it or not.

Vaxx'd or unVaxx'd you can still spread it just the same. In fact, the Vaxx'd are probably more dangerous because we believe we're already in the clear and far less likely to show any symptoms. You can still spread it to grandma though.

Vaccinated People With Breakthrough Infections Can Spread The Delta Variant, CDC Says

In an outbreak in Provincetown, Mass., three-quarters of cases occurred in fully vaccinated people. The study's findings suggest that vaccinated people infected with delta can transmit the virus.

www.npr.org

"It also found no significant difference in the viral load present in the breakthrough infections occurring in fully vaccinated people and the other cases, suggesting the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with the coronavirus is similar."

And like that guy earlier who blamed the unVaxx'd for his mothers illness, he might want to blame the baby (and consider blaming the Vaxx'd)

"This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC's updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones," (from previous article)

Babies And Toddlers Are Highly Contagious For Covid-19

A new study by Public Health Ontario, finds that infants and toddlers (0-3 years) are less likely to bring SARS-CoV-2 into the home but are more likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 compared with older children (14-17 years).

www.forbes.com

I know people want to push their agendas, but picking and choosing which facts you want to believe and which facts you want to ignore does no one any good. Vaxx'd or unVaxx'd, you have to look at the whole data set or none of it. Spreading non-sense is pointless no matter which side of the VAXX boat you are on.

Yes the possibility exists but your comment of vax people being more dangerous is farther from the truth.

 

[Figgy1]

I mentioned to my unvaccinated coworker today that I got the flu shot yesterday. Her response was "I didnt think you will need the flu shot if you have the covid one." When I said they were for two different things she said "well yeah but i thought maybe it will protect somehow." It was an IM conversation and that is direct quotes.

This is also one that said the vaccines were developed too soon and she wanted to see more research. I'm not sure what sort of scientific "research" she's looking for if this is what she assumes. Yikes.

Bless their heart, anything else I would have to say to that person can't be posted here

 

[DisneyCane]

Flawed conclusion. First of all we know what percent of total deaths were from breakthrough infections and nearly all deaths were in unvaccinated people. Not sure where you are getting 30% of deaths in fully vaccinated people. Putting that aside, you are also assuming that if everyone was vaccinated we would have the same number of overall and breakthrough infections which definitely would not be the case. There is no way to quantify a number but it’s safe to say the number of overall infections would be much lower (not something that can be disputed) and so if the number of cases overall is way down the number of breakthrough infections would be too. You have to be infected first to die from a breakthrough infection. I’m not saying we would have no deaths from breakthrough infections but it would be a lot lower.

The 30% is coming from the 41 fully vaccinated out of 191 deaths OC reported last week and estimating the fully vaccinated population.

Effectiveness is measured against whatever the current conditions are. If everybody was vaccinated, there would be fewer infections and fewer breakthrough infections/deaths but the effectiveness would still calculate to be the a same.

How much lower it would be I have no idea but it doesn't appear that it would be nearly zero.