Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mickeymiss]

I have issues with germs and can't pretend I don't enjoy not having people right up on me in line. I'm willing to bet $100 that my husband caught his cold a couple years ago from standing close to people in those long indoor lines. If someone coughs or sneezes, it has a lot of opportunity. I don't advocate imposing rules forever based on anxious people but we have had to do this for over a year. It's hard for some people who have become more anxious since covid to keep up with the revolving door of changes. I'd like to go slow.

 

[JoeCamel]

I would not want to be sneezed on regardless but could really care less now that I am vaccinated.

Just my luck to sit behind someone with the flu now that I am not concerned with getting covid. Bugs gonna get you no matter what

 

[JoeCamel]

I have issues with germs and can't pretend I don't enjoy not having people right up on me in line. I'm willing to bet $100 that my husband caught his cold a couple years ago from standing close to people in those long indoor lines. If someone coughs or sneezes, it has a lot of opportunity. I don't advocate imposing rules forever based on anxious people but we have had to do this for over a year. It's hard for some people who have become more anxious since covid to keep up with the revolving door of changes. I'd like to go slow.

How about if I wear a mask and hang away and others do whatever floats their boat once this is at manageable levels? If I choose to mask please don't sneeze on me, I might be a transplant recipient.

 

[GaBoy]

I've only had my first dose. 2nd one is due mid-May. And I'm not used to the idea of being partially protected yet, lol.

Yes to me vaccinated means fully vaccinated. I work in an essential industry So I had to spend the past year interacting with a lot of people. I have been quarantined 3 times. I have had most of the people around me quarantine and about half sick. I have not been to Disney where I don't come home with something and I assume that is part of being around a large crowd. My perspective has been shaped over the past year by necessity. I never had the opportunity to isolate.

 

[disneygeek90]

I remember universal was not requiring masks on water rides. I assume they changed that, right?

Masks are still not required at Universal water rides. I rode Jurassic park yesterday. It's every other row, masks off if you want, which is nearly everyone.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Yes to me vaccinated means fully vaccinated. I work in an essential industry So I had to spend the past year interacting with a lot of people. I have been quarantined 3 times. I have had most of the people around me quarantine and about half sick. I have not been to Disney where I don't come home with something and I assume that is part of being around a large crowd. My perspective has been shaped over the past year by necessity. I never had the opportunity to isolate.

My husband hasn't, either. He installs floors, so aside from the 2 1/2 months he was laid off at the beginning of the lock-down, he's been in and out of people's houses, apartments, and businesses the entire time. He's had to tell people to keep their distance more often than not, and people don't want to wear a mask in their own home even just for a few minutes while they interact with him.

We had ONE scare...he got sick and gave it to me...we had him tested and he (and I) stayed home until it came back negative.

 

[mickeymiss]

How about if I wear a mask and hang away and others do whatever floats their boat once this is at manageable levels? If I choose to mask please don't sneeze on me, I might be a transplant recipient.

We've had it drilled into us all last year that masks only work if everyone wears them. This was what we heard over and over. I think a theme park that attracts kids should consider that this young demographic is unprotected. It's strange to me that we (general) assume it doesn't matter if kids are exposed as long as adults get the shot. Kids will hopefully be eligible soon enough and we've already gone this long with masks. I think being told different things and dealing with every extreme of opinion is taking a toll. CDC cited super spreader children as an example for why schools had to dismantle. They aren't budging an inch on those policies at school. I think a massive theme park can manage a little longer with their precautions. Just my opinion. I definitely understand both sides. I remember how much this board buzzed with anger about Disney opening at all.

 

[JoeCamel]

We've had it drilled into us all last year that masks only work if everyone wears them. This was what we heard over and over. I think a theme park that attracts kids should consider that this young demographic is unprotected. It's strange to me that we (general) assume it doesn't matter if kids are exposed. Kids will hopefully be eligible soon enough and we've already gone this long with masks. I think being told different things and dealing with every extreme of opinion is taking a toll. CDC cited super spreader children as an example for why schools had to dismantle. They aren't budging an inch on those policies at school. I think a massive theme park can manage a little longer with their precautions. Just my opinion. I definitely understand both sides. I remember how much this board buzzed with anger about Disney opening at all.

Right - once cases are at a manageable level.

 

[HRHPrincessAriel]

That's good news. Schools are definitely having issues where I live so it might be a while before kids can benefit from that herd immunity. One school in the next town over is having a big problem even at elementary schools. One case after another and it's causing staffing issues from the quarantines. My compromise would be keeping most of the same measures in place at Disney until school is done. It seems like many schools even in less restricted states don't plan to change mask policy for 2021-2022 so I guess I feel like kids still need some protections in places where risk can take hold. Disney still has a crowded element to it that qualifies it for maybe a more gradual pull back. I felt very safe last summer when we went and I didn't see anyone in distress or not following the rules. I guess I'd like to hang on a little longer to that safety for my child until he can get the shot. I'm not going to lie - I don't want him to get sick at all with anything. It sucked so much when my husband got sick there a couple years ago. We missed out on our last day and all of us caught it when we returned home. I feel nervous about catching anything early on in the trip and then the vacation being ruined. I see masks in crowded places as a small price to pay. I have different opinions locally as some places are more risky than others.

Multiple larger districts in TX have already said no mask policy next school year.
multiple smaller ones have already removed the policy for the remainder of this school year.

 

[mmascari]

Phase 1 will be triggered once 50% of adults in the county have been vaccinated (already happened) and either the five day rolling average of new case positivity is under 5% for seven days straight or the number of new cases is below 15 per 100k on a five day rolling average for seven days straight. When triggered, social distancing restrictions will be lifted at at restaurants, hotels, outdoor establishments and nonprofessional sporting functions.

Phase 2 will be triggered once 60% of adults in the county have been vaccinated and the five day rolling average of new case positivity is under 4% for seven days straight. This is the mayor's proposal and I assume (as with Phase 1) that the county commission will add an alternative trigger based on new cases. Phase 2 would lift social distancing restrictions at gyms, indoor amusement facilities, movies, theaters and community centers.

Phase 3 ends the mask mandate after 65% of adults are vaccinated and the five day rolling average positivity is under 3%.

I wonder why restaurants are in phase 1 instead of 2. To me, they sound much more similar to the other items in phase 2 for risk.

From a policy standpoint, the "and" is almost redundant. It could just be the positivity (we know where spread is) along with the cases (we know how much spread). At this point, the only way we reach those numbers is with the vaccinated percent high enough. I like that they set a policy level, as a policy decision. Even if I would like lower numbers, it's at least a defined goal for "low enough".

From a marketing standpoint, the vaccinated percent is good marketing. They can point to it to get more people to vaccinate to push that metric above the goal. Especially for people who aren't connecting that goal to driving the other metrics and only focusing on what they get immediately.

Not a bad plan. I do think it would be helpful to set these types of targets to get people motivated to get vaccinated. There is a fear that if you say masks and other restrictions gone once 65% of adults are done that some people will decide they will just hold out and wait and be in the other 35%. I think at this point the benefit of giving people a target to shoot for outweighs the downside of setting a target.

To pick on GoofGoof, there's another risk in here. Just like this part of your comment left off the AND with the other metrics. That's a risk with the vaccinated percent metric. That people stop reading, never see the and, and just stop once the vaccinated metric is good enough even if the rest are not. I believe you suggested setting a vaccinated metric that's high enough to ensure the others must get there if you've met it. As a way to be sure we get there, even if we're not paying attention to all the details.

I’m all for it at a national level too, but I’d shoot for higher than 65% for the national number since there are states that will be in the 80%+ range. Maybe 70 or 75% but it can be somewhat flexible too. Like maybe a floor for vaccinations and cases per 100K that would both have to be met (65% of adults vaccinated and under 5 cases per 100K) but then have individual high end targets like 80% of adults vaccinated and cases under 3 per 100K that trigger the removal of restrictions even if the other floor hasn’t been met yet.

We really do need some politicians to propose some values here. Put a definitive goal out there that we can march to. Not just what the healthcare providers like to say. I assume they haven't, since nobody likes to put a price on a life. If they had to debate that goal, there would be two politicians in a room, one saying the other is for letting everyone die, as exaggerating a larger number. One saying the other is trying to drive to zero which is impossible. Both would be misrepresenting the other for sound bites. Just like every government agency has a different value of a life used in their calculations, because we don't like to talk about it.

 

[DisneyCane]

I wonder why restaurants are in phase 1 instead of 2. To me, they sound much more similar to the other items in phase 2 for risk.

From a policy standpoint, the "and" is almost redundant. It could just be the positivity (we know where spread is) along with the cases (we know how much spread). At this point, the only way we reach those numbers is with the vaccinated percent high enough. I like that they set a policy level, as a policy decision. Even if I would like lower numbers, it's at least a defined goal for "low enough".

Restaurants being in Phase 1 likely has to do with the fact that the people who are right next to you are the people in your party. Since the six foot rule seems to be sliding towards a three foot rule, non-booth restaurant tables are usually at at least three feet from each other.

The "and" part is sort of redundant because the county commission added the 15 per 100k daily case count metric which should go down as vaccinations go up. In the mayor's original proposal, of just using positivity, there could be scenarios where that doesn't drop as expected. My thought is that as more are vaccinated, fewer people will be getting tested due to contact tracing and things like that. Therefore, a higher percentage of the people who get tested will be doing so due to symptoms and much more likely to be positive.

I could easily see the case count dropping but the positivity staying flat.

 

[GaBoy]

Yes to me vaccinated means fully vaccinated. I work in an essential industry So I had to spend the past year interacting with a lot of people. I have been quarantined 3 times. I have had most of the people around me quarantine and about half sick. I have not been to Disney where I don't come home with something and I assume that is part of being around a large crowd. My perspective has been shaped over the past year by necessity. I never had the opportunity to isolate.

Hey. Not sure about the sad faces. I got used to it. It changes your reality a little and to be honest with the way that the Georgia economy is booming, there's no choice. Its wide open. The local inspector couldn't get to my permits and I told him I knew they were slammed. He responded that it was back to beyond "normal". Savannah tourism is hopping right now.

 

[mickeymiss]

This could be wishful thinking but I really think masks, reduced capacity and distancing prevented us from getting sick during our trip last summer. People thought going to Disney was so reckless and we didn't get sick at all. We felt so safe and it was never the imposition that I worried it would be. I think every business should be allowed to open but masks are something we were literally forced to accept and my compromise is just to keep them in place where risk might be a bit higher (flights, crowded theme parks, etc) until all ages can be immunized.

 

[Patcheslee]

Kings Island and Cedar Point will no longer require masks while outdoors as long as social distancing can be maintained. Guests under 9 do not require face masks.

 

[mmascari]

The "and" part is sort of redundant because the county commission added the 15 per 100k daily case count metric which should go down as vaccinations go up. In the mayor's original proposal, of just using positivity, there could be scenarios where that doesn't drop as expected. My thought is that as more are vaccinated, fewer people will be getting tested due to contact tracing and things like that. Therefore, a higher percentage of the people who get tested will be doing so due to symptoms and much more likely to be positive.

I could easily see the case count dropping but the positivity staying flat.

Using only using positivity definitely sounds wrong. You really do need both measures, they support each other not replace.

They probably need to change how the positivity is measured too. After a positive case, when you contract trace to someone there's really 4 options now instead of 3.

1. Find someone, they test and are positive too.
2. Find someone, they test and are negative.
3. Find someone, and they don't test, you don't know. Same as "not finding" someone.
4. Find someone, and they've been vaccinated so they don't test.

That new fourth option is going to mess up the metric. The current metric would count that the same as the third. Which, to your point, would keep the positivity flat or it could even go up. If you counted the fourth one the same as the second, then it would help drive the positivity down. Which is closer to the assumption on what the metric is for. Telling us if we're finding where spread is occurring or if it's still circulating in unknown populations.

I'm not sure if they're able to track it like that. I get the feeling most testing is still being done based on how people feel or more broad notifications than specific tracing. But, that's just a feeling, I've really got no idea. If you had specific tracing, you could add the fourth count to the negative tests to drive the number down. But, without specific tracing, there's no way to know from just general notifications.

 

[DisneyCane]

I'm glad that Fauci has finally said what I've been saying for a year now after reading early studies about outdoor spread. Responding to a question about changing the CDC guidelines to remove outdoor mask use, he said:

"But I think it's pretty common sense now that outdoor risk is really, really quite low, particularly -- I mean, if you are a vaccinated person, wearing a mask outdoors, I mean, obviously, the risk is minuscule."

The bolded part is before he was referring to vaccinated people. For those in this thread that always say that outdoors isn't a magic safe place, Dr. Fauci has essentially said that.

Obviously, there is no place, indoors or outdoors, where COVID risk is zero but the outdoor risk is so low that there is no reason to have measures outdoors at WDW or anywhere else (sporting events, the beach, etc.).

 

[danlb_2000]

I'm glad that Fauci has finally said what I've been saying for a year now after reading early studies about outdoor spread. Responding to a question about changing the CDC guidelines to remove outdoor mask use, he said:

"But I think it's pretty common sense now that outdoor risk is really, really quite low, particularly -- I mean, if you are a vaccinated person, wearing a mask outdoors, I mean, obviously, the risk is minuscule."

The bolded part is before he was referring to vaccinated people. For those in this thread that always say that outdoors isn't a magic safe place, Dr. Fauci has essentially said that.

Obviously, there is no place, indoors or outdoors, where COVID risk is zero but the outdoor risk is so low that there is no reason to have measures outdoors at WDW or anywhere else (sporting events, the beach, etc.).

They are supposed to announce new guidance for masking outdoors tomorrow but it sounds like it may only apply to vaccinated people.

 

[Incomudro]

Clearly the many studies that have been done were just fak

We've had it drilled into us all last year that masks only work if everyone wears them. This was what we heard over and over. I think a theme park that attracts kids should consider that this young demographic is unprotected. It's strange to me that we (general) assume it doesn't matter if kids are exposed as long as adults get the shot. Kids will hopefully be eligible soon enough and we've already gone this long with masks. I think being told different things and dealing with every extreme of opinion is taking a toll. CDC cited super spreader children as an example for why schools had to dismantle. They aren't budging an inch on those policies at school. I think a massive theme park can manage a little longer with their precautions. Just my opinion. I definitely understand both sides. I remember how much this board buzzed with anger about Disney opening at all.

Masks only work to reduce the rate of spread if everyone wears them.
If a person is concerned about their own personal safety however, they can wear an n95 mask now, and they can also wear it when and where general mask wearing guidelines are dropped.

 

[DisneyCane]

They are supposed to announce new guidance for masking outdoors tomorrow but it sounds like it may only apply to vaccinated people.

It could be. My point was that Fauci stated that the outdoor risk, in general, is "really, really quite low."

 

[mickeymiss]

Kings Island and Cedar Point will no longer require masks while outdoors as long as social distancing can be maintained. Guests under 9 do not require face masks.

That policy logic doesn't make sense though. Kids may not be as adversely affected by covid but they are the most likely to spread any germ. Kids are unvaccinated, every vaccine has a fail rate and we haven't reached a broad decline in cases everywhere. I have been awake during all of this coverage that schools can't open or resume full time because kids will spread it to teachers. Schools still aren't changing protocol. Cedar Point may as well remove the mask mandate altogether. I don't love seeing kids in masks but they are the most likely carriers now that most adults are vaccinated. We've moved to very strict limits on everything to a quick reversal before the vaccine has a chance to do its thing. I just want to go places. I'll wear a mask, fine. I just want things to be open.