Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Tom P.]

I am about to bang my head against a brick wall over the number of people here who do not understand that over 1000 people a day are still dying from this.

People who are fully vaccinated are not contributing to that problem. More people getting vaccinated is the solution to that problem. So tell people they can get vaccinated and then resume normal life -- as all the scientific evidence tells us is safe -- and people will do it.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

I am about to bang my head against a brick wall over the number of people here who do not want to see restrictions relaxed unless there is 100% protection, zero cases, or some other absolute. Folks, that is unattainable. It will never happen. There will always be a chance you may catch Covid. There will always be a chance you might even die from it. Eliminating that risk is not the point. Getting the risk to a manageable, acceptable level is.

The data shows that once you are vaccinated, the risk of catching, spreading, or having serious complications from Covid drops to virtually zero. No, not absolutely zero. Yes, there's still a slight chance you could get sick or spread it. Yes, there's a slight chance a variant might pop up that beats the vaccine. But it is the closest you can possibly get to complete protection.

Again, my opinion is that if you want vaccines in arms, you have to tell people that they can get vaccinated and then drop the restrictions. Nothing else is going to sell it on the scale we need.

What really gets me is how selective the "sky is falling" crowd is in who they care about. We ALL have to get vaccinated to protect each other. Yet they have no problems with companies making horribly unhealthy foods for decades, poisoning us with addictive things like sugar. This has lead to an epidemic of diabetes, heart issues, etc.

They don't seem to care about that though. They'll walk right past that overweight father at Disney eating a triple scoop ice cream sundae and just smile and wave but if he didn't get vaccinated they would prefer he never leave his house.

They don't want speed limits reduced, they have no issues with alcohol (10,000 people DIE each year from drunk driving).

 

[Incomudro]

Public Health needs and equality are the remaining reasons. It’s not fair to deny someone a vaccine and let others have additional “rewards” from a population level. Once everyone has the opportunity, I absolutely do support you.

I am literally part of the 1% in Canada with a full vaccine series. I do not feel that privilege also affords me freedom from public health measures at this time. Not because the science does not support it, but public health policy is more about the whole than an individual.

I will just again reiterate if you are lucky enough to have the vaccine, for the moment, be grateful. That’s your reward, but don’t rub it in others faces by not following the rules. Restriction lifting will come soon enough for everyone else.

It should allow the individual rights that others who haven't been vaccinated yet do not have.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

What really gets me is how selective the "sky is falling" crowd is in who they care about. We ALL have to get vaccinated to protect each other. Yet they have no problems with companies making horribly unhealthy foods for decades, poisoning us with addictive things like sugar. This has lead to an epidemic of diabetes, heart issues, etc.

They don't seem to care about that though. They'll walk right past that overweight father at Disney eating a triple scoop ice cream sundae and just smile and wave but if he didn't get vaccinated they would prefer he never leave his house.

They don't want speed limits reduced, they have no issues with alcohol (10,000 people DIE each year from drunk driving).

Its almost as if one factor has the potential to harm OTHER people and one has the potential to harm ONESELF....hmm....

 

[danlb_2000]

Doesn't match up with this:

Preliminary US death statistics show over 3.4 million total deaths in 2020 — at least 20% more deaths than in 2019

Preliminary US death statistics show over 3.4 million total deaths in 2020 — 20% more deaths than in 2019.

usafacts.org

Not sure what that chart from your link is actually showing. It's designed to look like deaths are up 40-50% year over year which is just ridiculous. But not surprised since 2020 was a banner year for hyperbole.

His chart is accurate, it matches up with the CDC's chart. Starting in March of 2020, weekly deaths were up between 8% and 40% over the average expected death rate.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

People who are fully vaccinated are not contributing to that problem. More people getting vaccinated is the solution to that problem. So tell people they can get vaccinated and then resume normal life -- as all the scientific evidence tells us is safe -- and people will do it.

Thats what they are saying but not enough people are vaccinated to be able to collectively move along to a normal life. Thats why as a fully vaccinated person I choose to wear my mask, stay 6 feet apart, and dont gather inside places for long.

 

[mmascari]

People who are fully vaccinated are not contributing to that problem. More people getting vaccinated is the solution to that problem. So tell people they can get vaccinated and then resume normal life -- as all the scientific evidence tells us is safe -- and people will do it.

Do you have link to a study that connects the two? Or, even a news article that says they're connected? (That hopefully references a study, since news stories are famous for ignoring the nuances.)

Otherwise, it's back to an indirect relationship. Vaccinated people reduce community spread. Reduced community spread reduces/eliminates the need for mitigations. You cannot simply collapse them and say individual vaccination eliminates the need for mitigations when mixing vaccinated and contagious people.

 

[Incomudro]

What really gets me is how selective the "sky is falling" crowd is in who they care about. We ALL have to get vaccinated to protect each other. Yet they have no problems with companies making horribly unhealthy foods for decades, poisoning us with addictive things like sugar. This has lead to an epidemic of diabetes, heart issues, etc.

They don't seem to care about that though. They'll walk right past that overweight father at Disney eating a triple scoop ice cream sundae and just smile and wave but if he didn't get vaccinated they would prefer he never leave his house.

They don't want speed limits reduced, they have no issues with alcohol (10,000 people DIE each year from drunk driving).

There's a CNBC story out today that says a CDC study finds about 78% of those hospitalized for covid19 were overweight or obese.
Imagine if we put effort in this society about creating and maintaining a healthy population?
We could have cut covid deaths by a tremendous margin.
We could cut the annual cardiovascular death rates similarly.
People are very selective.

 

[Incomudro]

Its almost as if one factor has the potential to harm OTHER people and one has the potential to harm ONESELF....hmm....

Data also shows that if one takes care of ONESELF than they can greatly reduce the chances of potential harm from OTHER people.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Data also shows that if one takes care of ONESELF than they can greatly reduce the chances of potential harm from OTHER people.

Covid is a different beast. Its hit extremely fit people, leaving them with terrible effects, its hit extremely obese people, leaving them with terrible effects.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What really gets me is how selective the "sky is falling" crowd is in who they care about. We ALL have to get vaccinated to protect each other. Yet they have no problems with companies making horribly unhealthy foods for decades, poisoning us with addictive things like sugar. This has lead to an epidemic of diabetes, heart issues, etc.

They don't seem to care about that though. They'll walk right past that overweight father at Disney eating a triple scoop ice cream sundae and just smile and wave but if he didn't get vaccinated they would prefer he never leave his house.

They don't want speed limits reduced, they have no issues with alcohol (10,000 people DIE each year from drunk driving).

You polled everyone here to make that determination?

There's a CNBC story out today that says a CDC study finds about 78% of those hospitalized for covid19 were overweight or obese.
Imagine if we put effort in this society about creating and maintaining a healthy population?
We could have cut covid deaths by a tremendous margin.
We could cut the annual cardiovascular death rates similarly.
People are very selective.

Except you’ve scoffed at people pointing out some of the issues that contribute to these problems. That is part of the problem, a whole system by which different people benefit in different ways but to the detriment of most.

 

[pixie225]

Covid is a different beast. Its hit extremely fit people, leaving them with terrible effects, its hit extremely obese people, leaving them with terrible effects.

This. My friend is an incredibly fit 47 year old female. Jogs 5 miles each a.m., then goes to gym for workout, then plays Pickleball every day. She got covid in January, and 6 weeks ago had to have a heart procedure due to the side effects of covid. Very scary.

 

[BrianLo]

It should allow the individual rights that others who haven't been vaccinated yet do not have.

Sure, Once everyone is allowed to be vaccinated. We aren’t there yet anywhere (except Israel).

 

[aliceismad]

There's a CNBC story out today that says a CDC study finds about 78% of those hospitalized for covid19 were overweight or obese.
Imagine if we put effort in this society about creating and maintaining a healthy population?
We could have cut covid deaths by a tremendous margin.
We could cut the annual cardiovascular death rates similarly.
People are very selective.

It also says
"Just over 42% of the U.S. population was considered obese in 2018, according to the agency’s most recent statistics.
"It doesn’t take a lot of extra pounds to be considered overweight or obese. A 5-foot-10-inch man at 175 pounds and 5-foot-4-inch woman at 146 pounds would both be considered overweight with BMIs of just over 25, according to the CDC’s BMI calculator. A man and woman of the same heights would be considered obese at 210 pounds and 175 pounds, respectively."

I don't disagree that the percentage of the U.S. population that is overweight is a problem, but BMI is also incredibly flawed in a number of ways.

Further, putting personal responsibility on people for "being overweight" and "not taking care of themselves" is just one aspect of the issue. A true effort to reduce obesity also needs to consider much more, including our sedentary nature and the role our employment plays in that. Not to mention food deserts, food costs, etc.

 

[Tom P.]

Thats what they are saying but not enough people are vaccinated to be able to collectively move along to a normal life. Thats why as a fully vaccinated person I choose to wear my mask, stay 6 feet apart, and dont gather inside places for long.

Why? What does that accomplish? As a fully vaccinated person, you do not transmit the virus. There is no benefit to you continuing to engage in those mitigation measures.

Do you have link to a study that connects the two? Or, even a news article that says they're connected? (That hopefully references a study, since news stories are famous for ignoring the nuances.)

Otherwise, it's back to an indirect relationship. Vaccinated people reduce community spread. Reduced community spread reduces/eliminates the need for mitigations. You cannot simply collapse them and say individual vaccination eliminates the need for mitigations when mixing vaccinated and contagious people.

If vaccinated people are not only protected from Covid but do not transmit it, then there is no problem with mixing vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Unvaccinated people should, of course, be practicing mitigation measures. But there is no reason for a vaccinated person to do so. Rachel Walensky, the director of the CDC, herself said "Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus."

Here are some links:

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

Real world study shows mRNA vaccines protect against symptomatic and asymptomatic infection: CDC

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have been shown to prevent both symptomatic and asymptomatic COVID-19, according to a new study.

abcnews.go.com

Pfizer Vaccine Highly Effective at Preventing COVID-19, Study Shows

Data suggest that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is effective at preventing asymptomatic and symptomatic COVID-19 in people who are vaccinated against the virus.

www.verywellhealth.com

Covid-19 vaccines may prevent infection and not just symptoms, study suggests

Vaccine trials and distribution have also shed light on inequities in the medical field.

www.kezi.com

 

[OhioDuo]

There's not much Disney can really do to prepare.
Many more people get the flu each year and go into the parks infected whether they know it or not and in turn infect others and the flu is pretty deadly.
Also the key population of who has passed away from the virus is older men who already had pre existing conditions particularly respiratory conditions usually from smoking.
Did you avoid Disney during SARS or H1N1 or Zika or Ebola....? If so then avoid Disney now. If not then don't avoid Disney.
Use common sense and wash your hands etc.

The flu is significantly less deadly than COVID, plus the flu does not leave behind lingering after effects which inflict collateral damage to other parts of your body. I also take your comment as somewhat insulting to older people, as if they deserved to die. Pray that your parents, relatives and friends remain healthy. And never forget that there have been those in their twenties who passed away due to COVID in less than a week.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Why? What does that accomplish? As a fully vaccinated person, you do not transmit the virus. There is no benefit to you continuing to engage in those mitigation measures.

So this would be a perfect argument FOR vaccine passports. How do you know who is vaccinated and who is not in a place of business? Proof of vaccines. Then what? We wear wristbands that say we are exempt from masks?

 

[MaryJaneP]

WHO declared the Pandemic. It seems that they get to decide when the prevalence of Covid 19 no longer meets the definition of a pandemic. The entire world is a vast area to consider in their review of whether the pandemic continues or has ended.

Can WDW trespass an entire group of individuals if their behavior presents an imminent risk to every other guest?

 

[BrianLo]

I am about to bang my head against a brick wall over the number of people here who do not want to see restrictions relaxed unless there is 100% protection, zero cases, or some other absolute. Folks, that is unattainable. It will never happen. There will always be a chance you may catch Covid. There will always be a chance you might even die from it. Eliminating that risk is not the point. Getting the risk to a manageable, acceptable level is.

The data shows that once you are vaccinated, the risk of catching, spreading, or having serious complications from Covid drops to virtually zero. No, not absolutely zero. Yes, there's still a slight chance you could get sick or spread it. Yes, there's a slight chance a variant might pop up that beats the vaccine. But it is the closest you can possibly get to complete protection.

Again, my opinion is that if you want vaccines in arms, you have to tell people that they can get vaccinated and then drop the restrictions. Nothing else is going to sell it on the scale we need.

I feel like you are responding to me. This is not what I suggested. I suggested we at least wait long enough to give everyone the equal opportunity. Not everyone is eligible in the US right now last I was aware.

I too think there needs to be more societal pressure to encourage people to vaccinate. But the tipping point is very simple, once there are more vaccines than people willing to be vaccinated.

In terms of lifting restrictions, it’s all been very clear. If cases are going down restrictions can lift. If they are hovering the same or questionably more should be done. If they are increasing more should be done. Cases aren’t going down.

 

[Tom P.]

So this would be a perfect argument FOR vaccine passports. How do you know who is vaccinated and who is not in a place of business? Proof of vaccines. Then what? We wear wristbands that say we are exempt from masks?

You make a good point, and I was more speaking about interpersonal interactions than business ones. Of course, if a business requires masks than I think people, even vaccinated people, should respect that. And I can certainly understand why it would be difficult for a business to require masks only of unvaccinated people since, at least at the moment, there's no practical way they can verify who is vaccinated. But just on a social level, I see no reason for vaccinated people to continue wearing masks, based upon the scientific data that is available now.