Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Timmay]

Well said. They tried incentives and they tried reasoning with people...this is the next step for this extremely reluctant 20%. The rest of us are tired and want to get on with our lives. This time, the unvaxxed need to stay home. I applaud all the venues (including some right here in central Florida, like the Dr. Phillips Center) that are moving towards mandatory vaccinations for entrance.

I’m not sure where you are getting that 20% reluctance number. Currently, only 54% percent of people in the US are fully vaccinated and only 63% have received at least one dose. Yes, I fully understand that includes people not eligible. I get it.

Before I begin, I have to put the normal disclaimer out there to minimize the anti-vaccine/hoaxer/let’s do nothing labels. Vaccines work, employers should mandate vaccines, Covid is real. There.

We as a country will be very fortunate to get to an 80% vaccination mark of people currently living in the country. Very, very fortunate…even with all the mandates/testing opt-out/whatever you want to call it. None of the foot stomping, name calling, finger pointing, isolation threats, or anger is going to change that. Anecdotal story coming, so be prepared. Went to SummerFest last night, and there is a vaccine/negative test requirement. They even have testing stations set up at several entrances. All empty. Crowds were much much smaller. This is the largest music festival in the US…but it sure wasn’t like years in the past. Social distancing was a breeze. You know attendance is down when the beer line takes 5 minutes as opposed to the usual 30 minutes. Instead of people being encouraged to vaccinate, people were encouraged not to attend. And vendors are some of the ones suffering. I’d say about a third of the normal vendors were missing. Things like that can’t continue. Oh, for those interested, Lindsey Stirling absolutely nailed it!!

I don’t think the OSHA requirement is going to make a significant improvement in vaccinations. There are going to be a fair share of unintended and unforeseen consequences. Things like this are just going to start happening on a larger scale -

Lewis County Health System to 'pause' maternity services due to staff unwilling to vaccinate

LOWVILLE — The maternity department at the Lewis County Health System is the first casualty of staffing challenges made worse by health care workers prioritizing remaining unvaccinated for COVID-19 over

www.nny360.com

Again, I’m not saying to do nothing. I’m pointing out that those believing mandates and requirements will magically make everything ok are in for some disappointment.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I’m not sure where you are getting that 20% reluctance number. Currently, only 54% percent of people in the US are fully vaccinated and only 63% have received at least one dose. Yes, I fully understand that includes people not eligible. I get it.

Before I begin, I have to put the normal disclaimer out there to minimize the anti-vaccine/hoaxer/let’s do nothing labels. Vaccines work, employers should mandate vaccines, Covid is real. There.

We as a country will be very fortunate to get to an 80% vaccination mark of people currently living in the country. Very, very fortunate…even with all the mandates/testing opt-out/whatever you want to call it. None of the foot stomping, name calling, finger pointing, isolation threats, or anger is going to change that. Anecdotal story coming, so be prepared. Went to SummerFest last night, and there is a vaccine/negative test requirement. They even have testing stations set up at several entrances. All empty. Crowds were much much smaller. This is the largest music festival in the US…but it sure wasn’t like years in the past. Social distancing was a breeze. You know attendance is down when the beer line takes 5 minutes as opposed to the usual 30 minutes. Instead of people being encouraged to vaccinate, people were encouraged not to attend. And vendors are some of the ones suffering. I’d say about a third of the normal vendors were missing. Things like that can’t continue. Oh, for those interested, Lindsey Stirling absolutely nailed it!!

I don’t think the OSHA requirement is going to make a significant improvement in vaccinations. There are going to be a fair share of unintended and unforeseen consequences. Things like this are just going to start happening on a larger scale -

Lewis County Health System to 'pause' maternity services due to staff unwilling to vaccinate

LOWVILLE — The maternity department at the Lewis County Health System is the first casualty of staffing challenges made worse by health care workers prioritizing remaining unvaccinated for COVID-19 over

www.nny360.com

Again, I’m not saying to do nothing. I’m pointing out that those believing mandates and requirements will magically make everything ok are in for some disappointment.

Hopefully by Christmas as enough more people getting vaccinated as 5-11 kids too if there isn't any new strains or variants by then.

 

[LaughingGravy]

A sizable portion of the people who are not vaccinated have not done so because they do not trust the government, and do not want to put something into their bodies that a government they do not trust tells them to.
They view such government actions as authoritarian.
The government responds by enacting authoritarian measures.
This is not the way to win converts.

True. But, every other "nice way" has been tried in pretty much every way possible and reasonable as well as ridiculous re: rewards and lottery prizes.
The only way left after making unvaccinated pay either premiums for healthcare or for all of their treatment (wanna lose your family house and/or car if you are lucky enough to recover?) is to get draconian and deny treatment at all for anyone unvaccinated without a true medical exemption ( perhaps by two doctors) or unless the vaccine is not approved for their age.
Or say only vaccines allowed to the new age groups or those who previously could not have the vaccine due to being sick after such date and the rest of the good vaccines we have go overseas to the rest of the world.
Take it away and they will want it, like a little kid.
You want your freedom of choice? You can have at it.
The rest of us want to get back to normal...and not the "new normal".
It's bad enough we are dealing with the repercussions of 20 years ago today with what the Patriot Act allows, completely ignoring other causes.
Adding this unnecessarily extended pandemic on top of it because of ignorance and egos for all the wrong reasons is ridiculous.

The greatest generation is rolling in their graves.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Next spring perhaps for masks go away for trains, buses, cruises and planes?

I actually do enjoy keeping a distance from folks on public transportation, including the masks. I can make funny faces at people they can't see. Ok, some may be considered risque or rude(wink wink nudge nudge say no more) , lol. Shhh.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Surviving the transition to the fall season

Due to various factors relating to the COVID pandemic in the US the shift to fall operations may be more problematic this year.

blooloop.com

I wonder this fall, as the variant like new strains for the future will could be worse if theme parks could have a hard time to do fall stuff like Halloween. I hope the cases will be low enough by next year as enough people are vaccinated. I want to go back to normal again by next Spring if there was no strains/new variants by then. I don't want new normal forever with masks and social distancing forever in the future..

 

[dovetail65]

I’m not sure where you are getting that 20% reluctance number. Currently, only 54% percent of people in the US are fully vaccinated and only 63% have received at least one dose. Yes, I fully understand that includes people not eligible. I get it.

Before I begin, I have to put the normal disclaimer out there to minimize the anti-vaccine/hoaxer/let’s do nothing labels. Vaccines work, employers should mandate vaccines, Covid is real. There.

We as a country will be very fortunate to get to an 80% vaccination mark of people currently living in the country. Very, very fortunate…even with all the mandates/testing opt-out/whatever you want to call it. None of the foot stomping, name calling, finger pointing, isolation threats, or anger is going to change that. Anecdotal story coming, so be prepared. Went to SummerFest last night, and there is a vaccine/negative test requirement. They even have testing stations set up at several entrances. All empty. Crowds were much much smaller. This is the largest music festival in the US…but it sure wasn’t like years in the past. Social distancing was a breeze. You know attendance is down when the beer line takes 5 minutes as opposed to the usual 30 minutes. Instead of people being encouraged to vaccinate, people were encouraged not to attend. And vendors are some of the ones suffering. I’d say about a third of the normal vendors were missing. Things like that can’t continue. Oh, for those interested, Lindsey Stirling absolutely nailed it!!

I don’t think the OSHA requirement is going to make a significant improvement in vaccinations. There are going to be a fair share of unintended and unforeseen consequences. Things like this are just going to start happening on a larger scale -

Lewis County Health System to 'pause' maternity services due to staff unwilling to vaccinate

LOWVILLE — The maternity department at the Lewis County Health System is the first casualty of staffing challenges made worse by health care workers prioritizing remaining unvaccinated for COVID-19 over

www.nny360.com

Again, I’m not saying to do nothing. I’m pointing out that those believing mandates and requirements will magically make everything ok are in for some disappointment..

It may not magically solve anything, but it's way better than doing what we have been doing. The Biden rules will do SOMETHING. It's actually the only thing we can do.

The Biden plan will help over the the long term more than the short term, but from my perspective it can't hurt.

Mandates and requirement are our only tools, you stated you are not saying do nothing, if not this, then what? What else that we haven't tried already?

 

[Timmay]

It may not magically solve anything, but it's way better than doing what we have been doing. The Biden rules will do SOMETHING. It's actually the only thing we can do.

The Biden plan will help over the the long term more than the short term, but from my perspective it can't hurt.

Mandates and requirement are our only tools, you stated you are not saying do nothing, if not this, then what? What else that we haven't tried already?

How about setting a very clear and definable goal. That’s what I would like to see. Cant win a “war” on anything without one.

But regardless, I never said these things I brought up shouldn’t be done…only to not expect a significant change in the way some are wanting, so I’m not sure what you are trying to get at with your last question.

 

[dovetail65]

Surviving the transition to the fall season

Due to various factors relating to the COVID pandemic in the US the shift to fall operations may be more problematic this year.

blooloop.com

I wonder this fall, as the variant like new strains for the future will could be worse if theme parks could have a hard time to do fall stuff like Halloween. I hope the cases will be low enough by next year as enough people are vaccinated. I want to go back to normal again by next Spring if there was no strains/new variants by then. I don't want new normal forever with masks and social distancing forever in the future..

I 100% agree, but to think it will be this Spring is so optimistic would be by all markers a miracle.

Many famous virologists are saying not until 2023, some even more pessimistic saying 2 or 3 years. The good news is recently some are saying the end of 2021 could be the start to the end of Covid, but that doesn't mean we let our guard down or that 30 days later or no mask on plane come Jan. Still, this is the most optimistic I have found:

"a more realistic epidemiological endpoint might arrive not when herd immunity is achieved but when COVID-19 can be managed as an endemic disease. The biggest overall risk would likely then be the emergence of a significant new variant."

What this really means is the masks and other rules and mandates don't go away at all and that it is not herd immunity but the pandemic turns into an endemic. If we can get to this point we won't have people dying of heart attacks becasue they were turned away from FORTY THREE hospitals because they are filled with Covid patients, 95% that are not vaccinated. This is a good one to read:

When will the COVID-19 pandemic end?

McKinsey’s evolving perspectives on when will the COVID-19 pandemic end in the United States updated to examine how timing will vary around the world.

www.mckinsey.com

I would love it if this Spring it was over! We will get back to normal, but my hopes are by Spring 2023 this is all behind us. I am trying to keep expectations low. Anything before that would be fantastic. Many scientists believe what this one does.

Return to normal life after COVID may not occur until 2023 -French scientist

A return to normal life following the COVID-19 virus outbreak may not occur until 2022 or even 2023, said professor Jean-Francois Delfraissy, who advises the French government.

www.reuters.com

This is so sad and to those thinking Covid is overblown or we do not need rules or vaccinations probably don't live in the states dealing with this(possibly they do not care, who knows). Out sight out of mind I guess:

Alabama man dies of cardiac event after 43 hospitals with full ICUs turned him away

Ray Martin DeMonia died on Sept. 1 in Meridian, Mississippi. His family struggled to find care, saying 43 hospitals had no ICU bed for him.

www.usatoday.com

 

[DisneyFan32]

I 100% agree, but to think it will be this Spring is so optimistic would be by all markers a miracle.

Many famous virologists are saying not until 2023, some even more pessimistic saying 2 or 3 years. The good news is recently some are saying the end of 2021 could be the start to the end of Covid, but that doesn't mean we let our guard down or that 30 days later or no mask on plane come Jan. Still, this is the most optimistic I have found:

"a more realistic epidemiological endpoint might arrive not when herd immunity is achieved but when COVID-19 can be managed as an endemic disease. The biggest overall risk would likely then be the emergence of a significant new variant."

What this really means is the masks and other rules and mandates don't go away at all and that it is not herd immunity but the pandemic turns into an endemic. If we can get to this point we won't have people dying of heart attacks becasue they were turned away from FORTY THREE hospitals because they are filled with Covid patients, 95% that are not vaccinated. This is a good one to read:

When will the COVID-19 pandemic end?

McKinsey’s evolving perspectives on when will the COVID-19 pandemic end in the United States updated to examine how timing will vary around the world.

www.mckinsey.com

I would love it if this Spring it was over! We will get back to normal, but my hopes are by Spring 2023 this is all behind us. I am trying to keep expectations low. Anything before that would be fantastic. Many scientists believe what this one does.

Return to normal life after COVID may not occur until 2023 -French scientist

A return to normal life following the COVID-19 virus outbreak may not occur until 2022 or even 2023, said professor Jean-Francois Delfraissy, who advises the French government.

www.reuters.com

This is so sad and to those thinking Covid is overblown or we do not need rules or vaccinations probably don't live in the states dealing with this(possibly they do not care, who knows). Out sight out of mind I guess:

Alabama man dies of cardiac event after 43 hospitals with full ICUs turned him away

Ray Martin DeMonia died on Sept. 1 in Meridian, Mississippi. His family struggled to find care, saying 43 hospitals had no ICU bed for him.

www.usatoday.com

Hopefully by end of 2021 is beginning of end of COVID-19 pandemic as Spring 2022 may be possible as masks will go away for good ever for trains, buses, planes and cruises. Not 2023 or 2024/2025.....hopefully.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Mandates and requirement are our only tools, you stated you are not saying do nothing, if not this, then what? What else that we haven't tried already?

See post #87,572 above. Then see #87,573, which has helped me keep my sanity.

 

[DCBaker]

"Florida on Saturday reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 9,148 more COVID-19 cases and seven deaths, according to Miami Herald calculations of CDC data.

In all, Florida has recorded at least 3,418,160 confirmed COVID cases and 48,283 deaths.

In the last seven days, on average, the state has added 339 deaths and 15,633 cases to the daily cumulative total, according to Herald calculations of CDC data.

There were 12,222 people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida, according to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services’ Saturday report. This data is reported from 260 Florida hospitals. That is 429 fewer patients than Friday’s report, which also had one more reporting hospital.

COVID-19 patients take up 20.75% of all inpatient beds in the latest report’s hospitals, compared to 21.51% in the previous day’s reporting hospitals.

Of the people hospitalized in Florida, 2,885 people were in intensive care unit beds, a decrease of 57. That represents 43.58% of the state’s ICU hospital beds from 260 hospitals reporting data, compared to 44.48% the previous day."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254166183.html

 

[MisterPenguin]

A sizable portion of the people who are not vaccinated have not done so because they do not trust the government, and do not want to put something into their bodies that a government they do not trust tells them to.
They view such government actions as authoritarian.
The government responds by enacting authoritarian measures.
This is not the way to win converts.

Leaving them alone is absolutely NOT the answer.

Leaving them alone, and they will still mistrust the government. And how do I know this? Because that's the way they are without any mandates. They are like this before mandates and they will be like this after mandates.

Leaving them alone, and they will still believe conspiracy theories. And how do I know this? Because that's the way they are without any mandates. They are like this before mandates and they will be like this after mandates.

Letting folks like these come around to eventually get vaccinated isn't going to work. And how do I know this? Because that's the way they are without any mandates. They are like this before mandates and they will be like this after mandates.

It'd be like making the paying of taxes optional. There'd be a group that won't pay because they don't trust the government and claim it's too authoritarian. And what's the government going to do? Allow them to not pay taxes because it will prove the government is authoritarian?

The government is authoritarian. It's pretty much in the definition of a government that they have *authority* to govern.

 

[dovetail65]

Hopefully by end of 2021 is beginning of end of COVID-19 pandemic as Spring 2022 may be possible as masks will go away for good ever for trains, buses, planes and cruises. Not 2023 or 2024/2025.....hopefully.

Well some people smarter than most of us are saying its possible. The problem is there are as many saying it's further out. Here is to hoping next year Disney is no mask, no worries.

 

[Heelz2315]

Anyone know where I can check the positivity rate each week?

 

[dovetail65]

1. Is your doctor a medical doctor board certified?

2. It's pretty hard to find "another injection" which has the same ingredients as the current vaccine. Which makes this claim awfully suspicious, or, it casts doubt on the competency of that doctor. Get a second opinion.

3. No one since the trials over a year ago has died from a "reaction" (i.e., an allergic reaction to the ingredients in the vaccine). That is why they make you wait 15 minutes to observe you after you get the shot. If you start to have an allergic reaction, they are there with epinephrine (an 'epi pen') to stop the reaction. The very few instances in which that has happened turned out OK.

4. If you're really worried about a reaction, you can get the shot in a hospital so that you can get immediate urgent care.

5. The reaction is nothing compared to being hospitalized or dying from COVID. Where's the fear from a deadly virus? Why isn't that more fearful then a vaccine that no one's dying from?


With regard to your friend who has a specific fear of a temporarily inflamed heart: As mention above, COVID causes inflamed hearts, to. Even permanently damages hearts. Even stops hearts.

Also, the temporarily inflamed heart is usually found in young men. Is your friend a young man?

I was allergic to a vaccine, still had the Covid Vaccine, Yes, I got sick form both Covid shots, so what my kids were all sick with fevers when they were babies with their vaccination's too.

​

Anyone know where I can check the positivity rate each week?

COVID Data Tracker Weekly Review

The week’s key data, narrative interpretations, & visualizations.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Zummi Gummi]

I’m not sure where you are getting that 20% reluctance number. Currently, only 54% percent of people in the US are fully vaccinated and only 63% have received at least one dose. Yes, I fully understand that includes people not eligible. I get it.

Before I begin, I have to put the normal disclaimer out there to minimize the anti-vaccine/hoaxer/let’s do nothing labels. Vaccines work, employers should mandate vaccines, Covid is real. There.

We as a country will be very fortunate to get to an 80% vaccination mark of people currently living in the country. Very, very fortunate…even with all the mandates/testing opt-out/whatever you want to call it. None of the foot stomping, name calling, finger pointing, isolation threats, or anger is going to change that. Anecdotal story coming, so be prepared. Went to SummerFest last night, and there is a vaccine/negative test requirement. They even have testing stations set up at several entrances. All empty. Crowds were much much smaller. This is the largest music festival in the US…but it sure wasn’t like years in the past. Social distancing was a breeze. You know attendance is down when the beer line takes 5 minutes as opposed to the usual 30 minutes. Instead of people being encouraged to vaccinate, people were encouraged not to attend. And vendors are some of the ones suffering. I’d say about a third of the normal vendors were missing. Things like that can’t continue. Oh, for those interested, Lindsey Stirling absolutely nailed it!!

I don’t think the OSHA requirement is going to make a significant improvement in vaccinations. There are going to be a fair share of unintended and unforeseen consequences. Things like this are just going to start happening on a larger scale -

Lewis County Health System to 'pause' maternity services due to staff unwilling to vaccinate

LOWVILLE — The maternity department at the Lewis County Health System is the first casualty of staffing challenges made worse by health care workers prioritizing remaining unvaccinated for COVID-19 over

www.nny360.com

Again, I’m not saying to do nothing. I’m pointing out that those believing mandates and requirements will magically make everything ok are in for some disappointment.

I’m taking about of the total population. Once children are able to get the vaccine, I don’t see much difficulty in getting 80% of the population vaccinated. There are lots of parents who can’t wait to get their kids the jab.

 

[DCBaker]

Anyone know where I can check the positivity rate each week?

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/covid19-data/covid19_data_latest.pdf

 

[DonniePeverley]

Why not do something about social media?

Hopefully by Christmas as enough more people getting vaccinated as 5-11 kids too if there isn't any new strains or variants by then.

Variants don't respect borders. If one pops up on the other side of the world, it will end up here.

 

[LittleBuford]

This reinforces it to the nth degree.
They think the government is authoritarian, now they have their "evidence."

What approach do you think would bring them around?

 

[GoofGoof]

What approach do you think would bring them around?

For what it’s worth, in the polling I have seen two of the top reasons given that would change unvaccinated people’s mind about getting the vaccine were employers requiring it and not having to get tested as frequently. The new OSHA plan will cover one or the other or both depending on how companies decide to comply. It’s easy to resist something when there’s nothing at stake. Much harder when it means a large inconvenience like finding a new job or weekly testing. I think a large percent of the people will come around even if it’s reluctantly. We will still have some that won’t budge and some will commit fraud and get a fake card but this should help increase vaccination levels overall as well as make going to work for companies that comply that much safer for everyone going forward.