Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Sirwalterraleigh]

is NJ Transit rail and buses will have masks no longer required by July?

from the looks of it this morning....most places will have an extremely high amount of masks for some time.

People are trained...and the ambiguity of vaccines without verification will not go away immediately

 

[DisneyFan32]

from the looks of it this morning....most places will have an extremely high amount of masks for some time.

People are trained...and the ambiguity of vaccines without verification will not go away immediately

Maybe NJ Transit will not have masks required by next month or July or August

 

[DisneyCane]

Federal mandate for masks on public transportation remains effective through Sept unless the Dept of Transportation changes it.

How does the DOT have the authority for this on intrastate public transportation? For air travel I guess it's based on FAA authority over "air safety." For ground transportation, I don't think it works the same.

For example with seatbelts, there is a federal requirement that vehicles have seatbelts but that authority comes from the power to regulate interstate commerce as well as international. Each individual State has a law that requires the use of the seatbelts because the federal government doesn't have that authority.

From a legal perspective, why would it be different with mask mandates for public transportation? I know that there is federal funding involved for public transportation but I highly doubt that kind of authority was built into the appropriations laws when they were passed. For interstate transportation, I can see the authority existing.

I'm genuinely curious what the legal theory is for this authority that the DOT appears to have.

 

[Patcheslee]

That the clickbait site saying that? If they don't then that will backfire (There's no Orange County Mayor meeting scheduled like they had last time to announce the next phase, even though SeaWorld already has the policy).

Either way the Orlando Intl Airport is expecting a traveler count HIGHER than 2019 (pre-pandemic) for Memorial Weekend, so it's going to be a bit crazy everywhere, and probably an indicator of how the overall summer is going to be. (Overcrowded with not enough open to hold it) One big indicator, the nonstop domestic seat capacity from June through August is actually 7% higher than in the summer of 2019.

Is WDW News clickbait? Don't really know cause think they were the same ones that mentioned the Disney changes imminent before it was official.

 

[Touchdown]

How does the DOT have the authority for this on intrastate public transportation? For air travel I guess it's based on FAA authority over "air safety." For ground transportation, I don't think it works the same.

For example with seatbelts, there is a federal requirement that vehicles have seatbelts but that authority comes from the power to regulate interstate commerce as well as international. Each individual State has a law that requires the use of the seatbelts because the federal government doesn't have that authority.

From a legal perspective, why would it be different with mask mandates for public transportation? I know that there is federal funding involved for public transportation but I highly doubt that kind of authority was built into the appropriations laws when they were passed. For interstate transportation, I can see the authority existing.

I'm genuinely curious what the legal theory is for this authority that the DOT appears to have.

Federal Highway Act, if a road is labeled an Interstate or a US Highway the feds mostly funded it, even some local streets too. Can’t travel to too many places and not at least intersect one of those roads.

All funds for said road are contingent on state’s mandating federal safety guidelines.

 

[danlb_2000]

Is WDW News clickbait? Don't really know cause think they were the same ones that mentioned the Disney changes imminent before it was official.

They are hit and miss. They made some high profile misses in the past so they got a bad reputation for being click-bait, among other reasons.

 

[DCBaker]

The UO side of the site that can't be named says Universal Orlando will reportedly no longer require masks indoors starting this Saturday.

That site is now saying UO Team Members have been informed as of this morning (just noting nothing official from UO has been posted) -

"Universal is not requiring guests to provide proof of vaccination to go without a mask, but expects guests to comply.

While onstage, Team Members are required to wear face coverings both indoors and outdoors. Backstage, fully vaccinated Team Members are not required to wear masks, with “some exceptions.” If they are not fully vaccinated, they are required to wear masks when indoors backstage and outdoors if physical distancing is not possible."

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Federal Highway Act, if a road is labeled an Interstate or a US Highway the feds mostly funded it, even some local streets too. Can’t travel to too many places and not at least intersect one of those roads.

All funds for said road are contingent on state’s mandating federal safety guidelines.

correct. Also the NTSB has some jurisdiction over all forms of transport

the government is “meshed”

and generally speaking - there’s really zero intelligent reason to argue such things.

and before I hear “state raaaaiiiights!!”...

the states putting bans on businesses/municipalities from requiring precautions or restrictions is perhaps the biggest example of government overreach in my lifetime.

but you won’t here that from those defending “freedom” so loudly they don’t stop to understand it...I bet

 

[GoofGoof]

How does the DOT have the authority for this on intrastate public transportation? For air travel I guess it's based on FAA authority over "air safety." For ground transportation, I don't think it works the same.

For example with seatbelts, there is a federal requirement that vehicles have seatbelts but that authority comes from the power to regulate interstate commerce as well as international. Each individual State has a law that requires the use of the seatbelts because the federal government doesn't have that authority.

From a legal perspective, why would it be different with mask mandates for public transportation? I know that there is federal funding involved for public transportation but I highly doubt that kind of authority was built into the appropriations laws when they were passed. For interstate transportation, I can see the authority existing.

I'm genuinely curious what the legal theory is for this authority that the DOT appears to have.

The FTA provides some financial funding for buses, subways, light rail and trains. They are also responsible for setting safety measures. The FTA is a branch of the US Department of Transportation which has multiple other areas it oversees. The FAA is one of them but TSA itself is now part of Homeland Security and not DOT. I assume it’s under the responsibility to set safety measures that the authority exists. The Federal Government does not have the authority to enforce those measures so the FBI won’t be showing up to arrest you for not wearing a mask on the subway. That responsibility is left to the local police or transit authority depending on where you are.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They are hit and miss. They made some high profile misses in the past so they got a bad reputation for being click-bait, among other reasons.

everyone is “hit or miss”...some just don’t care and spout line Jimmy boy...

a lot of other Disney trackers just hedge to the ends of the earth.

why? Not their fault...it’s just that people that work for Disney - even semi upper management - don’t want to believe the work in an oligarchy where they aren’t really part of the real decision making...but that’s the way it is.

 

[DisneyCane]

Not sure if I buy the logic that people would have been significantly more compliant with mitigation if it was voluntary then if it was mandatory.

I don't buy it at all after what we've all seen.

Following up with a second report after a couple of more visits to the Walmart in a red area of FL that never had a mask mandate. I've now been there 4 times since Walmart changed the policy to only unvaccinated have to wear masks. On every visit I have seen noticeably higher mask wearing by customers and proper mask wearing by employees since the policy change than before the policy change.

I don't really have an explanation but it is possible that when given the option of vaccination or mask that people who are not fully vaccinated are more likely to comply than when it was a mandate from Walmart with only one option.

 

[Bob Harlem]

"The site" followed up the Universal dropping masks with a "confirmed" headline, referencing internal employee memos (but not showing them). Still not officially announced, however. If it's based on the <%5 positivity rates it could be true. Disney could follow up with a late evening announcement like they did last time.

TV News in Miami decided the original one was good enough for this https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/05/28/fully-vaccinated-no-masks-indoors-universal-orlando-resort/

 

[sullyinMT]

Federal Highway Act, if a road is labeled an Interstate or a US Highway the feds mostly funded it, even some local streets too. Can’t travel to too many places and not at least intersect one of those roads.

All funds for said road are contingent on state’s mandating federal safety guidelines.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[GoofGoof]

Following up with a second report after a couple of more visits to the Walmart in a red area of FL that never had a mask mandate. I've now been there 4 times since Walmart changed the policy to only unvaccinated have to wear masks. On every visit I have seen noticeably higher mask wearing by customers and proper mask wearing by employees since the policy change than before the policy change.

I don't really have an explanation but it is possible that when given the option of vaccination or mask that people who are not fully vaccinated are more likely to comply than when it was a mandate from Walmart with only one option.

I’d have to go back several years to get to 4 trips to Walmart . I avoid that place like the plague but sometimes it’s a necessary evil.

It‘s possible but very unlikely that what you are suggesting is happening. I have not heard a single person in real life or online anywhere who said they didn’t wear a mask before but now that the rules changed they are wearing one. It is possible the employees are being policed more strictly. No idea what Walmart is telling managers.

 

[DisneyCane]

correct. Also the NTSB has some jurisdiction over all forms of transport

the government is “meshed”

and generally speaking - there’s really zero intelligent reason to argue such things.

and before I hear “state raaaaiiiights!!”...

the states putting bans on businesses/municipalities from requiring precautions or restrictions is perhaps the biggest example of government overreach in my lifetime.

but you won’t here that from those defending “freedom” so loudly they don’t stop to understand it...I bet

I don't think the NTSB has jurisdiction over anything. As far as I know, they can just make recommendations to other agencies and those agencies have to turn the recommendation into policy. That's definitely how it works for air transportation.

As far as I'm aware, no business is prohibited from requiring any precaution in any State. They are only being prevented from asking for health information as a requirement to get served by the business in some States. If a business required disclosure of any other type of health information to be served it would be illegal and they'd end up paying countless dollars in civil suits.

Imagine if Disney implemented a policy that women had to prove they weren't pregnant in order to be allowed to ride the rides where the warnings state that pregnant women shouldn't ride. I know it isn't exactly the same thing but the same legal basis applies.

 

[mikejs78]

As far as I'm aware, no business is prohibited from requiring any precaution in any State. They are only being prevented from asking for health information as a requirement to get served by the business in some States. If a business required disclosure of any other type of health information to be served it would be illegal and they'd end up paying countless dollars in civil suits.

That's absolutely false, the law in general does not say businesses cannot ask questions about health. It just says that any health data has to be protected. Requiring proof of other vaccination is a common thing in many businesses.

 

[DisneyCane]

I’d have to go back several years to get to 4 trips to Walmart . I avoid that place like the plague but sometimes it’s a necessary evil.

It‘s possible but very unlikely that what you are suggesting is happening. I have not heard a single person in real life or online anywhere who said they didn’t wear a mask before but now that the rules changed they are wearing one. It is possible the employees are being policed more strictly. No idea what Walmart is telling managers.

When you have to spend a few days in a smallish town, it becomes very necessary unless you want to pay gas station prices for snacks!

I'm not saying it is a fact that people who weren't masking before the policy change are doing so now but it is possible. All I have are pre and post observations in this area and it is noticeable.

Recently I was out in Big Sky Country and the Mid West and observed quite the opposite. My trip began before the policy changes at the major retailers. Before the change all of the employees at various stores were wearing masks and the overwhelming majority of customers. After the change, almost no employees were wearing masks and maybe 20% of customers. The fully vaccinated rate is certainly not 80% anywhere, let alone where I was.

 

[DisneyCane]

That's absolutely false, the law in general does not say businesses cannot ask questions about health. It just says that any health data has to be protected. Requiring proof of other vaccination is a common thing in many businesses.

For customers? What business (outside of Universities which mostly aren't businesses in that sense) that is not a healthcare provider requires proof of vaccinations or disclosure of any health information in order to get service?

 

[GoofGoof]

Imagine if Disney implemented a policy that women had to prove they weren't pregnant in order to be allowed to ride the rides where the warnings state that pregnant women shouldn't ride. I know it isn't exactly the same thing but the same legal basis applies.

Last I checked pregnancy wasn’t contagious

 

[DisneyCane]

Last I checked pregnancy wasn’t contagious

Can we say it is communicable?

I know it wasn't the perfect analogy but I was trying to avoid an example of Disney requiring proof that you aren't infected with a certain other communicable virus to avoid any possible discussion of that topic!