Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

There was nothing political in what I said. None. I didn't even identify which posters or what side of debates I was referring to, because it's a wide swath of this thread that encompasses both sides. But if it makes you feel any better, I can't stand Donald Trump and I am fully vaccinated.

I am referring to the attitude displayed by people in this thread. Again, on both sides. The attitude that a handful of posters here are some of the smartest on the planet, and that the rest people are rubes who just can't see with such wisdom. I see it from certain posters here who are both pro-vax and anti-vax. The arrogance and condescension is absolutely overwhelming. And when pointed out, the retort is (unironically) that well those poor, uneducated, dimwitted people deserve the arrogance and condescension and if they'd just stop being so stupid, we'd stop.

Blame Trump. Blame Biden. Blame Fauci. Blame Oscar the Grouch. I don't know what the root cause. But I know there are a lot of people who are absolute jerks to one another in this thread.

Oscar the Grouch sorta has it coming...as long as nobody blames Goofy

 

[DisneyFan32]

OMG, take a look at EarthCam's Time Square 4K live there was too many people are crowding tonight, as there will be might huge COVID-19 spike, is the a lots people are vaccinated already? @GoofGoof @ImperfectPixie:

 

[GoofGoof]

Those are only good with Jolly Ranchers. Maybe you need a little more sugar?

Ahhh...high school in the 90s. I’m pretty sure Zima’s sales were 95% to kids under 21.

 

[Touchdown]

The one thing from over a year of this thread that astounds me more than anything is just how many people here think they are so, so much smarter than the average, ignorant American and look down their noses at their fellow citizens. The amount of arrogant elitism in this one thread on a Disney forum is just astonishing.

Well I hate to point this out to you but, WDW is a rather expensive destination. It’s very hard for a family making 78,500 to justify a trip down there, let alone multiple ones. 78,500 is the median household income in the US, so by definition if you are making more than that you are making more than half the US population. While income is not exactly a direct correlation with intelligence it’s a pretty close analog. Ergo, you can assume, that people who go to WDW are probably, on average, smarter than the average American.

 

[SamusAranX]

Let me preface this by saying that, again, I agree with you about the vaccine. I am fully vaccinated. I actively encourage people to get vaccinated. I believe the vaccines are both safe and effective. So there is no disagreement there.

But I also can understand how reasonable, intelligent people who do not buy into "conspiracy theories" can have doubts. The simple fact is that these vaccines were developed, produced, and distributed faster than any in the history of vaccines. One year ago, all of the public health experts were warning the public to be patient and have reasonable expectations because to have a vaccine by the end of the year would be unprecedented and nearly a miracle.

And, yes, I understand how they were able to do it so fast. I understand all the reasons from the years of research into mRNA to the financial backing of the government that took away the financial risks of ramping up production during the clinical trials. I get it. That's why I personally took the vaccine and trust it. But I do not think it is unreasonable for someone to have heard the drumbeat of how long it will take for us to have a vaccine to now be hesitant and think that perhaps something was done too quickly. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to have doubts and questions.

Thank you, you stated it much more succinctly then i could. I was the exact person described; nervous cause it seemed fast and mRNA vax tech is relatively "new"; but once I researched and spoke with people, I made the jump. I am happy I did, my second dose day of "Moderna-risery" aside

 

[disneygeek90]

My problem with the vaccine hesitancy is no one can really give a reason other than they don’t “trust” and it was distributed “too fast” and other conspiracy theories that aren’t remotely accurate.

That’s not reasons. The people that are responsible for that vaccine are a million times smarter in that field than the average person, and definitely has more knowledge about it than I ever will. It’s almost arrogant, imo, to believe that you know “something” about these vaccines that the medical professionals themselves don’t.

Hint: you don’t.

 

[ABQ]

OMG, take a look at EarthCam's Time Square 4K live there was too many people are crowding tonight, as there will be might huge COVID-19 spike, is the a lots people are vaccinated already? @GoofGoof @ImperfectPixie:

Wow, looks like NY is fully open, don't tell those who said it won't happen.

 

[SamusAranX]

Oscar the Grouch sorta has it coming...as long as nobody blames Goofy

I actually blame @Parker in NYC for starting this thread and you for perpetuating it with you continued posting

 

[GoofGoof]

I actually blame @Parker in NYC for starting this thread and you for perpetuating it with you continued posting

I didn’t start the fire....just threw some branches in.

 

[SamusAranX]

My problem with the vaccine hesitancy is no one can really give a reason other than they don’t “trust” and it was distributed “too fast” and other conspiracy theories that aren’t remotely accurate.

That’s not reasons. The people that are responsible for that vaccine are a million times smarter in that field than the average person, and definitely has more knowledge about it than I ever will. It’s almost arrogant, imo, to believe that you know “something” about these vaccines that the medical professionals themselves don’t.

Hint: you don’t.

Too fast isn't a conspiracy theory. Again, remember the initial messaging was having a vaccine by end of 2020 was unrealistic and shouldn't be counted on.

now if someone says "they rushed it so they could elect [insert name here]" or "because the virus was manmade it was so easy to make", then yeah, they're venturing in cuckoo for cocoa puff realm.

 

[GoofGoof]

Well I hate to point this out to you but, WDW is a rather expensive destination. It’s very hard for a family making 78,500 to justify a trip down there, let alone multiple ones. 78,500 is the median household income in the US, so by definition if you are making more than that you are making more than half the US population. While income is not exactly a direct correlation with intelligence it’s a pretty close analog. Ergo, you can assume, that people who go to WDW are probably, on average, smarter than the average American.

Some might argue that spending what it costs to go to WDW on a vacation makes you dumber than the average American

They would be wrong of course...but it’s a free country so anyone can say anything they want.

 

[SamusAranX]

Some might argue that spending what it costs to go to WDW on a vacation makes you dumber than the average American

They would be wrong of course...but it’s a free country so anyone can say anything they want.

That and unfortunately people will rack up debt just to take expensive vacations. I do it the fun way, saving all year for my snowboarding trip,

 

[Heppenheimer]

My problem with the vaccine hesitancy is no one can really give a reason other than they don’t “trust” and it was distributed “too fast” and other conspiracy theories that aren’t remotely accurate.

That’s not reasons. The people that are responsible for that vaccine are a million times smarter in that field than the average person, and definitely has more knowledge about it than I ever will. It’s almost arrogant, imo, to believe that you know “something” about these vaccines that the medical professionals themselves don’t.

Hint: you don’t.

I heard one of the worst excuses the other day. "I don't want it because the government's pushing it."

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The one thing from over a year of this thread that astounds me more than anything is just how many people here think they are so, so much smarter than the average, ignorant American and look down their noses at their fellow citizens. The amount of arrogant elitism in this one thread on a Disney forum is just astonishing.

Now I know the 90’s were awhile ago...but this sure sounds like those “bells”

perhaps unintentionally...but it is a certain narrative.

 

[disneygeek90]

Too fast isn't a conspiracy theory. Again, remember the initial messaging was having a vaccine by end of 2020 was unrealistic and shouldn't be counted on.

now if someone says "they rushed it so they could elect [insert name here]" or "because the virus was manmade it was so easy to make", then yeah, they're venturing in cuckoo for cocoa puff realm.

Nope, I didn’t say too fast was a conspiracy. But, it has no real logic to it.

Conspiracy I was referring to was infertility issues etc.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let me preface this by saying that, again, I agree with you about the vaccine. I am fully vaccinated. I actively encourage people to get vaccinated. I believe the vaccines are both safe and effective. So there is no disagreement there.

But I also can understand how reasonable, intelligent people who do not buy into "conspiracy theories" can have doubts. The simple fact is that these vaccines were developed, produced, and distributed faster than any in the history of vaccines. One year ago, all of the public health experts were warning the public to be patient and have reasonable expectations because to have a vaccine by the end of the year would be unprecedented and nearly a miracle.

And, yes, I understand how they were able to do it so fast. I understand all the reasons from the years of research into mRNA to the financial backing of the government that took away the financial risks of ramping up production during the clinical trials. I get it. That's why I personally took the vaccine and trust it. But I do not think it is unreasonable for someone to have heard the drumbeat of how long it will take for us to have a vaccine to now be hesitant and think that perhaps something was done too quickly. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to have doubts and questions.

When it comes to a rate of incidence there is a point where questioning goes from reasonable to unreasonable.

There are people who are afraid to fly but we now rightly recognize that as an irrational fear. That was not always the case. Flying used to be more dangerous and before people were flying we didn’t know how it would impact the human body.

Not wanting to walk alone through a neighborhood known as dangerous is reasonable if there really is a lot of crime. But if it has been years since it had more crime than most other places, or even where you live, then questioning the safety of the neighborhood is no longer reasonable. But what if the neighbor never actually had more crime and the idea that it did was originally pushed by someone who was bigoted against the residents? Questioning the safety of a neighborhood isn’t itself irrational so people who just hear that this one is dangerous might just accept it. It’s something plausible and it’s an odd thing to just make up, so people believe it and they might repeat it, or at least not question it when others say it. Wouldn’t you want people to know its not a dangerous place and the whole thing was started by a bad actor?

At some point the hesitancy regarding the COVID-19 vaccines goes from reasonable to unreasonable. I say that point has largely passed. If someone is still concerned about something like safety then what is their threshold? Why is over 100 million doses insufficient sampling? What is the plausible mechanism by which a long-term issue could be triggered? That people don’t have answers for this criteria means their concern is no longer rational, because seemingly no amount of data will be satisfactory.

 

[correcaminos]

Why do you consider it the binary of pro vax/ anti vax? Does there not exist and additional subset of skeptical vax? or is discussion not allowed?

End result is binary. You are either for getting vaccination sor not. Feelings are not really important here. It is an A or B choice in the end.

Those who are hesitant I try to meet in the middle and discuss. That's not horrible at all to be that way if you are willing to listen to facts. Often hesitant repeat incorrect info and just need the push.

One friend was hesitant even as a nurse because it was emotional. Her husband died of covid in Dec of last year. It was tough to get over all that and get it. I effectively held her hand and was willing to in person if needed. You have to meet people where they are, but the result if they say no, they are anti-vax.

they are not giving a thing away to any DVC. That would be one of the more shocking developments ever.

and a price point is difficult for Disney. They’re required to adhere to their current corporate “value” structure...while needing the public to actively participate in controlling themselves by picking how much they’ll pay?

a bit nuts...isn’t it?

Eh they can build it into MFs like they did for ME.

I'll be honest and kinda wish I had spaced out the early vaccinations a couple days only because DD had a horrific reaction to one and we ended up in the hospital. They could only narrow it down to 2 of 4 vaccines given that day in her thighs. Then when next round of vaccinations came they switched so the 2 possible wouldn't be in the same legs so they could identify which caused the problem, but she didn't have any reactions afterwards. I wonder if there has ever been a study on how many parents choose not to vaccinate or delay due to reactions they or their children have had vs general "research".

I get that, and I understand needing to delay or skip vaccines due to the reactions. I think those types are few and far between (delay due to reactions) due to the number of vaccine reactions out there. We actually are skipping vaccines for one cat due to a horrible reaction he had. Given his cognitive disability risking a high fever again is not wise. That's not "research" at least, but valid reasons.

Given how infrequent reactions are, we followed protocol that our pediatrician set out. They really aren't into delaying unless there are known family reactions which I was cool with.

As for hesitancy in general, being in a family full of marginalized, we get medical hesitancy. You want to know who usually has the worst outcomes? So it's understandable. Again we need to meet in the middle and talk.

The one thing from over a year of this thread that astounds me more than anything is just how many people here think they are so, so much smarter than the average, ignorant American and look down their noses at their fellow citizens. The amount of arrogant elitism in this one thread on a Disney forum is just astonishing.

Isn't your post just as arrogant sounding? Just sayin'

Regular zima or zima gold?

There are some days I wonder how I drank that stuff in high school. Yuck!

Nope, I didn’t say too fast was a conspiracy. But, it has no real logic to it.

Conspiracy I was referring to was infertility issues etc.

I had a friend get mad at me for saying sharing consipracies is not helpful. They want the pandemic to end but to question that conspiracy angered them for some reason.

 

[GoofGoof]

Too fast isn't a conspiracy theory. Again, remember the initial messaging was having a vaccine by end of 2020 was unrealistic and shouldn't be counted on.

now if someone says "they rushed it so they could elect [insert name here]" or "because the virus was manmade it was so easy to make", then yeah, they're venturing in cuckoo for cocoa puff realm.

It’s not a conspiracy theory, but it’s parroting a talking point. How many people who feel the vaccine was rushed knew how long a vaccine takes to develop before the Covid vaccine? How many work at a pharmaceutical company and know the actual process? How many people who think it was rushed can point to any one step in the process that was done too quickly or where corners were cut for safety? In my experience most of those people read an article which said that vaccines take years to develop.

If you remember back to last Summer one of the primary narratives of the “drop all Covid restrictions now“ crowd was it will take years to develop a vaccine so we should just learn to live with the virus now because we can’t live like this for years. That’s where the idea was born that the vaccines were rushed and a lot of the people who say they won’t take the vaccine are from that crowd. Just because something is done faster than historical precedent doesn’t mean it was rushed and therefore flawed. I haven’t seen any articles, expert options or other suggestions that there is a specific problem with the vaccines due to the speed they were developed. Nothing. If there was an issue due to being rushed wouldnt we know by now? That fear may have been more warranted in December. Now that over a billion people have taken the vaccines its time to move on from that.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I actually blame @Parker in NYC for starting this thread and you for perpetuating it with you continued posting

 

[DCBaker]