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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

Think Tink

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
I look at it this way. There is nothing at all stopping anyone from choosing to continue to mask up for their entire day in the park. They were still requiring masks in any indoor location, including restaurants, shops and indoor rides. CDC guidelines state masks are not necessary outdoors. I have been fully vaccinated now since April 9, which means my 2 weeks were up on April 23.

Nobody is forcing anybody to go spend a day at Kings Island. If you aren't comfortable with it, it's not an essential service and you don't have to go. But things like sanitizing seats every 30 minutes and spacing out in every other row were nothing more than hygiene theater, and I'm glad Cedar Fair got rid of it. Had I not been vaccinated, it was admittedly quite crowded yesterday and the maskless crowds in lines would have had me masked up and/or not comfortable to be there. But I trust the science that states it's virtually impossible for me to catch or transmit COVID-19 at this stage of my vaccination. That's a risk I am willing to take. And damn did it feel good to feel the cold Ohio air on rides and congregate with a group of fully vaccinated friends and enjoy the day without worrying about masks or distancing. It took me all of one minute to have it feel normal again.
I was at the Cleveland Zoo yesterday and it was optional there, I’d say it was 50/50 split but I totally get what you mean wanting to feel more normal again. Like I said, I know that I’m a bad person to ask because Of my personal issues. I’m slowly working toward being normal again and have been able to hang out with friends and family which has been amazing!
 

Think Tink

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
I'd be curious how many people have become germaphobe's because of the pandemic.
I can name a few friends of mine including my husband. I’ve always been someone who would give dirty looks at people who came to work sick and would shut my office door. I used to Clorox my desk every day and had bloody hands from over washing. Then 2020 came and I became a literal hermit 😂 Therapy has been good for me. I am actually handling things better than some of my friends now. Finally dipping my toe into society again.
 

jlhwdw

Well-Known Member
I fully understand I am an outlier in the sense that I was able to "turn off" the switch in my brain yesterday and feel totally fine in a giant crowd that was predominately maskless. Many can't do that and I fully get it. I'm fully supportive of anyone that wants to wear a mask indefinitely to be able to do it. And if for whatever reason I wasn't fully vaccinated, you can bet I'd have been masked all day and likely left mid afternoon when crowds prohibited distancing out on the midways.

I'm pro vaccine and pro science and I trust both. Which is why I am comfortable being back to normal in my life. We're not there yet. But sometime this summer it will be time to pull of the band aid and let the chips fall as they will. Again, we're not there yet. But we are close. At some point it's personal responsibility.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I can name a few friends of mine including my husband. I’ve always been someone who would give dirty looks at people who came to work sick and would shut my office door. I used to Clorox my desk every day and had bloody hands from over washing. Then 2020 came and I became a literal hermit 😂 Therapy has been good for me. I am actually handling things better than some of my friends now. Finally dipping my toe into society again.
I know I'm much more aware of them.

My youngest has taken hand-washing to a not-great level...he's had chapped hands off and on for the last year. I think I've finally got some stuff that will protect them better.
 

Think Tink

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
I know I'm much more aware of them.

My youngest has taken hand-washing to a not-great level...he's had chapped hands off and on for the last year. I think I've finally got some stuff that will protect them better.
I can feel his hand pain. OKeefs is great for me, but lately I haven’t needed it much fortunately :) Hopefully as the humidity and weather improves the chapping will go away.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
I can feel his hand pain. OKeefs is great for me, but lately I haven’t needed it much fortunately :) Hopefully as the humidity and weather improves the chapping will go away.
Yup! I got Avon Silicone Glove...I used to use it when I was painting with oil-based paint because they protect your skin so much the paint would just wash off with soap and water at the end of the day. Should do the trick!
 

Tom P.

Well-Known Member
Not what the new After Hours event is saying. But again that could be PR not aware of current health guidance
Disney is going to say in announcements today what the rules are as of today. For them to say anything else would be essentially them saying that, "hey, by X date, we are guaranteeing you that mitigation measures are no longer going to be required."

But the fact that they say that today in no way indicates they are expecting those mitigation measures to still be in place by the time of those events. I think Disney has every expectation of relaxing measures sometime during the summer. But it's a lot easier for them to come out later and say, "hey, based on how well the country is doing, you don't have to mask up" than it is to come out later and say, "hey, forget what we said before, things are going badly and we're gonna have to ask you to wear a mask again."
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Apparently not without upsetting some. People are completely triggered and highly agitated that Joe Biden still wears a mask in public.
It's a matter of messaging.

First, it sends a signal that CDC guidelines are not to be trusted, that the vaccine is not to be trusted, that nothing is going to change if I get vaccinated.

Worse, it gives off the impression that President Biden wants to wear masks forever. Most people want to stop wearing masks as soon as possible. You might say, "Everybody does." Sorry, this is not true. I agree with the several recent articles published in liberal news media. There's a cult that views masks as a badge of honor. (See Joy Reid.)

His message appeals to his base, which would be great if his base was the one not getting vaccinated. Instead, his needless mask wearing is only appealing to those who have already been vaccinated.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Disney is going to say in announcements today what the rules are as of today. For them to say anything else would be essentially them saying that, "hey, by X date, we are guaranteeing you that mitigation measures are no longer going to be required."

But the fact that they say that today in no way indicates they are expecting those mitigation measures to still be in place by the time of those events. I think Disney has every expectation of relaxing measures sometime during the summer. But it's a lot easier for them to come out later and say, "hey, based on how well the country is doing, you don't have to mask up" than it is to come out later and say, "hey, forget what we said before, things are going badly and we're gonna have to ask you to wear a mask again."
This is why I worry when places are going from full masks to zero masks so quickly. If (GOD FORBID) something happens that makes us need to mask up again, I think there are going to be A LOT of people who just won't. I really think nuance is needed.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Oklahoma today - no masks anywhere I stopped
Our governor is easing us out of them up here in MA. Our county is still at 13 new daily cases per 100,000.

ETA: Our county currently has higher daily cases than the three counties that have the most dense populations in the state. BUT...we lagged behind those counties in a huge way at the beginning of the pandemic.
 

Chomama

Well-Known Member
What is your reasoning to think it isn't quite enough? As your next door neighbor, we have virtually the same statistics. MS has been maskless since March 3 and lifted all restrictions on April 30. Surely we would have had a rebound by now. Our cases numbers are flat, not going down but definitely not going up. I expect the same for AL.

Speaking of children, my son has been in-person school the entire school year. Yes, there have been cases of Covid and my son has been quarantined due to close contact. But I do not know or have heard of any <17 y.o. with a severe case. Not saying that doesn't happen and we are lucky. But we are continuously bombarded with the news articles of "may", "can", "multiple cases" but no quantification of the real risk level. In backwater MS, my son has a 0.02% chance of contracting Covid AND admitted to the hospital (this is my definition of a severe case). And he has a 0.0004% chance of contracting Covid AND dying. And yes, every one of those 3 deaths is tragic. But considering these odds, I completely understand the vaccine hesitancy that parents have for their kids. I lose sleep worrying about my son driving, not Covid. That was the case even before he got vaccinated.
Just speaking with friends that are ID docs at our biggest teaching hospital. They all expect another wave. I, of course, hope they are wrong. Their explanation is that our decrease has a lot to do with seasonality - they THINK. But their main point is that we haven’t done a good job figuring out why these waves occur and seasonality is their best guess.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Although I agree with your general premise, it’s more complicated than that.

People also have a "right" not to be controlled by the government. If you are worried about others wearing masks, they would argue, then "stay home." (I do not agree with this - I'm just stating a contrarian position.)

At some point, my "rights" impinge on yours, and at some point, your "rights" impinge on mine. The reality is that democracy is about balancing everyone's rights.

Several of us on this thread have discussed a threshold, a threshold at which the "right" to not wear a mask outweighs the "right" to reduce the spread of COVID. (Or however else you want to phrase this.)

I've suggested this threshold is at about 200 deaths per day, which would be slightly worse than the worst year of influenza deaths. Others have suggested 150 to 100 deaths per day, which would be closer to the average number of influenza deaths per year. We can do this because we are not politicians and don't have to worry about the fallout of suggesting that a certain level of death is tolerable.

I'm sure Dr. Fauci has a number of deaths in mind, even if he is unwilling to state it publicly.

Still, politicians do this all the time, even if they don't discuss it so bluntly. What's the acceptable level of death from influenza? From auto accidents? From gun violence? From smoking? Politicians have to balance various "rights" and, depending on their political persuasion, that balancing point is different.

Thus, your statement:

your "right" to not wear a mask upon entering the public square (indoors) is trumped by the rest of the folks' right to life (either directly, person to person, or societally, by spreading and lengthening the pandemic.)​

Is not absolute.

As I previously wrote, all "rights" have limits. It's a basic tenet of our democracy. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is not absolute. Rather, it's about balancing these when they come into conflict we each other, and balancing them against the greater good. (Remember, our government recognizes instances where all rights can be forfeit.) We look to our politicians (and to the courts) to define these limits, to perform this balancing act.

If someone suggests that your statement applies until, let's say, there is less than one COVID death per day (i.e. 365 per year), then I would say they have taken an extreme position. Conversely, with over 600 COVID related deaths per day (more than 200,000 per year), I don't see a lot of people on this thread trying to defend that 200,000 deaths per year is acceptable.

Since we are just having a discussion, what is your limit? Where do you define this threshold? (And I don't mean @Tony the Tigger, I mean everyone reading this.) At what point does a person's "right" to not wear a mask supersede another person's "right" to be protected from the spread of COVID?

I am so not interested in laypeoples' opinions. I deal with experts and laws, not people who don't feel like doing something, or who act against their own interests. If it needs to go to court, so be it.

We are nowhere near whatever threshold needs to be reached, it's not even worth discussing yet.

These are unique circumstances. It's not a flu, it's not smoking. It has the potential to wipe out millions in a year, left unchecked.

It's the ones who don't want to follow what's best for society who should stay home if they can't handle masking.

When we look like Israel, we can have the hysterical "where does it all end" argument.

Some folks are lucky they wouldn't recognize what a real loss of rights looks like.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
I'm not choosing comfort over somebody else's safety. I'm choosing to visit a location that DOES NOT require a mask.

I don't know why people focus on the rules of humans instead of the parameters set by the virus. Not wearing a mask is not getting away with anything, it's just potentially subjecting people to the virus, which doesn't care about societal rules or freedom.
 

Chi84

Premium Member

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member

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