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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Well... the reason you were right was because the CDC and Biden reversed what they had said about masks overnight.
The change was sudden, but the fundamental reason for the change has been part of the plan since last November when the first vaccine got approval. The plan has always been that we get enough people vaccinated to drive cases down and then we relax mitigation until all restrictions are gone. We’re almost there. The CDC change on masks and distancing for fully vaccinated people was based on the downward trajectory of cases and the total number of people vaccinated. We can debate what the right level of each should have been to make such a change but it was the CDCs call and they made it based on science and statistics and not just a random change.
 

TrainChasers

Well-Known Member
The change was sudden, but the fundamental reason for the change has been part of the plan since last November when the first vaccine got approval. The plan has always been that we get enough people vaccinated to drive cases down and then we relax mitigation until all restrictions are gone. We’re almost there. The CDC change on masks and distancing for fully vaccinated people was based on the downward trajectory of cases and the total number of people vaccinated. We can debate what the right level of each should have been to make such a change but it was the CDCs call and they made it based on science and statistics and not just a random change.
I never said it was a random change. I said they reversed what they had said overnight. I was not happy with how the CDC and President Biden made that call.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Can we not make this into another us vs. them?
Not sure I understand what you mean. I started out saying that I was wrong more times than I was right in this thread. You could literally go back and pick a hundred posts out where something I said didn’t happen. One guy even did start doing that :).

Now that the last of the distancing and mask rules at WDW have been relaxed (outside of transport) and the capacity limits have been removed for all practical purposes I see no harm in celebrating the “return to mostly normal” at the parks. I understand that some people think it’s a mistake or too soon and that‘s a valid opinion and I’m not arguing that one way or the other. Just reacting to the situation as it unfolds.

I saw this post from blog Mickey which I thought was really cool. It’s a collage of pictures of mask free CMs smiling happily. As we have all followed the progress of WDW during the pandemic there has been a ton of debate back and forth mostly focused on guest experience, but it must be a huge relief for the CMs who first and foremost are all back from furlough and working again, but also finally do not have to wear a mask every day to work in the hot sun and also don’t have to deal with enforcing mask and distancing rules anymore.

 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I never said it was a random change. I said they reversed what they had said overnight. I was not happy with how the CDC and President Biden made that call.
Yup. The timing was purely a "marketing" decision. Punctuated by slick, ad-agency created "info-graphics".

They saw the vaccinations were dropping, that they weren't going to meet their big 70% goal, and decided it was a last ditch way to try to get more people to do it. Even though as any intelligent person knows, the vaccine resistant portion of the public did not respond by "Oh gee, I should get vaccinated now!" but instead tore off their masks since no one was going to enforce it any more.

"The science" didn't change in the three days between when Fauci said masks were not going anywhere any time soon and the White House made it's sudden, about face.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I never said it was a random change. I said they reversed what they had said overnight. I was not happy with how the CDC and President Biden made that call.
I would not have been opposed to a plan where they gave a future date to give businesses and state/local governments more time to plan. So I agree there. I also would not have been opposed to the CDC firmly recommending all employers only allow workers to go mask free if they show proof of vaccination. Some states did it that way which I think is the better plan.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I've come to the conclusion that most people who obsessively post daily in this thread are doing so to reassure/convince themselves of whatever narrative they want to believe. So they have divided people up into groups to make it easier to construct their own version of reality, so they can dismiss them and gain reassurance of their chosen narrative.
I’m not sure that‘s a fair characterization of my posting history here, but I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion. Sorry if I offended you or others. I’ve been posting here since the start and there have been some really low points and
finally some reasons to be optimistic. We aren’t out of the woods yet, but things are looking good right now.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand what you mean. I started out saying that I was wrong more times than I was right in this thread. You could literally go back and pick a hundred posts out where something I said didn’t happen. One guy even did start doing that :).
Specifically this...

On one small aspect of this whole pandemic team optimism 1, team doom and gloom 0

We ALL want the pandemic to end...some of us are just of the opinion that especially with the delta variant in the US that we're moving too quickly. And with so many areas doing so poorly with vaccination, mutations are a real concern.
 

DisneyWildcat

New Member
I've come to the conclusion that most people who obsessively post daily in this thread are doing so to reassure/convince themselves of whatever narrative they want to believe. So they have divided people up into groups to make it easier to construct their own version of reality, so they can dismiss them and gain reassurance of their chosen narrative.
Well said
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Specifically this...



We ALL want the pandemic to end...some of us are just of the opinion that especially with the delta variant in the US that we're moving too quickly. And with so many areas doing so poorly with vaccination, mutations are a real concern.
I also did not appreciate the scorecard. And appreciated your "us vs them" post.

Did we get a scorecard when all the optimists were dismissive that the death toll would reach even the 60K from the initial IHME graphs. Or the range predicted by the UK model, or Dr. Osterholm's March 2020 prediction of 480,000 (which even turned out to be optimistic). Of course not! Because no one wants to see optimists 0; doom & gloomers 1. It's not something to celebrate. So @GoofGoof gets to post a score, and all his party emojis, for the one thing he got right, and even when the other side is correct, it has to be silence because it's a horrible thing. It doesn't feel right. And the answer isn't for team D&G to celebrate their wins. It's not to post a score at all.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand what you mean. I started out saying that I was wrong more times than I was right in this thread. You could literally go back and pick a hundred posts out where something I said didn’t happen. One guy even did start doing that :).

Now that the last of the distancing and mask rules at WDW have been relaxed (outside of transport) and the capacity limits have been removed for all practical purposes I see no harm in celebrating the “return to mostly normal” at the parks. I understand that some people think it’s a mistake or too soon and that‘s a valid opinion and I’m not arguing that one way or the other. Just reacting to the situation as it unfolds.

I saw this post from blog Mickey which I thought was really cool. It’s a collage of pictures of mask free CMs smiling happily. As we have all followed the progress of WDW during the pandemic there has been a ton of debate back and forth mostly focused on guest experience, but it must be a huge relief for the CMs who first and foremost are all back from furlough and working again, but also finally do not have to wear a mask every day to work in the hot sun and also don’t have to deal with enforcing mask and distancing rules anymore.

CMs that I either spoke to or overheard yesterday seemed elated to be able to be mask free.

Now, if they can please reinstate all of the pre-shows (like ToT) things would get even better. However, they can leave out room #1 of FoP because the actor/character get's really grating after more than 20 seconds.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
C680CD45-0E75-449B-BDF0-FA6B4A24AACA.jpeg

I deleted the line containing the “scorecard”. I suggest anyone who was offended by that go back and read the actual post instead of focusing on one line. What I was celebrating has nothing to do with the delta variant or projected deaths or any of that stuff. I am celebrating the success of the vaccine rollout and speed of deliveries. I’m celebrating the impact on covid cases and the start of a “return to normal” for the Summer, specifically at WDW. That is all. Many people doubted we would have enough vaccine by now or that it would work well enough to drive cases down but it has been a big success.

This pandemic has been horrific. There are many things the Federal Government and the state governments did terribly wrong that combined with individual actions may have resulted in countless unnecessary hospitalizations and deaths. None of that is a cause for celebration. However, we have to move forward now and IMHO it’s ok for people to be happy with the vaccine success and to be happy to see a place that’s special to them like WDW start to look normal again. That doesn’t mean the pandemic wasn’t a terrible tragedy and it doesn’t mean it’s over yet. There is good reason for cautious optimism IMHO but if people don’t want to embrace that it’s their choice too.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
CMs that I either spoke to or overheard yesterday seemed elated to be able to be mask free.

Now, if they can please reinstate all of the pre-shows (like ToT) things would get even better. However, they can leave out room #1 of FoP because the actor/character get's really grating after more than 20 seconds.
I imagine the regular workers are pretty happy and they have a recent influx of college students who lost a year+ of their college experience but at least now will get a shot at some fun for the Summer😎
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I've come to the conclusion that most people who obsessively post daily in this thread are doing so to reassure/convince themselves of whatever narrative they want to believe. So they have divided people up into groups to make it easier to construct their own version of reality, so they can dismiss them and gain reassurance of their chosen narrative.
Nope, I really just have nothing better to do with my time. My first post was to attempt to help a fellow anxious person and then it turned into giving info after joining the trial. Now it's like a trainwreck I cannot get away from ;) Plus some pretty cool people.

Many here changed thoughts often so narratives often changed. Heck I went from thinking vaccines were impossible to being a huge pusher of getting vaccinated. So people change
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand what you mean. I started out saying that I was wrong more times than I was right in this thread. You could literally go back and pick a hundred posts out where something I said didn’t happen. One guy even did start doing that :).

Now that the last of the distancing and mask rules at WDW have been relaxed (outside of transport) and the capacity limits have been removed for all practical purposes I see no harm in celebrating the “return to mostly normal” at the parks. I understand that some people think it’s a mistake or too soon and that‘s a valid opinion and I’m not arguing that one way or the other. Just reacting to the situation as it unfolds.

I saw this post from blog Mickey which I thought was really cool. It’s a collage of pictures of mask free CMs smiling happily. As we have all followed the progress of WDW during the pandemic there has been a ton of debate back and forth mostly focused on guest experience, but it must be a huge relief for the CMs who first and foremost are all back from furlough and working again, but also finally do not have to wear a mask every day to work in the hot sun and also don’t have to deal with enforcing mask and distancing rules anymore.

I wish I could have seen that - though I am glad for the lesser crowds from when I went. Next trip should be great to see as I hope it will be normal!
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
View attachment 564771
I deleted the line containing the “scorecard”. I suggest anyone who was offended by that go back and read the actual post instead of focusing on one line. What I was celebrating has nothing to do with the delta variant or projected deaths or any of that stuff. I am celebrating the success of the vaccine rollout and speed of deliveries. I’m celebrating the impact on covid cases and the start of a “return to normal” for the Summer, specifically at WDW. That is all. Many people doubted we would have enough vaccine by now or that it would work well enough to drive cases down but it has been a big success.

This pandemic has been horrific. There are many things the Federal Government and the state governments did terribly wrong that combined with individual actions may have resulted in countless unnecessary hospitalizations and deaths. None of that is a cause for celebration. However, we have to move forward now and IMHO it’s ok for people to be happy with the vaccine success and to be happy to see a place that’s special to them like WDW start to look normal again. That doesn’t mean the pandemic wasn’t a terrible tragedy and it doesn’t mean it’s over yet. There is good reason for cautious optimism IMHO but if people don’t want to embrace that it’s their choice too.
Thanks for deleting. It's not that I found it offensive, per se, and I understand the need/want to celebrate any wins...believe me, I get it.

We just don't need yet another means of dividing each other, that's all. There are plenty of people out there making sure people stay angry at one another, and I'm trying my best to push the angry aside any time I can.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
I think it’s important to remember that no one wants life restricted, uncomfortable safety measures in place, or the economy to suffer.

But I think it’s also important to remember that those of us who may be called “Doom and Gloomers” or too cautious, truly believe a little bit longer of strict measures can save lives and benefit our various countries.

We just want what we believe is best for everyone during a pandemic. We are all sick of it, but we are just so close to potentially ruin it now.
 

danlb_2000

Well-Known Member
Specifically this...



We ALL want the pandemic to end...some of us are just of the opinion that especially with the delta variant in the US that we're moving too quickly. And with so many areas doing so poorly with vaccination, mutations are a real concern.

Yes, mutations are a concern, but what can really be done about it at this point? The specter of a possible immunity resistant mutations isn't going to convince many hold outs to get the vaccine, and even if we did get a high vaccination rate in the US, it's going to take years to get the rest of the world vaccinated and if a mutations pops up there it's only a matter of time before it gets here.
 

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