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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

durangojim

Well-Known Member
If WDW reinstates indoor masking and it isn't removed before the next time I was going to visit (likely in late October/early November) I will be asking for a pro-rated refund for the remainder of my AP. I will also not patronize any business that requires fully vaccinated people to wear a mask. Not having to wear an annoying and uncomfortable mask was a primary driver of me getting vaccinated. I don't care if I can get a high viral load with a mild or asymptomatic case of Delta and make an unvaccinated person very sick.

Get vaccinated if you don't want to get very sick and stop making me do things to protect you. Standard caveat of I feel bad for immunocompromised people or those who can't get vaccinated. Unfortunately, you'll need to take extra precautions like wearing an N95 respirator if you want to be at a lower risk.
Good luck with that
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I think you knew what I meant.🙂 We are heavily invested in the beginning for 5-10 years.. then they know it’s guaranteed some form of cash flow from us or family for the next 40 years.
I do know what you mean, but the reality is that DVC are not their big spenders really. They are constant source of income, but like AP holders, that's not who Disney wants to hook into for money. Most DVC members are only there for 15 years on average too.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
That doesn't rule out the possibility that it would have spread even farther and faster without them. Using that number you mentioned about peak... It doesn't rule out peaking at 90/100K instead of 69 without mitigation.

Even small percentage decreases in transmission are compounded over several infection cycles into meaningful numbers of overall difference.
I don’t disagree and if the US wave never reaches the UK levels it won’t be because we had less restrictions. I was disagreeing with the statement that this delta wave of Covid in the US was caused by relaxing mitigations. This wave was coming either way. The only way to avoid it would have been a lot more vaccinations or total lock downs (which we never had and never will).
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Your realize you are talking about millions of kids under 12 who are unable to get any kind of COVID vaccine
Unless there is some new data that I'm not aware of, there has been nothing to suggest that a kid under 12 is at any higher risk of severe illness from Delta than they were from the prior variants. The risk for prior variants to that population was extremely low and factually lower than the risk to them from the flu in a normal year. If that information changes then I'll change my stance. I've said from the beginning that if children were heavily affected by COVID many of my opinions would be different.

Now, I'd like somebody to educate me regarding masks and the Delta variant. If we assume that the lab experiments translate to the real world and the mask blocks 70% of the virus leaving the infected person and 70% of the virus entering the non-infected person, that means that 9% of the virus particles make it through the journey.

Now, it has been reported that the viral load for somebody infected with Delta is 1000 times what it was for prior variants. 1000 times 9% is 9000%. That means that for Delta, 90 times the amount of virus will make the journey, through masks that made it through the with prior variants through masks. If I'm doing the math correctly, that means that for Delta, there will be 8.1 times the amount of virus that makes the journey WITH masking than made the journey without masking of the other variants. Therefore, why would we expect masking to have any significant effect on Delta.

Obviously, the real world numbers will be higher due to variable materials, fit and how people are wearing the masks.
 

durangojim

Well-Known Member
What I'm surprised by is that people who received the vaccine thought it would be carte blanche to not have to wear masks or follow any kind of guidelines at all. Anyone who has been paying attention to this thing should have known that conditions can and will change and that mitigation strategies would change over time and possibly revert. Those who don't think that are in denial.
 
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durangojim

Well-Known Member
Unless there is some new data that I'm not aware of, there has been nothing to suggest that a kid under 12 is at any higher risk of severe illness from Delta than they were from the prior variants. The risk for prior variants to that population was extremely low and factually lower than the risk to them from the flu in a normal year. If that information changes then I'll change my stance. I've said from the beginning that if children were heavily affected by COVID many of my opinions would be different.

Now, I'd like somebody to educate me regarding masks and the Delta variant. If we assume that the lab experiments translate to the real world and the mask blocks 70% of the virus leaving the infected person and 70% of the virus entering the non-infected person, that means that 9% of the virus particles make it through the journey.

Now, it has been reported that the viral load for somebody infected with Delta is 1000 times what it was for prior variants. 1000 times 9% is 9000%. That means that for Delta, 90 times the amount of virus will make the journey, through masks that made it through the with prior variants through masks. If I'm doing the math correctly, that means that for Delta, there will be 8.1 times the amount of virus that makes the journey WITH masking than made the journey without masking of the other variants. Therefore, why would we expect masking to have any significant effect on Delta.

Obviously, the real world numbers will be higher due to variable materials, fit and how people are wearing the masks.
You should go to Disney and test your hypothesis by not wearing a mask and post your findings.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Unless there is some new data that I'm not aware of, there has been nothing to suggest that a kid under 12 is at any higher risk of severe illness from Delta than they were from the prior variants. The risk for prior variants to that population was extremely low and factually lower than the risk to them from the flu in a normal year. If that information changes then I'll change my stance. I've said from the beginning that if children were heavily affected by COVID many of my opinions would be different.

Now, I'd like somebody to educate me regarding masks and the Delta variant. If we assume that the lab experiments translate to the real world and the mask blocks 70% of the virus leaving the infected person and 70% of the virus entering the non-infected person, that means that 9% of the virus particles make it through the journey.

Now, it has been reported that the viral load for somebody infected with Delta is 1000 times what it was for prior variants. 1000 times 9% is 9000%. That means that for Delta, 90 times the amount of virus will make the journey, through masks that made it through the with prior variants through masks. If I'm doing the math correctly, that means that for Delta, there will be 8.1 times the amount of virus that makes the journey WITH masking than made the journey without masking of the other variants. Therefore, why would we expect masking to have any significant effect on Delta.

Obviously, the real world numbers will be higher due to variable materials, fit and how people are wearing the masks.
Gordon Ramsay Facepalm GIF by Masterchef

Can't even begin to put a reply together.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
You know my stance on this, I am pro vax, have been vaxed for a while now, BUT.... the CDC is just not handling this correctly right now.

"Some vaccinated people" "certain places" the message right now is really bad.

Should be all or nothing. Trying to thread the needle here and its not going to work IMO.

Do they say who the "some vaccinated people" are?
Why, because some people are idiots? This isn't hard to understand at all.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
You should go to Disney and test your hypothesis by not wearing a mask and post your findings.
That's how you explain the "science?" With a snarky answer. I have gone to Disney without wearing a mask. I won't go to Disney if they require them again. If they make the rule and I don't want to follow it then I just can't go. They have every right to make rules and I have the ability not to visit if I don't like the rules.
 

phillip9698

Well-Known Member
What I'm surprised by is that people who received the vaccine thought it would be carte blanche to not have to wear masks or follow any kind of guidelines at all. Anyone who has been paying attention to this thing should have know that conditions can and will change and that mitigation strategies would change over time and possibly revert. Those who don't think that are in denial.

The current conditions are not due to the people who took the vaccine. Living in GA i knew with certainty this was going to be a boondoggle because of the number of people around here who are 100% refusing the vaccine and were just waiting for mask mandates to end before they carried on business as usual.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Anyone who’s choosing to travel at this time should be prepared for local rules to change before and even during their trip. We’re still in the middle of a pandemic, after all. The rush to act as if everything will soon be back to normal because of the vaccines has been a really unfortunate development of the past few months: it obfuscates the continuing seriousness of the situation, and it only leads to further frustration and impatience.

That's the word. Thank you.

Patience.

People need to find their patience again. It's happening all over the world, but it really seems amplified in America. The lack of patience during a pandemic is shocking.
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
The current conditions are not due to the people who took the vaccine. Living in GA i knew with certainty this was going to be a boondoggle because of the number of people around here who are 100% refusing the vaccine and were just waiting for mask mandates to end before they carried on business as usual.
Same in SC...my mother is hosting an "End of Covid" party this Saturday.........🙄🙄🙄🙄
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
That's how you explain the "science?" With a snarky answer. I have gone to Disney without wearing a mask. I won't go to Disney if they require them again. If they make the rule and I don't want to follow it then I just can't go. They have every right to make rules and I have the ability not to visit if I don't like the rules.
Correction: you "won't" go, not "can't."

And for every one of you, there's one of me: if I feel they aren't being responsible enough, then I won't go. If they bring masking back, you stay home and I go to take your place. Disney will be fine either way.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
We are about a year and a half into this and just under 400 children have died of COVID-19. In 2019, about 200 kids died of the flu. Kids are not at a significantly higher risk of COVID than other common illnesses. Forcing scare tactics on them ignores other aspects of health ie mental health.
As has been pointed out time and again, death is not the only bad outcome of COVID.
 

drizgirl

Well-Known Member
I think someone may have been vaccinated for the wrong reason.
If your daughter is entered to private school, are you going to make them sign a contract stating there will be no mask requirement, or will you pull them out when a mask mandate happens?

How about just wear the mask? This is a new situation with the Delta variant, as unfortunate as it is.
I wonder how many will now claim the vaccines were useless, even though the probability is pretty darn high that the reason we are in this situation now is due to lack of vaccination in a timely manner combined with lax mask wearing.
There is no wrong reason to be vaccinated.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Unless there is some new data that I'm not aware of, there has been nothing to suggest that a kid under 12 is at any higher risk of severe illness from Delta than they were from the prior variants. The risk for prior variants to that population was extremely low and factually lower than the risk to them from the flu in a normal year. If that information changes then I'll change my stance. I've said from the beginning that if children were heavily affected by COVID many of my opinions would be different.
The data on young kids (below 12) has never lined up with what people continue to suggest for mitigation due to this group being unvaccinated. It continues to point to this age group being very low risk for the virus AND very low risk of contributing to spread. There is zero evidence delta is any different for them. Using this group as an excuse to put back in place mitigation efforts irks me. Do what you think is best for your own children but don't use all children as a reason, as a prop, for further mitigation when the data doesn't back that up.

To provide one recent example, I think it was yesterday that OC stated all their cases were from unvaccinated and all were from age groups where the vaccine was available.

The better argument for mitigation is to point to the high spread and low vaccination rates (and then focus how 99% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated to get more people to take the shot). But neither is putting this age group, again under 12, at a significant risk.
 

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
When it comes to kids people are forgetting during this whole pandemic there has not been a HUGE volume of children gathering together in one area.
This fall, that changes. Most schools are back in session in person and with attitudes changing towards the pandemic, parents are more likely to send their kids to in person school. We have not seen anything like this during the pandemic yet. It will be a true test.
 

mf1972

Well-Known Member
I think if Disney goes to masking indoors, we are talking many many months before that goes away. I don’t see Florida getting out of red or any shade close to it the way things are going in the red state . This is all IF Disney follows the cdc recommendations.
unless desantis makes a dramatic turnaround, i don’t see any changes coming anytime soon. i hope he does though.
 

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