Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

I won't be in any viral videos. If a business doesn't want me in there then I'll shop somewhere that doesn't bother me about it. I know there are walmart locations in FL that are located where there are no local mandates and walmart just recommends them now. I'll take a drive and shop at one of them if I have to.

That’s fine. If a business doesn’t require it then there’s no issue. I personally think the businesses should still require it for the sake of their customers and also their employees but that’s another argument all together. You not wearing a mask to a Walmart that doesn’t require it is not based on vaccination status though, they aren’t requiring a mask for anyone. I don’t know of any businesses yet that are saying if you are vaccinated you don’t need to wear a mask but if you are unvaccinated you still do.

 

[James J]

I won't be in any viral videos. If a business doesn't want me in there then I'll shop somewhere that doesn't bother me about it. I know there are walmart locations in FL that are located where there are no local mandates and walmart just recommends them now. I'll take a drive and shop at one of them if I have to.

Inconveniencing yourself because you don't want to wear a mask for the duration of being in a store is a strange stance to take.

 

[havoc315]

Lessons from Israel..
Herd immunity vs indirect protection:

Israeli herd immunity redundant in face of COVID vaccination drive, experts say

***

www.haaretz.com

A comment that would scare people about Disney's re-opening:

"When 60 percent of the population is vaccinated, it's enough for the infection rate to go down. This in addition to wearing masks and social distancing are enough to curb infection rates and reopen the economy," Balicer said."

There are definitely those in the scientific community who believe masks and social distancing will continue to be required with 60% vaccination rates. But doubtful the American public would be very tolerant of masks and social distancing at that juncture.

 

[GoofGoof]

Switching topics a little. Real world data in the US shows that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are over 90% effective in preventing all illness in a study released by the CDC. The data was collected from healthcare workers who have been tested weekly from December to March. The study also showed that the first shot was 80% effective after 14 days so a pretty high level of protection even after just 1 shot. This is the first real world data from the US that mirrors studies in other nations that shows both the high efficacy of the vaccines and also that the vaccines protect against even asymptomatic spread so they also offer a high level of protection from spreading Covid to others as well. This is especially good news as the study extended into March when variants became more prevalent in the US. The existence of the variants does not appear to significantly reduce the effectiveness of these vaccines. Pretty good news there.

CDC: Real-world data shows Pfizer's and Moderna's COVID-19 vaccines are 90% effective at preventing infection

A study of nearly 4,000 healthcare workers found that vaccinated people did not often transmit the virus to other people. One shot was 80% protective.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[_caleb]

That’s what the airlines oppose. They are not opposed to the creation of vaccine passports today (although they do prefer a federal one as opposed to 50 state programs) and they are not completely opposed to using them in the future should the need come. What they are opposed to is a government imposed requirement that they can’t control that requires a vaccination to fly domestically. They want to leave the option open and hope that the community spread is low enough to not need them.

I imagine most industries would generally oppose government imposed requirements. But in general, I'm in favor of things like health restrictions, inspections, requirements, licensing, etc. When it comes to worker and consumer protections, businesses are not unbiased, and customers are largely uninformed. A centralized coordinating oversight body (accountable to the people) seems like a good solution.

Disney hasn't always put the welfare of CMs at the top of their priority list, and it seems like they've been willing to risk a bit of guests' wellbeing as well. Guests likewise seem to have no problem risking the spread of the virus. I don't want government agents running WDW, but self-policing during a pandemic seems like an untenable solution.

This is why I'm in favor of vaccine passports.

 

[Patcheslee]

I sincerely hope a vaccine passport becomes mandatory to fly domestically or to attend large-scale events (including WDW). Cruise lines have already said it's mandatory for adults and I expect international airlines to make the same requirement.

I'd be getting a refund pretty quickly. There's quite a few things I don't mind, but having my daughter get her brain itched just to get on a flight isn't one of them just for a vacation. I'd rather spend take the 16 hour drive in my own vehicle.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

I wasn't on here much last week, IDK if anyone posted this

Rutgers to Require COVID-19 Vaccine for Students

Widespread vaccination will accelerate the return to a pre-pandemic normal on the university’s campuses, President Jonathan Holloway and other senior administrators noted in a letter to the Rutgers community.

www.rutgers.edu

My theory is schools were originally saying "no requirement yet" because they thought by the time Fall semester starts, vaccination distribution would still be a slow moving machine (I thought so myself). Now, it looks like by summer, everyone who wants one should have one, giving universities that chance to require it by fall. I think many more universities will follow.

 

[_caleb]

I'd be getting a refund pretty quickly. There's quite a few things I don't mind, but having my daughter get her brain itched just to get on a flight isn't one of them just for a vacation. I'd rather spend take the 16 hour drive in my own vehicle.

What if the rapid test used saliva and didn't require special handling?

 

[Patcheslee]

What if the rapid test used saliva and didn't require special handling?

That wouldn't be bad, but the general stress of "what if" for a test isn't worth it. Months of waiting then poof positive test for return flight. What the heck do they do if minors test positive away from home? Are they separated from their parents like adults get separated in separate hotel rooms? Not a position I would want to be in.

 

[Polkadotdress]

That wouldn't be bad, but the general stress of "what if" for a test isn't worth it. Months of waiting then poof positive test for return flight. What the heck do they do if minors test positive away from home? Are they separated from their parents like adults get separated in separate hotel rooms? Not a position I would want to be in.

If a member of your traveling party tests positive, then likely the whole party will be quarantined and not allowed to fly.

 

[GoofGoof]

That wouldn't be bad, but the general stress of "what if" for a test isn't worth it. Months of waiting then poof positive test for return flight. What the heck do they do if minors test positive away from home? Are they separated from their parents like adults get separated in separate hotel rooms? Not a position I would want to be in.

That would be my biggest concern with mandating testing. If you fly somewhere and then test positive you are essentially stuck there for up to several weeks.

 

[GoofGoof]

Lessons from Israel..
Herd immunity vs indirect protection:

Israeli herd immunity redundant in face of COVID vaccination drive, experts say

***

www.haaretz.com

A comment that would scare people about Disney's re-opening:

"When 60 percent of the population is vaccinated, it's enough for the infection rate to go down. This in addition to wearing masks and social distancing are enough to curb infection rates and reopen the economy," Balicer said."

There are definitely those in the scientific community who believe masks and social distancing will continue to be required with 60% vaccination rates. But doubtful the American public would be very tolerant of masks and social distancing at that juncture.

It’s possible things go this way. In places like New Zealand who beat down Covid without vaccines, they relaxed masks and most distancing for long periods of time. Only when an outbreak occurred did they go back to restrictions but that was temporary. For most of the last year they had bars and restaurants and sports arenas open at full capacity with no masks. It’s possible.

 

[hopemax]

Colorado is moving to Phase 2 (open to all adults) on April 2nd.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

That would be my biggest concern with mandating testing. If you fly somewhere and then test positive you are essentially stuck there for up to several weeks.

Would you rather be stuck somewhere or potentially infect a plane load of people?

 

[GoofGoof]

Would you rather be stuck somewhere or potentially infect a plane load of people?

I’d rather not fly and take the risk of being stranded somewhere.

'I can't believe this is happening': Travelers recount tales of getting stuck in Mexico after positive COVID-19 tests

A CDC order that went into effect requiring a negative COVID-19 test before flying to the U.S. has temporarily stranded some travelers in Mexico.

news.yahoo.com

 

[havoc315]

It’s possible things go this way. In places like New Zealand who beat down Covid without vaccines, they relaxed masks and most distancing for long periods of time. Only when an outbreak occurred did they go back to restrictions but that was temporary. For most of the last year they had bars and restaurants and sports arenas open at full capacity with no masks. It’s possible.

If cases are low enough, I just don't see widespread acceptance of mask mandates. You still may see a good amount of people opting to wear masks.

Israel has certainly massive reduced their infection rate with vaccines. They still aren't quite at herd immunity (though we WISH we had their numbers) and they may never get there. Now at 55% vaccination rate or so, they really are hitting vaccine hesitancy. Their daily new vaccines has really slowed down, they are having trouble getting the remaining adults to get vaccinated.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I’d rather not fly and take the risk of being stranded somewhere.

'I can't believe this is happening': Travelers recount tales of getting stuck in Mexico after positive COVID-19 tests

A CDC order that went into effect requiring a negative COVID-19 test before flying to the U.S. has temporarily stranded some travelers in Mexico.

news.yahoo.com

That’s exactly what should have happened and what should be happening everywhere. If you have covid you should not be traveling.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I wasn't on here much last week, IDK if anyone posted this

Rutgers to Require COVID-19 Vaccine for Students

Widespread vaccination will accelerate the return to a pre-pandemic normal on the university’s campuses, President Jonathan Holloway and other senior administrators noted in a letter to the Rutgers community.

www.rutgers.edu

My theory is schools were originally saying "no requirement yet" because they thought by the time Fall semester starts, vaccination distribution would still be a slow moving machine (I thought so myself). Now, it looks like by summer, everyone who wants one should have one, giving universities that chance to require it by fall. I think many more universities will follow.

Probably the only thing holding other universities back now is full FDA approval of the vaccines, not just the emergency authorization. I know Pfizer intends to request approval in April, but I haven't heard (or really looked, to be honest) when the others plan to submit.

 

[mmascari]

Getting vaccinated is for the good of society and I'm doing that. The vaccination replaces the need to do the other stuff as it is far more effective than the other mitigation measures. As I've said, to this point I've complied with rules that I disagree with "for the good of society."

That's how it works at the community level. Enough people vaccinated that the virus cannot find a host to infect and it's contained. Which also means, the vast majority of vaccinated people will not ever be exposed to the virus. It works wonders to help reduce community spread, but it's real strength is keeping already low spread low.

Alone by itself when spread is high, the vaccine alone isn't enough. Your actions in a state that still has high levels off community spread will only accomplish one goal. They'll increase how often a vaccinated person is exposed to different virus mutations.

As just one person, individually you're probably not exposed enough for it to matter. Unless you're just super unlucky. But, if everyone vaccinated did the same, that would create a huge number of vaccinated vs virus mutation exposures. Greatly increasing the chance of mutations where the vaccine is less effective finding hosts. Those mutations will out compete mutations the vaccine is more effective against simply because they will be able to infect more people even with milder impacts. This will extend the time where spread is still high requiring restrictions for longer. It will also put the community at greater risk for virus mutations the vaccines are less and less effective against until the vaccine isn't effective at all and we're starting over.

So, while it may be great for just you, it's disastrous for the community as a whole. It's why mitigations are tied to community spread and not to individual vaccine status. Which, eventually, you're part of the community too. So, in the long run, if everyone acts this way after being vaccinated, it's bad for everyone then.

Good for you getting the vaccine earlier than others. But, that's all it meant, you got the vaccine sooner and eliminated the chance you may die from COVID. We're all in the mitigation boat together.

 

[GoofGoof]

That’s exactly what should have happened and what should be happening everywhere. If you have covid you should not be traveling.

I’m not saying you should travel with Covid, just that I don’t want to fly somewhere, get Covid or have one of my kids get covid and then be trapped there.