Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[MisterPenguin]

CRUISES SHOULD BE ALLOWED WITH STRICT RESTRICTIONS.

In fact, they are.

When the no sail restriction was lifted last Fall, the conditional restriction allowed cruise lines to restart... with strict conditions.

They had to put in place all the normal mask and distancing protocols (the same we see at the parks). They had to document rigorous testing of crew and passengers. Then they had to do a trial-run of a cruise with 18+ y.o. volunteers to make sure their protocols were effective.

AFAIK, all the cruises that were affected by the conditional restriction decided to just not cruise at all. If they had done the hard work last Fall, they'd be cruising regularly for the past 4-5 months and into the Summer.

 

[seascape]

In fact, they are.

When the no sail restriction was lifted last Fall, the conditional restriction allowed cruise lines to restart... with strict conditions.

They had to put in place all the normal mask and distancing protocols (the same we see at the parks). They had to document rigorous testing of crew and passengers. Then they had to do a trial-run of a cruise with 18+ y.o. volunteers to make sure their protocols were effective.

AFAIK, all the cruises that were affected by the conditional restriction decided to just not cruise at all. If they had done the hard work last Fall, they'd be cruising regularly for the past 4-5 months and into the Summer.

The CDC has now banned all cruises from s US port until November 1.

 

[sullyinMT]

Foreign registration has nothing to do with no cruises in US waters docking at US ports due to CDC restrictions. But good try to those who just tried to politicize COVID again! You're the patriots our country needs!!!

It's been a long year, so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly. But, wasn't that part of the complaint with a few of the cruises trying to get back into FL (and CA in fewer numbers) to port and debark? There was a vocal minority out there (not in this thread necessarily) that brought up the foreign vessel argument and was shouting, essentially, "go home." Also, perhaps my information is wrong, but the CDC has said that any undue health burden must be absorbed by the flagged nation.

That said, cargo ships have been in and out of port since the beginning, and the CDC did present documents to the lines on how to get going again. There has been a long standoff ever since.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The CDC has now banned all cruises from s US port until November 1.

I don’t understand why they can’t just require proof of a negative covid test and/or a vaccination. November 1st seems like a long time based on things getting better.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It's been a long year, so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly. But, wasn't that part of the complaint with a few of the cruises trying to get back into FL (and CA in fewer numbers) to port and debark? There was a vocal minority out there (not in this thread necessarily) that brought up the foreign vessel argument and was shouting, essentially, "go home." Also, perhaps my information is wrong, but the CDC has said that any undue health burden must be absorbed by the flagged nation.

That said, cargo ships have been in and out of port since the beginning, and the CDC did present documents to the lines on how to get going again. There has been a long standoff ever since.

Part of the Conditional Restriction is that cruise lines have to show they have an arrangement with health care providers at port that will deal with a sick ship. I think that includes local jurisidictions.

 

[sullyinMT]

The CDC has now banned all cruises from s US port until November 1.

No. They've reiterated that the conditions of the CSO still stand until 11/1. They've also stated this week that updates to that same document are currently under review. The "expiration" date of the current CSO is 11/1. As of yet, nothing has changed that. With current trends able to go either way in regards to caseload, that's the right choice. More cruises are this week's Miami Spring break crowds than even the biggest fans care to admit, and a little caution for just a bit longer isn't a bad thing. So long as the industry is getting meaningful guidance, and being forthcoming with sharing that with potential passengers.

Both the government and the industry are at a communication fault in one way or the other.

 

[danlb_2000]

The CDC has now banned all cruises from s US port until November 1.

It's not clear to me if this is true or not. Two quotes from this article https://www.reuters.com/article/hea...main-effective-until-nov-1-cnbc-idUSL4N2LM491

"Earlier on Wednesday, the Cruise Lines International Association had urged the CDC to allow for a return to sailing from U.S. ports by early July, arguing that the health agency's stance did not reflect the accelerated roll out of vaccines or cruise operators' safety advancements."

"The CDC in October issued a “conditional sailing order” that comprised a framework for a phased resumption of cruises, requiring testing and additional safeguards for crew members, as well as simulated voyages to test cruise ship operators’ ability to mitigate the risk of virus transmission."

The first quote makes it seems like they are not allowed to run cruises, but the second makes is sound like they can as along as they follow the guidlines.

 

[Bob Harlem]

It's not clear to me if this is true or not. Two quotes from this article https://www.reuters.com/article/hea...main-effective-until-nov-1-cnbc-idUSL4N2LM491

"Earlier on Wednesday, the Cruise Lines International Association had urged the CDC to allow for a return to sailing from U.S. ports by early July, arguing that the health agency's stance did not reflect the accelerated roll out of vaccines or cruise operators' safety advancements."

"The CDC in October issued a “conditional sailing order” that comprised a framework for a phased resumption of cruises, requiring testing and additional safeguards for crew members, as well as simulated voyages to test cruise ship operators’ ability to mitigate the risk of virus transmission."

The first quote makes it seems like they are not allowed to run cruises, but the second makes is sound like they can as along as they follow the guidlines.

Part of the problem is the guidelines don't exist yet past phase one (particularly with regards to vaccinations), which is why the cruise lines are fed up with the government. A few details about this are linked below:

First article goes on about how the conditional sail order was taken in before vaccines became a thing. The test cruises likely will be these Bahama/Bermuda sailings, and they are getting a pretty good response so far from what I've heard.

Royal Caribbean Chairman Fain: CDC's Conditional Sail Order Is 'Unworkable' - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

Richard Fain, chairman and CEO of Royal Caribbean Group, has called on the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and Prevention to move on from the Conditional Sail Order (CSO). Fain said that while the No Sail Order was dropped for the CSO in October, it calls for a four-phased approach…

www.cruiseindustrynews.com

Volunteer Cruises May Not Happen - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

Test cruises with volunteers may not be happening as originally envisioned, as the industry moves to a restart in North America and the idea that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and Prevention's Conditional Sail Order (CSO) may be dropped or modified. The CSO has so far said companies...

www.cruiseindustrynews.com

Pressure on CDC To Drop Conditional Sail Order Mounting - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

After Royal Caribbean’s CEO Richard Fain spoke out against CDC’s Framework for Conditional Sail Order, calling it “unworkable," more pressure has been put on the organization to relax its rules for cruise lines in the U.S. The Framework for Conditional Sail Order came in place of the No Sail...

www.cruiseindustrynews.com

 

[MisterPenguin]

The CDC has now banned all cruises from s US port until November 1.

You're not reading correctly (or I'm not).

The Conditional Restrictions have been extended to November 1.

Cruises can happen under the Conditional Restrictions. They couldn't under the No Cruise Restrictions.

We're not under the No Cruise Restrictions now. We're under the Conditional Restrictions.

 

[seascape]

You're not reading correctly (or I'm not).

The Conditional Restrictions have been extended to November 1.

Cruises can happen under the Conditional Restrictions. They couldn't under the No Cruise Restrictions.

We're not under the No Cruise Restrictions now. We're under the Conditional Restrictions.

I am going by what CNBC reported. NBC is not some anti democratic news organization and is very trustworthy on their budget reporting. Look at the cruiseline stock prices if you doubt this report because those with money on the line clearly believe cruises are off.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Part of the problem is the guidelines don't exist yet past phase one (particularly with regards to vaccinations), which is why the cruise lines are fed up with the government. A few details about this are linked below:

First article goes on about how the conditional sail order was taken in before vaccines became a thing. The test cruises likely will be these Bahama/Bermuda sailings, and they are getting a pretty good response so far from what I've heard.

Royal Caribbean Chairman Fain: CDC's Conditional Sail Order Is 'Unworkable' - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

Richard Fain, chairman and CEO of Royal Caribbean Group, has called on the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and Prevention to move on from the Conditional Sail Order (CSO). Fain said that while the No Sail Order was dropped for the CSO in October, it calls for a four-phased approach…

www.cruiseindustrynews.com

Volunteer Cruises May Not Happen - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

Test cruises with volunteers may not be happening as originally envisioned, as the industry moves to a restart in North America and the idea that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and Prevention's Conditional Sail Order (CSO) may be dropped or modified. The CSO has so far said companies...

www.cruiseindustrynews.com

Pressure on CDC To Drop Conditional Sail Order Mounting - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

After Royal Caribbean’s CEO Richard Fain spoke out against CDC’s Framework for Conditional Sail Order, calling it “unworkable," more pressure has been put on the organization to relax its rules for cruise lines in the U.S. The Framework for Conditional Sail Order came in place of the No Sail...

www.cruiseindustrynews.com

CDC: [In November 2020] Hey, U.S.-based cruise lines or any that operate in our waters, you can start cruises with strict pandemic protocols. Here are the protocols with regard to testing and documentation and making sure you have a safe harbor if you have a 'sick boat.' You need to run a practice cruise with adult volunteers to show your mask and distancing protocols are working.

US-based Cruise Lines (UCL): Umm... no thanks.​

CDC: You sure?

UCL: Yep.​

[time elapses]

UCL: Hey, CDC, drop your conditional restrictions, vaccines will make everything right!!​

CDC: You didn't do the test runs, did you?

UCL: Nope.​

CDC: Yeah... but we know how you recruit developing world laborers onto your boats. We kinda wanna make sure that they're not going to be a source of reinfection in the U.S. with COVID.

UCL: But vaccines!!! Drop the Conditional Restrictions!!​

CDC: But you haven't tested your protocols and then there will be no plans for testings or making sure everyone is vaccinated.

UCL: But Europe's doing it!​

CDC: You know that they had to stop cruising for a while during various lock-downs in Europe, no?

UCL: But Europe!!! Besides, you haven't given us the specific operational guidelines for operating a cruise line!​

CDC: But you didn't first do the test runs to see what works and what doesn't work!

UCL: But Europe!!! And c'mon, you shouldn't have extend the conditional restrictions all the way to November. We have vaccines!!!​

CDC: We're not extending it. It always had a expiration date of Nov 1!! You're just making it sound like we haven't heard of the vaccines and are being unreasonable!!

​

UCL: Speaking of vaccines.... ​

CDC: Shut up. We'll review it.

 

[mmascari]

Doesn’t it say small family gatherings??? Not cruise ship size gatherings.

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

The CDC says fully vaccinated people can gather indoors with other fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask, but later recommends avoiding medium or large gatherings. It also says vaccinated people can gather with low-risk unvaccinated people from one other household.

I interpret that as a gathering where you can trust that everyone is actually vaccinated.

• Dinner party with 20 friends? If one (or more) of them is lying, do you really want to be friends?
• Block party with 100 "friends"? Are they really all friends that you trust that much? I mean, really trust?
• Cruise ship with 1,000 people? They're not your friends. The circle of trust isn't that big. A robust vaccine passport would be needed. There isn't one available today.

I mean we could all get these and trust people not to wear the blue one if it wasn't true. For that matter, who is wearing the red one? Shouldn't they be avoiding others?

 

[MisterPenguin]

I am going by what CNBC reported. NBC is not some anti democratic news organization and is very trustworthy on their budget reporting. Look at the cruiseline stock prices if you doubt this report because those with money on the line clearly believe cruises are off.

One news report? You didn't expand your sources of information when called into question? I've been all over the internet looking for clarity, and actually reading the Condition Restriction protocols of the CDC.

 

[g--force]

You're not reading correctly (or I'm not).

The Conditional Restrictions have been extended to November 1.

Cruises can happen under the Conditional Restrictions. They couldn't under the No Cruise Restrictions.

We're not under the No Cruise Restrictions now. We're under the Conditional Restrictions.

The No Sail Order and the Conditional Sail Order are essentially a change in name only. The cruise lines have been waiting since October for additional guidance from the CDC. For about 2 months, the CDC has been telling them "any day now".

Since they restarted sailing in other parts of the world, Royal Caribbean has had over 100,000 passengers with 10 testing positive for Covid.

This article summarizes things pretty well. Although the information is provided by Royal's CEO, I have to think it's pretty accurate.

Royal Caribbean’s Fain Says Sailing From U.S. Could Begin In July

Royal Caribbean Group CEO Richard Fain says “a dramatic change in the landscape” could see the line sailing from U.S. ports in time to meet President Biden’s

cruiseradio.net

 

[MisterPenguin]

I am going by what CNBC reported. NBC is not some anti democratic news organization and is very trustworthy on their budget reporting. Look at the cruiseline stock prices if you doubt this report because those with money on the line clearly believe cruises are off.

Also, I guess Disney is foolishly allowing people to sign up for cruises this summer.

 

[aliceismad]

I don’t understand why they can’t just require proof of a negative covid test and/or a vaccination. November 1st seems like a long time based on things getting better.

The Royal Caribbean test cruises out of Bermuda and the Bahamas are requiring vaccinations for adults and negative tests for minors (as well as reduced capacity overall). There's people* calling for boycotts because of those requirements. (* people on Twitter, so does that really amount to anything?)

RCI has also been sailing limited cruises from Singapore, for Singapore residents only, for the past few months. The one incident in December turned out to not be covid. But covid measures in Singapore are very different from here and they have very, very few cases.

 

[Prince-1]

The CDC has now banned all cruises from s US port until November 1.

False.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Were cruises allowed before Biden was sworn in?

No they were not.

In fact, they are.

When the no sail restriction was lifted last Fall, the conditional restriction allowed cruise lines to restart... with strict conditions.

They had to put in place all the normal mask and distancing protocols (the same we see at the parks). They had to document rigorous testing of crew and passengers. Then they had to do a trial-run of a cruise with 18+ y.o. volunteers to make sure their protocols were effective.

AFAIK, all the cruises that were affected by the conditional restriction decided to just not cruise at all. If they had done the hard work last Fall, they'd be cruising regularly for the past 4-5 months and into the Summer.

Why do you insist on bringing facts into this debate?

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

The CDC has now banned all cruises from s US port until November 1

They're keeping the "Conditional Sail Order" in effect until November 1st. Not banning sailings. Just means the cruise lines can conditionally sail providing they adhere to CDC guidelines.

 

[GoofGoof]

They're keeping the "Conditional Sail Order" in effect until November 1st. Not banning sailings. Just means the cruise lines can conditionally sail providing they adhere to CDC guidelines.

So to recap in my own words, there is not an actual change to anything since last October. The drop in cruise line stocks was due to a CDC person saying the order that‘s been in place since October will continue until November. The cruise industry is saying that the hoops they would need to jump through are impractical and so effectively by keeping the order in place they can’t conduct business or at least not the way they want to. The industry was hoping that restrictions would be more relaxed by the Summer based on Biden’s talk of a return to some normal activities by July 4th and they started taking bookings for Summer cruises based on that “hope”.