Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chi84]

You're welcome to your opinion, but in my opinion, forcing a vaccine which has yet to achieve FDA approval into your employees' arms seems like a foolish move.

That's all I'll say on this matter, seeing as anything more would tread on political.

Is lack of full FDA approval your only objection? Do you think employers should wait until full approval to mandate the vaccine? Why do you believe it’s foolish for employers to mandate the vaccine at this point?

 

[Disney Experience]

Hospitals requiring staff to be vaccinated makes sense. They are routinely working with people who are on the brink of death.

On the other hand, you don't go to a theme park if you're seriously ill. So why, before the vaccine even has full FDA approval, would Disney require all their people to be vaccinated?

The reason there is such a thing as Emergency Use Authorization is that a pandemic that is causing significant death, injury, economic and mental harm is a different situation than a vaccine for a disease that is not causing an “emergency”.

The vaccines safety and effectivity has been shown and weighed against the risks outstanding, both by the vaccine ( unbelievably low ) and the emergency ( covid pandemic ) by reviewers who are experts and saw good clean data via the trials. The data from millions who have been vaccinated since have shown that the vaccines work and are safe.

We are lucky we have as safe and effective vaccines such as Pfizer and Moderna.

It is a shame that unfounded fear of tested vaccines has caused this country to have to continue suffering a pandemic. Many countries only wish they had our vaccine supply when we got it.

 

[Brian]

There is absolutely no way these vaccines aren’t approved. It’s an absurd idea - it would cause mass chaos. We’re just seeing bureaucratic foot-dragging. They’re as good as approved.

I agree with you there. But until they are FDA approved, there's greater liability to companies like Disney if something happens to their employees, at minimum from a worker's comp standpoint.

Public sector doing it is expected. They have immunity (no pun intended). I'm shocked that Disney's corporate counsel didn't veto this; they are usually extremely conservative when it comes to potential liability.

 

[HeartOfTeFiti]

EDIT:

Deleting this comment because people are misrepresenting what I said. I am the last person on Earth deserving of being talked to like I'm anti-vax. I find it really ridiculous when people just jump in and start commenting without getting up to speed with the conversation first.

 

[mmascari]

I agree with you there. But until they are FDA approved, there's greater liability to companies like Disney if something happens to their employees, at minimum from a worker's comp standpoint.

Public sector doing it is expected. They have immunity (no pun intended). I'm shocked that Disney's corporate counsel didn't veto this; they are usually extremely conservative when it comes to potential liability.

As has been said many times, the safety testing is all done.

Delay in approval is related to other things. Such as how the long term storage at different temperatures works. The FDA loses a lot leverage on these things, like handling controls after approval.

 

[Lilofan]

There is absolutely no way these vaccines aren’t approved. It’s an absurd idea - it would cause mass chaos. We’re just seeing bureaucratic foot-dragging. They’re as good as approved.

As I was opining endlessly earlier this week, it was always going to end with mandates. This is a bit faster and broader then I expected, so good for Disney. Uni better follow suit.

When the FDA does approve, I suspect this will extend to guests very quickly.

I believe FL law states that employers can request proof of vaccination from employees and if no proof, employees can get fired. I think companies in FL cannot require proof of vaccinations from guests but when some cruise lines are doing is - no proof you say? Pay for this, pay for that ( cruise line covid test, required travel insurance for the unvaccinated crowd ).

 

[Lilofan]

That one seems trickier to me. I mean, when a company, or even the federal civil service, tells employees it's required, the employee has a choice to seek alternate employment. Military members, not so much. I'm not saying that the military shouldn't be vaccinated, just saying it seems like a different situation to me (until it's fully approved).

I've had family in the military . During the first few days of boot camp, they get a number of vaccine shots without question.

 

[Brian]

I believe FL law states that employers can request proof of vaccination from employees and if no proof, employees can get fired. I think companies in FL cannot require proof of vaccinations from guests but when some cruise lines are doing is - no proof you say? Pay for this, pay for that ( cruise line covid test, required travel insurance for the unvaccinated crowd ).

Correct. The new law only covers a ban on requiring proof of vaccination for customers, not employers.

Now given today's developments and the likely avalanche of other companies following suit, I would not be surprised to see Governor DeSantis try to issue an executive order to ban this practice (no, I do not think that would be legal).

 

[Disney Experience]

That one seems trickier to me. I mean, when a company, or even the federal civil service, tells employees it's required, the employee has a choice to seek alternate employment. Military members, not so much. I'm not saying that the military shouldn't be vaccinated, just saying it seems like a different situation to me (until it's fully approved).

When I joined the military at the ripe old age of 17, they gave me so many vaccines that after one batch of vaccinations as we stood at attention the Chief saw me go pale and collapse. ( Not sure what happened ).

But vaccines are especially important for the military. Picture going to war and your troops get ravaged by illness. You do not get to tell the enemy you want a time out until your side is fit to engage. You also do not want to tempt them into biological warfare.

 

[HeartOfTeFiti]

I've had family in the military . During the first few days of boot camp, they get a number of vaccine shots without question.

Absolutely, I do too and I know that. My comment was specific to full approval. I also agree that full approval is just a talking point in this situation. I'm vaccinated. I didn't hesitate and I won't hesitate when my kids are eligible.

 

[HeartOfTeFiti]

When I joined the military at the ripe old age of 17, they gave me so many vaccines that after one batch of vaccinations as we stood at attention the Chief saw me go pale and collapse. ( Not sure what happened ).

But vaccines are especially important for the military. Picture going to war and your troops get ravaged by illness. You do not get to tell the enemy you want a time out until you side is fit to engage. You also do not want to tempt them into biological warfare.

Okay, okay, okay!! I wasn't disputing that the military should get vaccinated! That is not what I said. Please do not put me in that camp. I've been vaccinated since April. I want everyone vaccinated.... yesterday!

 

[GimpYancIent]

Yes, any person that has served in the military can attest to receiving what seemed like a never ending list of shots. I remember my unit receiving several shots in both arms (the infamous no needle gun) proceeding outside, waiting 15 minutes, then proceeding to do push ups (in cadence of course).

 

[Chi84]

I agree with you there. But until they are FDA approved, there's greater liability to companies like Disney if something happens to their employees, at minimum from a worker's comp standpoint.

Public sector doing it is expected. They have immunity (no pun intended). I'm shocked that Disney's corporate counsel didn't veto this; they are usually extremely conservative when it comes to potential liability.

What type of liability are you envisioning in your scenario? Reports of serious reactions from the vaccines are extremely rare - it seems there would be much less exposure than with the typical worker's comp injuries - and the upside for Disney would be a healthier workforce far less likely to become seriously ill from exposure to guests carrying the virus.

 

[Disney Experience]

Okay, okay, okay!! I wasn't disputing that the military should get vaccinated! That is not what I said. Please do not put me in that camp. I've been vaccinated since April. I want everyone vaccinated.... yesterday!

I understand. It is just that in my opinion in a pandemic, the military needs to be ready, and vaccines as good as the MRNA ones against a highly contagious disease is worth requiring after EUA. The one argument I could see is that those in the military are younger and healthier than the general public and therefore less likely to get moderate or serious covid

 

[HeartOfTeFiti]

I understand. It is just that in my opinion in a pandemic, the military needs to be ready, and vaccines as good as the MRNA ones against a highly contagious disease is worth requiring after EUA. The one argument I could see is that those in the military are younger and healthier than the general public and therefore less likely to get moderate or serious covid

Of course! Totally agree. They should be vaccinated in this situation. My post absolutely did not say otherwise! I have never said or thought otherwise.

 

[danlb_2000]

Correct. The new law only covers a ban on requiring proof of vaccination for customers, not employers.

Now given today's developments and the likely avalanche of other companies following suit, I would not be surprised to see Governor DeSantis try to issue an executive order to ban this practice (no, I do not think that would be legal).

I am wondering if this is why the original executive order didn't even try to go there, they knew it wouldn't hold up legally.

 

[TokyoMiki]

If anyone is thinking this may get challenged, it has precident with the Smallpox vaccine and already went up to the Supreme court in 1905.

1905!?

Extremely naive to automatically assume a 2021 Supreme makeup would review the issue the same as that of a court pre WW1.

I'm not saying it would or would not hold today; I am saying precedents get overturned depending on the judicial DNA(liberal, conservative, swing minded, caretaker or activist) of CURRENT sitting jurists.

 

[Andrew C]

feds looking into a vaccine mandate for all it seems. At least potentially.

 

[JoeCamel]

Just for grins

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/06/18/white-evangelicals-vaccine/

 

[hopemax]

We DO have a high vaccination rate...64.07% fully vaccinated. But part of the problem is out-of-state people came from all over to celebrate the 4th. The ENTIRE population of P-town is only 2994 people.

So I just read a Twitter thread, that tries to explain what happened in Cape Cod. First, this cluster still correctly identified the flaw in the assumption that vaccinated people don't spread COVID, but there are some features of this cluster that have implications for the potential within the general population.

85% of the cases were in men. This does not mean men are more at risk for being infected with COVID after vaccination. It means more men, in P-town were present and engaging in behavior that leads to greater chances of being infected, and the CDC was trying to avoid the negative framing that would undoubtedly accompany this cohort.

You seem to be familiar with the area. What is unique to the gathering in P-town?

Don't go around kissing people who might be infected with COVID. So the same rules from throughout this pandemic apply... Close contact increases the potential for infection, even when vaccinated and some behaviors increase how close, the close contact is.

So we do have to worry about vaccinated people spreading, but it's not going to be the same level of spread (and thus the point of the twitter thread is that the CDC is overestimating the increase in R(0) as it would be in the general population) as seen in P-town; as many people aren't getting that much action.

So hopefully, this will help you relax a little about what it means overall. But Sturgis will probably be another fun time for the Dakotas and surrounding states.