My waistline can attest to this. I gotta lose this takeout weight stat!
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
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Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
I didn't see the person's job description who supposedly deliberately wasted the vaccine doses, so for all we know, it could have been a custodial or office worker with minimal medical training.
In my experience in healthcare, I've worked with my fair share of employees with, lets just say, non-mainstream medical opinions. In all but one case, though, these weren't people who held a degree specifically in medicine, nursing or allied health.
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Miss Bella
Well-Known Member
That is true without a doubt. I think there should be another level beyond morbid obesity because just about everyone these days qualifies as obese.
Miss Bella
Well-Known Member
Technically this is the only Covid thread, but it has spilled over to most threads. I just got attacked on another thread for pointing out the obesity problem in this country on this thread.
There was more participants on the thread months ago, but most have left. It's mostly just one viewpoint. Disney cane and I are really the only ones left that oppose any of the majority on here.
Patcheslee
Well-Known Member
Just from a personal standpoint I'm not sure it's occurring in schools either. My 6th grader has been attending 2 days a week since September and there still has not been a single student case in her school with just over 400 kids. All instances of kids being required to isolate from the school have been from being in the same class or bus with a teacher, staff member that has tested positive, or outside the school.People are looking at the data. The problem tends to be with older teachers not feeling safe and parents who question the data wondering if they are getting the correct data or are schools just pushing to be open. I get all sides of it. Here’s another article from Massachusetts saying about the same thing as the article you posted. There are still clusters popping up but they feel it wasn’t from transmission in schools but outside of schools. Who knows who to believe anymore with this stuff.. seems someone always has a agenda. We need the vaccine more then ever.
How often is COVID-19 spreading in Massachusetts schools? - The Boston Globe
In the pitched debate over how to get students back to school, nuance is often lost. Teachers’ unions seem to suggest aging school buildings are danger zones unless proven otherwise. Politicians and some public health specialists promote schools as if they are safety zones from a pandemic.www.google.com
At the same time I question if that's even possible or if the long time for results to come back doesn't justify a "brain swab" vs just isolate the required days. Or if the school isn't properly reporting cases.
Back when DD12 was "exposed" on the bus we didn't find out until 8 days later when the results came back. The school policy is 14 days from last exposure so they said she only had 6 days she had to stay home. Or take her for testing and she could be back in as little as 5 days. It didn't make sense since she had no symptoms and testing is a pain to even get in for.
Miss Bella
Well-Known Member
Some healthcare workers refuse to take COVID-19 vaccine, even with priority access
Doubts about the vaccine among healthcare workers could have serious implications for public health, say experts.
www.latimes.com
Nursing Doubts About the Vaccine | Think Global Health
Approximately two-thirds of U.S. nurses are hesitant or unwilling to accept the new coronavirus vaccines
www.thinkglobalhealth.org
60% of nursing home staff in Ohio are refusing to get vaccinated, according to the state governor
"We aren't going to make them, but we wish they had a higher compliance," said DeWine, as he expressed frustration at the progress of the vaccinations
www.businessinsider.com
To those of you that think I'm the only healthcare worker in America not willing to be guinea pig for this new roll out. I can provide more media if you need it.
By the way I'm not an anti-vaxxer, gaslighter, or custodian.
nickys
Premium Member
I think there’s a huge difference between using a laughing emoji on a post that is simply “making a point” and doing the same on a post which is about someone’s recent bereavement.
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
The top two headlines are a little misleading, but that's news for you. And you certainly can't control the headlines. The LA Times article's first quote is from a 31 year old nurse who is six months pregnant. I'm hoping anyone who reads that or similar stories would understand her reasonable position to be hesitant. Maybe even into the first months of lactation, IDK to be honest. But she is assuredly counting on others, as is the rest of the human population, to get vaccinated if and when possible.Some healthcare workers refuse to take COVID-19 vaccine, even with priority access
Doubts about the vaccine among healthcare workers could have serious implications for public health, say experts.
Nursing Doubts About the Vaccine | Think Global Health
Approximately two-thirds of U.S. nurses are hesitant or unwilling to accept the new coronavirus vaccines
60% of nursing home staff in Ohio are refusing to get vaccinated, according to the state governor
"We aren't going to make them, but we wish they had a higher compliance," said DeWine, as he expressed frustration at the progress of the vaccinations
To those of you that think I'm the only healthcare worker in America not willing to be guinea pig for this new roll out. I can provide more media if you need it.
By the way I'm not an anti-vaxxer, gaslighter, or custodian.
The second article is an opinion piece that is actually meant to help people a little hesitant to receive the vaccine "come around." The article comes from a place of understanding, but ends with a CCRN understanding the risk/reward is too great in being vaccinated's favor. It's a well written opinion piece meant for a target audience that comes from a great place. With a terrible headline. Again, I'm not coming at this as an attack on you.
As for Ohio's LTC staff, I'm honestly not going to click there. Staffing at LT facilities is so varied, that I'm not surprised at all by that number of hesitancy (not refusal) that more closely mimics the general population.
DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
Agree on everything you wrote. This quote was from the LA article which stands out:
The scientific evidence is clear regarding the safety and efficacy of the vaccines after trials involving tens of thousands of participants, including elderly people and those with chronic health conditions. The shots are recommended for everyone except those who have had a severe allergic reaction to any of the ingredients.
Still, skepticism remains.
Very telling in a article meant to explain why some healthcare workers are “waiting “ to get it as some say. But alas.. we move on.
Miss Bella
Well-Known Member
The stats are about the same at my hospital. At least 50% are opting out. More doctors getting it than nurses that’s for sure. Nurses are generally more hesitant, but we have doctors that won’t even enter a Covid room. I could pull more articles. I don’t think the media has an agenda here.
This is an excerpt from the second article. The survey was taken by a union group which also represents other healthcare workers. I would give more weight to one taken by the ANA - which is a larger, older, professional, RN only association. Also, even if the survey included only RNs, 13,000 out of 3.8 million nurses is still not the majority.
"A recent survey of nearly 13,000 nurses by the American Nurses Federation found that one third of us would refuse the vaccine, and another third were unsure whether to take it. A similar American Journal of Nursing poll found that nurses were far less willing than physicians to take the vaccine.
These findings cast a troubling shadow over the country’s upcoming vaccination campaign. With infection rates and deaths surging across the United States, the specter of a large number of nurses refusing to be inoculated could greatly complicate efforts to bring the pandemic under control. There are roughly 3.8 million nurses, making us the largest health-care profession. And people are turning to us for answers."
"A recent survey of nearly 13,000 nurses by the American Nurses Federation found that one third of us would refuse the vaccine, and another third were unsure whether to take it. A similar American Journal of Nursing poll found that nurses were far less willing than physicians to take the vaccine.
These findings cast a troubling shadow over the country’s upcoming vaccination campaign. With infection rates and deaths surging across the United States, the specter of a large number of nurses refusing to be inoculated could greatly complicate efforts to bring the pandemic under control. There are roughly 3.8 million nurses, making us the largest health-care profession. And people are turning to us for answers."
DisneyDebRob
Well-Known Member
I just called my cousin who is a nurse to get a feel of what’s going on at her hospital. She said 26 out of 28 nurses in her area got it. One was pregnant and didn’t get it and one just wasn’t sure if she should but she also said she decided to get it today or tomorrow after thinking things through. Probably not the same everywhere of course but she was happy with the support of co workers determination on wiping this thing out and being able to talk to their patients with the knowledge of knowing they already got it.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
People are free to choose to do whatever they want. There is no national mandate to be vaccinated and nobody will be forced to take a vaccine that’s only approved for emergency use. All that being said it is the only way to get to an end to this pandemic or at least the only way to have it end in 2021. If someone has some sort of idea as to how the pandemic ends quickly without widespread use of a vaccine I’m all ears. The alternative is we wait for natural herd immunity and this drags on for potentially years. A few months ago we didn’t even know if a viable vaccine was possible or how quickly one would be approved and now we have 2 in the US with 3 more working through phase 3 trials. Such amazing progress, but the vaccines aren’t worth anything if people don’t take them. It would be tragic to see this pandemic rage on for many months or years longer because of people’s lack of desire to get vaccinated.
Here is the bottom line, if we are here this time next year talking about Covid restrictions, case numbers, maybe millions dead by then it will be because people chose that path and blame will fall directly on people not willing to get vaccinated. We have an “easy” out with the vaccines. We don’t have to show any discipline or self control or close businesses or restrict our activity in any way. We just have to show up (twice) and get stuck with a needle and maybe have a soar arm and flu like symptoms for a few hours or a day. Small price to pay to get out of this pandemic. For people on the fence do some real research on vaccines. Understand the history of vaccine failures in the past. There were issues with the original polio vaccines and even H1N1 in 1976 but those are the worst cases in history and the people severely impacted can be counted in the hundreds out of millions and millions of people who were vaccinated. In all of those cases Tje adverse reactions happened within hours or days of vaccination not years later. To my knowledge there has never been a vaccine distributed that showed widespread severe issues years after vaccination. Millions of people have already received these vaccines and millions more will before most of the public has access to them. If something bad was going to happen it most likely already would have popped up.
Here is the bottom line, if we are here this time next year talking about Covid restrictions, case numbers, maybe millions dead by then it will be because people chose that path and blame will fall directly on people not willing to get vaccinated. We have an “easy” out with the vaccines. We don’t have to show any discipline or self control or close businesses or restrict our activity in any way. We just have to show up (twice) and get stuck with a needle and maybe have a soar arm and flu like symptoms for a few hours or a day. Small price to pay to get out of this pandemic. For people on the fence do some real research on vaccines. Understand the history of vaccine failures in the past. There were issues with the original polio vaccines and even H1N1 in 1976 but those are the worst cases in history and the people severely impacted can be counted in the hundreds out of millions and millions of people who were vaccinated. In all of those cases Tje adverse reactions happened within hours or days of vaccination not years later. To my knowledge there has never been a vaccine distributed that showed widespread severe issues years after vaccination. Millions of people have already received these vaccines and millions more will before most of the public has access to them. If something bad was going to happen it most likely already would have popped up.
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
As I read yesterday's episode of the Bored and the Restless, I was glad I was at my phone and not a desk. It gave me a bit of time to process what transpired here yesterday. A few thoughts have stuck around, though.
First and foremost, I'd like to add my condolences to @helenabear's list of supporters. Laughing at grief is disgusting, and I'm sure it led you to fits of rage and opinions that couldn't come across here.
As for the part of the day that stuck out most;
For anyone who honestly thinks that "healthcare workers," or "medical professionals," think in lockstep have deluded themselves. We couldn't even keep the billing conspiracy quiet
. There are trauma surgeons and nurses who ride motorcycles to work, orthopedists that wear out their joints skiing and running, pulmonologists who smoke, obese cardiac surgeons and cardiologists. The point is we know the risks we take every day, but at the end of the day we're human like you. One of the best anesthesiologists I work under contracted COVID in Mexico over Thanksgiving. Because he's human and needed a break with his family. I could have had the same thing happen to me or my family the same week while we were in WDW. Some businesses are operating better than others. WDW was a little uncomfortable for Thanksgiving, but not horribly so. DFW as an airport was the first time in eight months I've panicked for my safety. Dr Birx has seen the worst of this, even if from 30k feet, and even she hosted family in a vacation home. Can we do better? Maybe and probably, but remember our human side, please.
To think it should be vaccinate or nothing, while the two we have on market here are still investigational (though I trust them and received dose one with our first Pfizer shipment), is being disingenuous at best. We are some 21MM strong and battered. I personally don't understand why an ICU (or even step-down/medical obs caring directly with COVID) nurse, CNA, RT, PA, etc, would be hesitant when seeing the alternative, but the fact is they're there. What I find most interesting from personal experience is that the same nurses who are hesitant on vaccines are posting prayer requests for their exhaustion and concern over PPE. This is perhaps the best PPE we have been able to get in a year.
Will we treat other essential industries the same way? Will we tell Teamsters who are a little leery that they can't deliver supplies across our nation? Will longshoremen or meat packers be told to not provide their essential services to keep out economy moving? I'm in full support of heavily incentivizing people to come out and get their shots, because it is 100% the fastest way out of this. But compulsion by shame or at the end of a barrel isn't going to work for our society. The biggest incentive is probably for sports leagues and the travel industry to have some form of immunity passport for the short term, allowing more dense gatherings of people who, even if infected, won't become a hospital burden.
As has been rightfully pointed out, demand is currently outstripping supply. So long as the doses don't go to waste, whether the vaccine goes to 40yo Irene the RN or 37yo Melissa the lab tech doesn't matter. It's a shot in arm that brings us one arm closer to the end goal. Ask me in 5 months, and if people are still spouting senseless claims then we can have a discussion about whether an eligible but unwilling medical professional should be working in high-risk or high exposure areas when a reasonable alternative exists.
I'm done rambling now, and I hope this made sense. I'm still a little tired.
First and foremost, I'd like to add my condolences to @helenabear's list of supporters. Laughing at grief is disgusting, and I'm sure it led you to fits of rage and opinions that couldn't come across here.
As for the part of the day that stuck out most;
For anyone who honestly thinks that "healthcare workers," or "medical professionals," think in lockstep have deluded themselves. We couldn't even keep the billing conspiracy quiet
. There are trauma surgeons and nurses who ride motorcycles to work, orthopedists that wear out their joints skiing and running, pulmonologists who smoke, obese cardiac surgeons and cardiologists. The point is we know the risks we take every day, but at the end of the day we're human like you. One of the best anesthesiologists I work under contracted COVID in Mexico over Thanksgiving. Because he's human and needed a break with his family. I could have had the same thing happen to me or my family the same week while we were in WDW. Some businesses are operating better than others. WDW was a little uncomfortable for Thanksgiving, but not horribly so. DFW as an airport was the first time in eight months I've panicked for my safety. Dr Birx has seen the worst of this, even if from 30k feet, and even she hosted family in a vacation home. Can we do better? Maybe and probably, but remember our human side, please.To think it should be vaccinate or nothing, while the two we have on market here are still investigational (though I trust them and received dose one with our first Pfizer shipment), is being disingenuous at best. We are some 21MM strong and battered. I personally don't understand why an ICU (or even step-down/medical obs caring directly with COVID) nurse, CNA, RT, PA, etc, would be hesitant when seeing the alternative, but the fact is they're there. What I find most interesting from personal experience is that the same nurses who are hesitant on vaccines are posting prayer requests for their exhaustion and concern over PPE. This is perhaps the best PPE we have been able to get in a year.
Will we treat other essential industries the same way? Will we tell Teamsters who are a little leery that they can't deliver supplies across our nation? Will longshoremen or meat packers be told to not provide their essential services to keep out economy moving? I'm in full support of heavily incentivizing people to come out and get their shots, because it is 100% the fastest way out of this. But compulsion by shame or at the end of a barrel isn't going to work for our society. The biggest incentive is probably for sports leagues and the travel industry to have some form of immunity passport for the short term, allowing more dense gatherings of people who, even if infected, won't become a hospital burden.
As has been rightfully pointed out, demand is currently outstripping supply. So long as the doses don't go to waste, whether the vaccine goes to 40yo Irene the RN or 37yo Melissa the lab tech doesn't matter. It's a shot in arm that brings us one arm closer to the end goal. Ask me in 5 months, and if people are still spouting senseless claims then we can have a discussion about whether an eligible but unwilling medical professional should be working in high-risk or high exposure areas when a reasonable alternative exists.
I'm done rambling now, and I hope this made sense. I'm still a little tired.
seabreezept813
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of distrust from the educator side occurs because of lack of transparency. We had about 30 active cases going into Christmas break but the school insisted that there is no building transmission. Most of what my coworkers and I have been saying is okay then do some population testing and prove it. Keep in mind my school is small so with hybrid probably have 200-300 students in the building a day. It’s hard to believe that it’s safe for kids to eat unmasked in a cafeteria in a town whose positivity rate is 10%...yet indoor dining has been shown to be problematic. So there is this general attitude that schools are exempt from the basic risk factors that other places are not.. which just seems generally sketchy.People are looking at the data. The problem tends to be with older teachers not feeling safe and parents who question the data wondering if they are getting the correct data or are schools just pushing to be open. I get all sides of it. Here’s another article from Massachusetts saying about the same thing as the article you posted. There are still clusters popping up but they feel it wasn’t from transmission in schools but outside of schools. Who knows who to believe anymore with this stuff.. seems someone always has a agenda. We need the vaccine more then ever.
How often is COVID-19 spreading in Massachusetts schools? - The Boston Globe
In the pitched debate over how to get students back to school, nuance is often lost. Teachers’ unions seem to suggest aging school buildings are danger zones unless proven otherwise. Politicians and some public health specialists promote schools as if they are safety zones from a pandemic.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It may be semantics but there’s a difference between no proven cases of transmission and no transmission. I know it’s a different age group, but I have a co-worker who has 2 kids in daycare and both he and his wife tested positive for Covid recently and they both work from home and hadn’t been out for anything more than groceries in weeks. The daycare informed them that 2 of the workers tested positive so they suspect that their kids brought Covid home. Since the kids have no symptoms they didn’t test them, but I suspect that’s the common a lot of places. Many kids are never tested so we don’t know if they had it and just had no or few symptoms. My friend‘s kids both had “colds” about a month ago and stayed virtual for 10 days (they have a hybrid system with a virtual option). The parents never got them tested and the cold like symptoms ended after a few days. Maybe it was a cold, maybe it was Covid. If it was Covid they most likely got it at school since they weren’t going anywhere else.
Near me the number of cases in the schools dropped down once they cancelled after school activities and youth sports. We had a large outbreak from ice hockey and most of the cases in the schools that were able to be traced anywhere were from kids spreading it to each other after school. I do think the lunch room is sketchy. For my younger son in elementary school they are pretty strict and actually make them eat lunch at spaced desks that are in staggered rows. For middle and high school it’s a joke. They block off every other seat but from my 8th grader‘s own admission the kids don’t stay where they should and there’s definitely no masks while at lunch.
Polkadotdress
Well-Known Member
Here in Central FL, several counties have ceased taking appointments for vaccines "until further notice." In addition, those scheduled to receive the shot today in Osceola County were cancelled, citing 'lack of vaccine." Meanwhile my brother (healthcare provider) in NE FL, who was scheduled to get his shot today in Daytona...also cancelled for same reason.
So, clearly it's going well.
So, clearly it's going well.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Still 3M people vaccinated. Only 1% of the population, but better than zero
. Glass half full outlook...or maybe not half full, just a little drip in the bottom of the glass...but at least we have a glass 
I've seen on TV senior citizens camping out overnight lining up sitting in lawn chairs. There are lower temps that's not a good thing.
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