Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[_caleb]

I wan't concerned about a little common pull on the rope of society; there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even expressing the same opinion countless times until it becomes a relentless harangue is just fine. I'm less fine with labeling people who don't agree with you selfish and ignorant, but I understand that's how some people choose to express themselves. As long as it doesn't violate the forum rules, have at it.

What causes me to balk is the attitude displayed toward people who don't agree with another person's opinions on how they should behave - "those people" who "thought it appropriate" to go to WDW during a pandemic. The fact is that WDW is open now with stringent precautions and people are going to go there. What's more, since this is a Disney forum, they may come here to talk about it. Getting upset that people are talking about mask compliance and plexiglass dividers seems unreasonable.

Please understand, I'm not talking about people who refuse to comply with current laws or regulations, but people who are choosing to engage in activities that are permitted but which many of us, myself included, would not allow if we were in charge.

People in a free society have this maddening habit of behaving in ways that others find strongly objectionable, contrary to the common good and downright harmful. It's fine to try to convince them otherwise, but arrogant to treat them as fools or pariahs when they continue to disagree. We did that in 2016 with disastrous results.

You may have blocked me by now (I hope not!), but you may have seen that my perspective has changed somewhat over the course of this thread. I've posted far fewer times to this thread than you have, but I've read every post and appreciated the different perspectives. My opinions have changed since this whole thing began. As the numbers have gone up, my patience with reductionistic and short-sighted thinking has decreased.

It sounds like my assertion that going to WDW during a pandemic is "selfish" really bothered you. I am truly sorry that anyone would have been offended by anything I've written here. I try to express my opinions clearly. Sounds like maybe I've been too direct. I come to this site for good conversation (which I find frequently!) about Disney (which it usually is!) with people who share my love for the parks. I do not want to create a negative environment here, even in this thread.

 

[SamusAranX]

All of the above.

I personally would not go to Disney world right now, but if a person or family who:

1. Doesn’t have their elderly ones living with them or high risk relatives living with them (I.e. they don’t have a choice in the matter if you bring back covid)
2. Doesn’t work in a setting such as a hospital, doctors office, nursing home, hospice, etc where they are around such ones, or even better work form home (again who have no choice in the matter if you bring back covid)
3. Will be wearing masks and social distancing in their travels.
4. avoid indoor dining and bars, the two major high risk scenarios while there
5. Test or quarantine upon return home

I can’t really sit there and point the finger as they are doing things the safest way while balancing or in this case all but eliminating exposure to those around them, especially anyone who stands to lose the most from contracting COVID

 

[_caleb]

We shouldn’t just be going anywhere and everywhere at whim, but telling people they shouldn’t be going out at all except for essentials is carrying it now to the extreme. Which is what a poster who I will not name is fully beating down the doors for.

I think you're talking about me? (Not wanting to presume.) I honestly never thought it could be considered "extreme" to think that people should stay home as much as possible during the pandemic. Is this extreme? Because in my mind, I've been saying the same thing:

I appreciate the thought and effort you're putting into getting together with loved ones safely.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I personally would not go to Disney world right now, but if a person or family who:

1. Doesn’t have their elderly ones living with them or high risk relatives living with them (I.e. they don’t have a choice in the matter if you bring back covid)
2. Doesn’t work in a setting such as a hospital, doctors office, nursing home, hospice, etc where they are around such ones, or even better work form home (again who have no choice in the matter if you bring back covid)
3. Will be wearing masks and social distancing in their travels.
4. avoid indoor dining and bars, the two major high risk scenarios while there
5. Test or quarantine upon return home

I can’t really sit there and point the finger as they are doing things the safest way while balancing or in this case all but eliminating exposure to those around them, especially anyone who stands to lose the most from contracting COVID

I just wanted to make it clear that COVID can happen anywhere, not just in the home or on vacation. We take risks every day. People should do what makes them feel comfortable.

 

[Chi84]

Not that I really disagree with anything you said...
But you seem to be doing a philosophical “deep dive” on things that are becoming more simple/practical by the day.

The “opinions” have been given more than their due for 6 months...they’ve had their day. And they have proven to be as worthless as we could have guessed up front.

I think in this country, one of the things that the populace is wrestling with is the realization that “things always work out for us” because of our name and history has been shattered. The era of invincibility has been proven to be a myth and we are paying the consequences of an unwavering belief in that.

Most people have not confronted anything as overwhelming as this in their lifetime - I sure know I haven't. Obviously, I don't know this, but I think if we as a country had been given a strong, consistent, truthful statement about this virus (including the words "we don't know" when appropriate), we may have come together better.

I remember seeing the stock market take a dive late last year or early this year and wondering why people getting sick in China was having such an enormous effect. Then the virus appeared in Washington and the messages immediately were mixed - it was either like "getting a bad cold" and would disappear with the warmer weather or it was the beginning of the end of life as we know it. Then we were lied to about masks and our politicians did what they do best - made everything about their chances for reelection. I don't care about anyone's politics - what we needed in the way of leadership was the exact opposite of what we got.

 

[Chi84]

You may have blocked me by now (I hope not!), I've posted far fewer times to this thread than you have

I wouldn't block someone just because I didn't agree with an opinion because that changes from subject to subject. And I'll make it a point to find something else to do with my time now

 

[danlb_2000]

And? The Democrat governors and some Rebublican governors have gone against what he has pushed for with COVID and their states are still having issues anyway. Therefore, it isn't an issue with following the wrong political leader. If you really think that the situation would be very different had Hillary won in 2016 you are naïve. There would have been mask mandates tied to funding and the initial lockdown would have been longer by a few weeks but otherwise the situation right now wouldn't be drastically different. She would have had the same economic pressure with a re-election campaign coming up.

I absolutely think it would have been better under a different president, I am not sure how anyone could think otherwise. I doubt any other president would have constantly downplayed and politicized the virus, would have spread false and misleading information about the virus, would have ignored CDC recommendations and belittled people who did follow them. Even without policy actions these things alone would have made a difference.

 

[SamusAranX]

I just wanted to make it clear that COVID can happen anywhere, not just in the home or on vacation. We take risks every day. People should do what makes them feel comfortable.

I agree that people should do what makes them comfortable, but I also don’t think it’s license to throw caution to the wind. There’s a balance, but just because you’re comfortable going to a bar, refusing to wear a mask because of your “rights”, or live with people at home who could die from COVID, doesn’t necessarily make it ok.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Oh, if 2020 didn't lift the veil for you on this, I'll have what you are smoking.

I don’t smoke and never even tried weed, but I think folks who think, "Things always work out for us” because of our name and history" are the ones smoking something, you should ask them to pass the joint.

 

[_caleb]

I wouldn't block someone just because I didn't agree with an opinion because that changes from subject to subject. And I'll make it a point to find something else to do with my time now

Yikes! That's not what I meant! (Poor choice of wording on my part there.)

I meant: "it might seem that my lack of participation (compared to others including you) means that I haven't been following along from the beginning or that I don't appreciate reading the opinions of people who disagree with me, but I assure you that I do!"

 

[SamusAranX]

I think you're talking about me? (Not wanting to presume.) I honestly never thought it could be considered "extreme" to think that people should stay home as much as possible during the pandemic. Is this extreme? Because in my mind, I've been saying the same thing:
View attachment 512614
I appreciate the thought and effort you're putting into getting together with loved ones safely.

Yes it was you. You caught me

Again, there’s some nuance involved. Yes for short periods of time, there are areas, quite a few right now, where staying home as much as possible may be needed to help ease the burden on the health care system.
But it’s not a blanket, and also should be viewed in mind with personal circumstances in balance with what you see around you (see my long rant). I live in an area where are hospitals are managing, and again, I am minimizing if not outright eliminating any contact with those who would be likely to be hospitalized or are in a definitive risk category. The only close contact I have beyond a select group of friends with anyone else is my weekly trip to Publix. All other contact is distanced, quick and incidental (I.e. passing someone on a hike, drive thru food pickup, etc.), the kind that really isn’t responsible for covid. Anytime I must go inside for something (my doctors or blood work last week, Publix, etc) , I wear a mask. And I’m in a state that has allowed a free for all at this point in fully reopening (you know which one already I am sure). Yet I am voluntarily taking these steps. I recognize there’s a lot out there who need to be forced and told to make educated and nuanced decisions, especially in areas like the Midwest right now which are underwater and struggling. But it’s not black and white. Just my two cents.

 

[_caleb]

Yes it was you. You caught me

Again, there’s some nuance involved. Yes for short periods of time, there are areas, quite a few right now, where staying home as much as possible may be needed to help ease the burden on the health care system.
But it’s not a blanket, and also should be viewed in mind with personal circumstances in balance with what you see around you (see my long rant). I live in an area where are hospitals are managing, and again, I am minimizing if not outright eliminating any contact with those who would be likely to be hospitalized or are in a definitive risk category. The only close contact I have beyond a select group of friends with anyone else is my weekly trip to Publix. All other contact is distanced, quick and incidental (I.e. passing someone on a hike, drive thru food pickup, etc.), the kind that really isn’t responsible for covid. And I’m in a state that has allowed a free for all at this point in fully reopening (you know which one already I am sure). Yet I am voluntarily taking these steps. I recognize there’s a lot out there who need to be forced and told to make educated and nuanced decisions, especially in areas like the Midwest right now which are underwater and struggling. But it’s not black and white. Just my two cents.

I completely agree. I supposed I'm just hoping we can agree on a baseline disposition on all this. Your've outlined all the ways you're being careful and taking others into account and considering the effects of your actions. This is exactly what I think we should all be doing. But it's obvious to me that far too few people are putting this level of effort into how they are choosing to live right now. Is it too much to say, "The default option should be to stay home?" or "When in doubt, stay home?" Especially for those who aren't willing/able to put the sort of thought into it that you are.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

"Things always work out for us” because of our name and history" there are folks that think like this? That's magical thinking.

I always thought what happens to me happens because of what I do or don't do. I do attribute things to luck, both positive and negative, but it really comes down to what I do or don't do.

You are under a complete misconception that you’re master of your own.

As far as where you get dinner and how many times a day you go to Disneyland...yes.

But you’re still a part in a complex interwoven social strata that USUALLY doesn’t show itself to be all that interconnected. But when it does...the error in “ima do whata want” (no matter what) starts to show.

Case in point: now.

 

[GoofGoof]

I was just replying to the previous post. Besides, this thread is tagged politics so it seems like the correct place.

It's not over..... Yet.

If the DEMS take the majority in the Senate, THEN it's over... If that happens, may God help us...

The politics label is just a warning that the topic of Covid by default will have some political aspect to it. There’s no way to talk about Covid without talking about the government response or lack of response. This is not in the general politics section so it’s not a free for all to talk about the recently ended election process or the Senate or the Supreme Court or any other non-Covid political stuff. Steve popped in and confirmed this too so not just my opinion.

 

[hopemax]

You are under a complete misconception that you’re master of your own.

As far as where you get dinner and how many times a day you go to Disneyland...yes.

But you’re still a part in a complex interwoven social strata that USUALLY doesn’t show itself to be all that interconnected. But when it does...the error in “ima do whata want” (no matter what) starts to show.

Case in point: now.

Actually, seeing how other people view society and their place in it has been enlightening. It explains a lot about why certain political issues go the way they do. Like the role public health plays in economic success. If you believe they are connected, then if you want the best economy you support public health initiatives. If you believe they are disconnected, then you don't need public health.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t smoke and never even tried weed, but I think folks who think, "Things always work out for us” because of our name and history" are the ones smoking something, you should ask them to pass the joint.

I don’t think you’re much of a history student.

In the last 140 years...what major situation OF CHOICE didn’t work out in the United States gaining more wealth and prosperity than anyone else?

I’d say Vietnam...and nothing else.

Our “air” is baked in. We are failing here though. Like it or not.

Doctors Without Borders is an apolitical organization that identifies worldwide health crisis and dispatches caregivers to flashpoints...

Guess where they have been deploying since the summer??

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Actually, seeing how other people view society and their place in it has been enlightening. It explains a lot about why certain political issues go the way they do. Like the role public health plays in economic success. If you believe they are connected, then if you want the best economy you support public health initiatives. If you believe they are disconnected, then you don't need public health.

Exactly...

Which is probably why Mr. Grumpy Anaheim and the Florida Director of Public Relations are the only ones around here still pushing nonsense.

 

[GoofGoof]

I get what you are saying. When I get together in private there is distancing but no masks. Also, the people that I get together with either work from home or isolated in an office nowhere near anybody else. Basically, none of us do anything that puts us in a high risk situation of being infected. Well, I did attend an outdoor superspreader event a couple of weeks ago but I haven't attended a private gathering since then.

On the lottery, if 1 million people buy a ticket, they'd have to all pick different numbers otherwise 1 person will not win. That's how the powerball and megamillions end up with such huge jackpots.



I don't think I've ever said "without restrictions." I've said that if a grocery store can operate with certain restrictions a craft store should be allowed to operate with the same restrictions. I've also said that if the restrictions negatively effect the business and are mandated, the mandating authority should have to compensate the business for the lost revenue.

I guess put another way, I want to go to WDW on occasion. For four months I couldn't do that. Now I can with restrictions. I'm fine with the restrictions even though it isn't the same exact experience as before.

If we all followed all the restrictions (and in some places the restrictions existed, like masks and limits on bars in FL) then we would be in a lot better shape. The problem is everyone thinks they are the exception. My friends aren’t sick so we are OK to get together. Nobody in my family does risky stuff so it’s OK to get together for Thanksgiving. You talked about regularly going to local bars but then said you don’t do anything risky. I know it’s a matter of opinion, but to me those things contradict each other. I think it’s a slippery slope to say it’s ok to get together with others as long as you feel you haven’t done anything risky. You really don’t know sure what others are doing 24/7.

 

[GoofGoof]

My kid’s school (the whole county) just went back to full virtual starting the Monday of Thanksgiving week for at least 2 weeks but I’m guessing it’s more of a see you after New Years....maybe MLK day I wish it wasn’t so, but with cases doing what they are doing it’s a no brainer. Sad to see that people couldn’t help themselves and now we are paying the price.

 

[danlb_2000]

My kid’s school (the whole county) just went back to full virtual starting the Monday of Thanksgiving week for at least 2 weeks but I’m guessing it’s more of a see you after New Years....maybe MLK day I wish it wasn’t so, but with cases doing what they are doing it’s a no brainer. Sad to see that people couldn’t help themselves and now we are paying the price.

Since a lot of people probably aren't going to give up holiday gatherings it would probably be a good idea to move as many kids to virtual as possible, and get also get as many adults working from home as possible for two months so even if people do have holiday gatherings it will help limit the damage it will do.