Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Jrb1979]

Outside of theme parks in FL that just dropped masks outdoors for everyone (not recommended by the CDC) most businesses didn’t drop masks completely. There’s a big difference between saying fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a mask and just dropping masks. The area where the most progress has been made is on the employer side. I’m seeing more and more businesses adopting the CDC policy and requiring people be vaccinated to drop the masks. If you are unvaccinated what’s a bigger incentive to get vaccinated: not having to wear a mask for 8+ hours a day while working or not having to wear a mask for 15 minutes while you run into Target for a few things? Clearly the bigger motivator is on the employer side and that appears to be working in a lot of cases.

On the second part, you are missing the point. There was a time here too where people were filling appointments non-stop. We figured out pretty easily how to handle that rush. We are in a new phase of the vaccine rollout where you have to pull in the hesitant and the people not rushing to get vaccinated. If people were still filling appointments non stop there would be no need for a strategy. There are states here where the vaccination rate is much higher than others. It is not helpful for Mississippi (lowest rate) to try to follow the plan used in Vermont (highest rate). Each state and even areas within each state need to address their own situation with different plans. One plan doesn‘t work for everyone. A plan to get inner city residents in Miami needs to be a lot different than the plan to get people in rural Mississippi or a plan to attract young adults anywhere.

The best strategy is all states follow the same thing Orange county is doing. Masks stay in place til 70% are vaccinated.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Outside of theme parks in FL that just dropped masks outdoors for everyone (not recommended by the CDC) most businesses didn’t drop masks completely. There’s a big difference between saying fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a mask and just dropping masks. The area where the most progress has been made is on the employer side. I’m seeing more and more businesses adopting the CDC policy and requiring people be vaccinated to drop the masks. If you are unvaccinated what’s a bigger incentive to get vaccinated: not having to wear a mask for 8+ hours a day while working or not having to wear a mask for 15 minutes while you run into Target for a few things? Clearly the bigger motivator is on the employer side and that appears to be working in a lot of cases.

On the second part, you are missing the point. There was a time here too where people were filling appointments non-stop. We figured out pretty easily how to handle that rush. We are in a new phase of the vaccine rollout where you have to pull in the hesitant and the people not rushing to get vaccinated. If people were still filling appointments non stop there would be no need for a strategy. There are states here where the vaccination rate is much higher than others. It is not helpful for Mississippi (lowest rate) to try to follow the plan used in Vermont (highest rate). Each state and even areas within each state need to address their own situation with different plans. One plan doesn‘t work for everyone. A plan to get inner city residents in Miami needs to be a lot different than the plan to get people in rural Mississippi or a plan to attract young adults anywhere.

I hate to be the bearer of “bad news”...cause it may not be 100% “bad”

but it’s Sunday, 5/23...
By this Friday - 5/28 - the mask mandate is essentially over on the whole. It will become a personal choice.
That’s money...from Pennsylvania Avenue all the way out....the consensus is “there’s money to be taken” and that’s what wins.

now...I’m not locking myself in the closet. I hope that all the “behind the scenes” confidence is there’s no way to get more spikes of significance even if nobody else gets vaccinated.

but it’s a matter of chance still to some degree.

it will probably be 115 degrees this summer anyway due to past stupidity...thereby eliminating most microscopic organisms
On the planet anyway

when’s HEA coming back?!?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The best strategy is all states follow the same thing Orange county is doing. Masks stay in place til 70% are vaccinated.

should have been at least 80%...but I agree.

 

[GoofGoof]

Lol...we are celebrating the public being treated like toddlers that complain more...

the “little society that could”

But hey...I want it all to be over/managed too. Tired of this. Tired of it being the first/second thing I think about pretty much everytime I walk out of the house.

hopefully a combination of nature and pharma is enough to do the trick?

florida...However...is still an embarrassment. Chronically dumb...with good weather.

Honestly, I’m done with the back and forth. I just want this to be over and go back to normal life and we are almost there. I see people on the extremes on both sides that I honestly think are upset this is coming to an end the way it is. They enjoy the fighting and arguing and enjoy putting down the people on the “other side”. People on both extremes are upset that this isn’t ending the way they wanted.

For the Covid denial crowd, we didn’t just give up on Covid restrictions and learn to live with the virus, we kept restrictions around long enough to get enough people vaccinated to see real positive impacts on cases. That bothers people since they didn’t “win”. On the flip side it bothers the other extreme that we are dropping restrictions without forcing everyone to be vaccinated. They want vaccine passports and more restrictions to punish the people left who aren’t vaccinated. Force them to admit get vaccinated which is an admission that Covid was a threat.

For the rest of us we are just happy this is ending. Would it be better if every eligible American got the vaccine? Sure, but that wasn’t going to happen. The goal from day 1 was to keep Covid mitigations around long enough to keep cases and hospitalizations down and avoid as many deaths as possible while we waited for the vaccines. The plan was always to roll back Covid mitigations gradually as cases came down and vaccine rate went up. This idea of a light switch where we wait for some final target to remove all restrictions at once makes no sense. We are getting to the point where the end of this is in sight. It doesn’t appear that we will need to get everyone or even 80% of eligible people vaccinated to get there. So I am celebrating any progress made towards getting the final people we probably need to get vaccinated. That’s all that matters to me. I don’t care how we get there at this point.

 

[Lilofan]

I hate to be the bearer of “bad news”...cause it may not be 100% “bad”

but it’s Sunday, 5/23...
By this Friday - 5/28 - the mask mandate is essentially over on the whole. It will become a personal choice.
That’s money...from Pennsylvania Avenue all the way out....the consensus is “there’s money to be taken” and that’s what wins.

now...I’m not locking myself in the closet. I hope that all the “behind the scenes” confidence is there’s no way to get more spikes of significance even if nobody else gets vaccinated.

but it’s a matter of chance still to some degree.

it will probably be 115 degrees this summer anyway due to past stupidity...thereby eliminating most microscopic organisms
On the planet anyway

when’s HEA coming back?!?

The mask mandate may come to an end but with a private business = their business their rules if a mask is required,, so in that aspect it is not a personal choice to wear one or not.

 

[GoofGoof]

The best strategy is all states follow the same thing Orange county is doing. Masks stay in place til 70% are vaccinated.

should have been at least 80%...but I agree.

Most states have not dropped mask mandates. FL and TX and some other red states did. Most are following the CDC guidance which again, is not the same as dropping masks mandates. I think we will see at the national level from the CDC that if by July 4 we reach 70% of adults vaccinated in the US and cases nationally continue to drop and get below 5 per 100K (ideally under 3) that the recommendation will be to drop all Covid restrictions including masks. So I think the plan is actually very similar to what you are suggesting.

 

[G00fyDad]

Remove masks outdoors when not in large crowds and require masks indoors if the person is not vaccinated. Ask for proof at the door and don't let them in if they have not been vaccinated and do not have a mask. (This is never going to happen of course because businesses would be putting their employees at risk of an entitled person flipping out on that employee.) Do this until the rate drops to the herd immunity level and then drop masks completely.

 

[Patcheslee]

Very true. Some of the new first shots are kids 12-15 but there also appears to be a small uptick in 18+ first shots. At a minimum we are seeing a plateau in rate of first shots. It’s a good sign since the plateau appears to be several hundred thousand shots above the daily average needed to reach 70% of adults with 1 shot by July 4. If this rate holds for the next few weeks we should have no problem hitting that target. Even if it drops off again we still have a pretty good shot of hitting it. I think this small uptick may have something to do with the CDC guidance and employers enforcing them. Some states are also ramping up programs to increase shots. Things like lotteries, targeted vaccine clinics and PR campaigns are probably also helping some. Whatever the cause it’s a positive development to see the curve stop declining.

I wonder if some parents chose to hold on their 16/17yo shots until 12-15 siblings could go as well and avoid less trips or time off.
Heck I get flu shot yearly but don't go to the work clinic cause kid use to be terrified of shots. Promise was if she got the flu shot, I'd get one with her.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I wonder if some parents chose to hold on their 16/17yo shots until 12-15 siblings could go as well and avoid less trips or time off.
Heck I get flu shot yearly but don't go to the work clinic cause kid use to be terrified of shots. Promise was if she got the flu shot, I'd get one with her.

My boys are both autistic...explaining to my 10-year-old that the shots aren't ready for him yet almost every day isn't fun. (His 15-year-old brother is getting his 2nd dose in 2 weeks.)

 

[Starcrane]

Very true. Some of the new first shots are kids 12-15 but there also appears to be a small uptick in 18+ first shots. At a minimum we are seeing a plateau in rate of first shots. It’s a good sign since the plateau appears to be several hundred thousand shots above the daily average needed to reach 70% of adults with 1 shot by July 4. If this rate holds for the next few weeks we should have no problem hitting that target. Even if it drops off again we still have a pretty good shot of hitting it. I think this small uptick may have something to do with the CDC guidance and employers enforcing them. Some states are also ramping up programs to increase shots. Things like lotteries, targeted vaccine clinics and PR campaigns are probably also helping some. Whatever the cause it’s a positive development to see the curve stop declining.

fact that many universities are requiring students and staff to get vaccinated before Fall was HUGE!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly, I’m done with the back and forth. I just want this to be over and go back to normal life and we are almost there. I see people on the extremes on both sides that I honestly think are upset this is coming to an end the way it is. They enjoy the fighting and arguing and enjoy putting down the people on the “other side”. People on both extremes are upset that this isn’t ending the way they wanted.

For the Covid denial crowd, we didn’t just give up on Covid restrictions and learn to live with the virus, we kept restrictions around long enough to get enough people vaccinated to see real positive impacts on cases. That bothers people since they didn’t “win”. On the flip side it bothers the other extreme that we are dropping restrictions without forcing everyone to be vaccinated. They want vaccine passports and more restrictions to punish the people left who aren’t vaccinated. Force them to admit get vaccinated which is an admission that Covid was a threat.

For the rest of us we are just happy this is ending. Would it be better if every eligible American got the vaccine? Sure, but that wasn’t going to happen. The goal from day 1 was to keep Covid mitigations around long enough to keep cases and hospitalizations down and avoid as many deaths as possible while we waited for the vaccines. The plan was always to roll back Covid mitigations gradually as cases came down and vaccine rate went up. This idea of a light switch where we wait for some final target to remove all restrictions at once makes no sense. We are getting to the point where the end of this is in sight. It doesn’t appear that we will need to get everyone or even 80% of eligible people vaccinated to get there. So I am celebrating any progress made towards getting the final people we probably need to get vaccinated. That’s all that matters to me. I don’t care how we get there at this point.

Honestly...if you’re done with the back and forth...skip the “back” and I’ll skip the “forth”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My boys are both autistic...explaining to my 10-year-old that the shots aren't ready for him yet almost every day isn't fun. (His 15-year-old brother is getting his 2nd dose in 2 weeks.)

I hope the reports are true and they are using the 12-15 data for Pfizer to fast track the under 12 authorization. Should be 7/4 give or take...I hope

 

[GoofGoof]

Remove masks outdoors when not in large crowds and require masks indoors if the person is not vaccinated. Ask for proof at the door and don't let them in if they have not been vaccinated and do not have a mask. (This is never going to happen of course because businesses would be putting their employees at risk of an entitled person flipping out on that employee.) Do this until the rate drops to the herd immunity level and then drop masks completely.

I think this would have been a good plan but like you said the problem is the government is putting it on businesses to be the enforcers of these rules which won’t happen. Instead we got this hybrid approach where we dropped masks only for fully vaccinated people and most businesses just put in the honor system for customers. I still feel that the biggest area of common exposure for most people is at work not during leisure activities or while shopping in a store. People spend way more hours working then they do any other public place. Even Disney hasn’t dropped outdoor masks for CMs. Many other businesses are dropping masks only for the vaccinated workers.

On the herd immunity front, nobody knows for sure when that will be. Similar to the end of an economic recession we won’t know that we reached herd immunity until months later. I don’t know if the 70% target is their best attempt to get to a level they think it will be good enough for herd immunity or if they will continue beyond that vaccination level. I guess we will see in a little over a month.

 

[Chi84]

Honestly, I’m done with the back and forth. I just want this to be over and go back to normal life and we are almost there. I see people on the extremes on both sides that I honestly think are upset this is coming to an end the way it is. They enjoy the fighting and arguing and enjoy putting down the people on the “other side”. People on both extremes are upset that this isn’t ending the way they wanted.

For the Covid denial crowd, we didn’t just give up on Covid restrictions and learn to live with the virus, we kept restrictions around long enough to get enough people vaccinated to see real positive impacts on cases. That bothers people since they didn’t “win”. On the flip side it bothers the other extreme that we are dropping restrictions without forcing everyone to be vaccinated. They want vaccine passports and more restrictions to punish the people left who aren’t vaccinated. Force them to admit get vaccinated which is an admission that Covid was a threat.

For the rest of us we are just happy this is ending. Would it be better if every eligible American got the vaccine? Sure, but that wasn’t going to happen. The goal from day 1 was to keep Covid mitigations around long enough to keep cases and hospitalizations down and avoid as many deaths as possible while we waited for the vaccines. The plan was always to roll back Covid mitigations gradually as cases came down and vaccine rate went up. This idea of a light switch where we wait for some final target to remove all restrictions at once makes no sense. We are getting to the point where the end of this is in sight. It doesn’t appear that we will need to get everyone or even 80% of eligible people vaccinated to get there. So I am celebrating any progress made towards getting the final people we probably need to get vaccinated. That’s all that matters to me. I don’t care how we get there at this point.

Very well-said. I noticed that at our local grocery store, the employees not wearing masks - including a manager and our cashier - were older. We saw the same thing at a restaurant last night (Carmine's in Rosemont for @dreday3). I assumed they were the ones fully vaccinated, while the younger employees still hadn't gotten around to it. Our server told us that by the next time we came in, there would probably be no masks. There's no question that being able to ditch the masks is a motivator for younger employees who are not all that concerned about COVID. And since employees have closer and more prolonged contact with each other than with customers, getting them vaccinated will have a greater impact than requiring customers to wear masks.

As far as people "flipping out," that's something you see more on social media than in everyday life. Since the CDC's new guidelines, we have been to a couple of restaurants and several stores. Policies varied, and people adjusted. I didn't wear a mask at a grocery store where it was no longer required, but almost all of the other shoppers still wore them. If anyone thought anything one way or the other, they kept it to themselves. If someone had said anything to me, I would have just told them to see a store manager (hopefully the one not wearing a mask) - there's no need for drama.

People have had it drilled into their heads for the last year and a half that they need to wear masks to protect each other. Handing off that responsibility to the much better-equipped vaccines is going to take some time. In the meantime, I think we would be better served by being respectful to one another instead of assuming that people are either not smart enough to "trust the vaccine" or are lying about their vaccination status.

 

[GoofGoof]

Honestly...if you’re done with the back and forth...skip the “back” and I’ll skip the “forth”

I stopped with the back and the forth a while back. Wasn’t that pretty obvious. I was one of the most critical people here about people’s inability to just shut up and follow simple rules. Back before we had a vaccine all we had were Covid mitigations. As I started to say around January or February timeframe it’s vaccine or bust for us. People were not going to change and we were going to do this the hard way. Fortunately for us the vaccine rollout was nearly flawless (JnJ issues aside) and we are approaching the end despite the people who fought this all the way.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this would have been a good plan but like you said the problem is the government is putting it on businesses to be the enforcers of these rules which won’t happen. Instead we got this hybrid approach where we dropped masks only for fully vaccinated people and most businesses just put in the honor system for customers. I still feel that the biggest area of common exposure for most people is at work not during leisure activities or while shopping in a store. People spend way more hours working then they do any other public place. Even Disney hasn’t dropped outdoor masks for CMs. Many other businesses are dropping masks only for the vaccinated workers.

On the herd immunity front, nobody knows for sure when that will be. Similar to the end of an economic recession we won’t know that we reached herd immunity until months later. I don’t know if the 70% target is their best attempt to get to a level they think it will be good enough for herd immunity or if they will continue beyond that vaccination level. I guess we will see in a little over a month.

This is what I mean by “back”

either you’re done...or you want to throw shade at the government and make excuses for the people? That fence post is gonna start to chaffe...

we’re all guilty of this. But luckily it appears we only have a couple months of this left...hopefully less?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And right on queue...here comes the “backup” on “I don’t care...but I’m gonna keep saying the same opinion”

time to get some fresh air

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I stopped with the back and the forth a while back. Wasn’t that pretty obvious. I was one of the most critical people here about people’s inability to just shut up and follow simple rules. Back before we had a vaccine all we had were Covid mitigations. As I started to say around January or February timeframe it’s vaccine or bust for us. People were not going to change and we were going to do this the hard way. Fortunately for us the vaccine rollout was nearly flawless (JnJ issues aside) and we are approaching the end despite the people who fought this all the way.

“stopping” doesn’t involve 3 paragraph response laced with opinions...generally speaking.

this is like Kathy Kennedy’s job at this point...we should just let it play out. The end is near

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I hope the reports are true and they are using the 12-15 data for Pfizer to fast track the under 12 authorization. Should be 7/4 give or take...I hope

I hope so, too. My youngest doesn't like shots, but he really wants to get this vaccine, which is fabulous.

 

[GoofGoof]

“stopping” doesn’t involve 3 paragraph response laced with opinions...generally speaking.

this is like Kathy Kennedy’s job at this point...we should just let it play out. The end is near

I didn’t stay I was going to stop posting. I said I had given up on the back and forth between people who oppose all Covid restrictions and people who want them to continue indefinitely. It’s vaccine or bust and thankfully the vaccines are working and it looks like we will get enough people in to reach the finish line. That’s something to celebrate even if we got there the hard way.