Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[MissingDisney]

While I am a newbie I joined to read about people's experiences with COVID and WALT DISNEY WORLD. I think the topic is COVID and WDW general discussion which would lead any intelligent human to believe I am about to read about COVID relating to WDW. Yet I just wasted my time reading about national parks, RVs, cruise lines, medicine side effects, and political BS. IMO that's just BOGUS and the mods should do a better job so we can stay on topic.

First time on a discussion form? WELCOME!
BTW, I'll save you a lot of time doing any research of your own......if you read it on the internet, it must be true.

 

[MissingDisney]

Coincidentally enough, my wife and I have been watching GAC's marathons of "Goin' RV" recently even though we have no intention of actually buying one ourselves. I guess I just like yelling at the screen when they pick what I've deemed to be the "wrong one."

I do the same thing with "House Hunters, Beachfront Bargain Hunters, etc." even though I know full well going in they've already bought the house they picked before they filmed the show.

 

[Tink242424]

One thing I’ve read multiple times here is that the country should have done a mandatory two-week stay-at-home order in the beginning and that this pandemic would be over. If that’s the case, why not just do that now? Shut down the entire country for two weeks and require all businesses except essential ones (hospitals, urgent care facilities, nursing homes, grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, transportation companies, etc.) to close. Require everyone to remain home unless traveling to work at one of these businesses or to the grocery store or seeking medical care. If doing that would end this thing, why wouldn’t it be done? Utilize the National Guard to distribute groceries and supplies to those who can’t otherwise get them during that time.

The thing is that most areas DID do this... I'm in NJ and we were hit hard in the beginning and we did this and it didn't completely eliminate COVID. You are being lied to to think that this is the way out and this is the reason that we have spread. In order to completely eliminate spread you have to lock everyone in wherever they are (no going out for anything - so all essential personnel stay at their job and don't go home at all) for about a month. That way anyone who is going to get sick - gets sick and either recovers or dies (can't go to the hospital as it is a total lockdown). We all know that isn't practical as there is no way to enforce that.

Once this virus started circulating the world there was no stuffing that genie back in the bottle. The US is not very different then the rest of the countries on this planet that is dealing with this pandemic. We are just much larger and each state/region is dealing with this virus slightly different - some better, some worse. At the end of the day we can argue about who did it better but we will get through this. I just hate the argument that some magic pill like lockdowns or masks or social distancing will completely stop the spread of COVID. It won't and the media knows this but they keep pushing this narrative. All those measures do is slow the spread which certainly helps. We won't be out of this until we either reach herd immunity, a vaccine is developed & distributed or a highly effective treatment is discovered and is able to be distributed easily. Until then we just have to realize that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have. There is way too much blame going on around here.

 

[SamusAranX]

The thing is that most areas DID do this... I'm in NJ and we were hit hard in the beginning and we did this and it didn't completely eliminate COVID. You are being lied to to think that this is the way out and this is the reason that we have spread. In order to completely eliminate spread you have to lock everyone in wherever they are (no going out for anything - so all essential personnel stay at their job and don't go home at all) for about a month. That way anyone who is going to get sick - gets sick and either recovers or dies (can't go to the hospital as it is a total lockdown). We all know that isn't practical as there is no way to enforce that.

Once this virus started circulating the world there was no stuffing that genie back in the bottle. The US is not very different then the rest of the countries on this planet that is dealing with this pandemic. We are just much larger and each state/region is dealing with this virus slightly different - some better, some worse. At the end of the day we can argue about who did it better but we will get through this. I just hate the argument that some magic pill like lockdowns or masks or social distancing will completely stop the spread of COVID. It won't and the media knows this but they keep pushing this narrative. All those measures do is slow the spread which certainly helps. We won't be out of this until we either reach herd immunity, a vaccine is developed & distributed or a highly effective treatment is discovered and is able to be distributed easily. Until then we just have to realize that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have. There is way too much blame going on around here.

Lockdowns were sold to the public as only to flatten the curve, not stop the virus in its tracks. to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed and loss of life from lack of care or triage situations.

some, not all, moved the goal posts and basically advocate lockdowns until it’s over, which isn’t feasible.

what *is* feasible, is wearing masks, avoiding large groups, healthy habits, and so on. It won’t eliminate the virus but it will slow it down further

 

[DisneyCane]

One thing I’ve read multiple times here is that the country should have done a mandatory two-week stay-at-home order in the beginning and that this pandemic would be over. If that’s the case, why not just do that now? Shut down the entire country for two weeks and require all businesses except essential ones (hospitals, urgent care facilities, nursing homes, grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, transportation companies, etc.) to close. Require everyone to remain home unless traveling to work at one of these businesses or to the grocery store or seeking medical care. If doing that would end this thing, why wouldn’t it be done? Utilize the National Guard to distribute groceries and supplies to those who can’t otherwise get them during that time.

It wouldn't have worked then and it wouldn't work now. First, with the incubation period and the time somebody can remain contagious, it would have to be much longer than two weeks. Probably closer to two months. Second, for it to work, you can't have ANY businesses open or ANY facility where people go there and then come into contact with others and potentially bring the virus home. Finally, you would have to have the borders 100% sealed and keep them sealed until there are no more cases in the world (or you can isolate and accurately test every single person to enter the country). Of course, it doesn't take much research to know that there is absolutely no way to completely seal the border.

The other thing is that the only way it could possibly be legal is if martial law was declared.

While it is possible to slow the spread/flatten the curve and possibly reduce the total number of infections over time (although I'm not sure about that part yet), this virus can not possibly be eradicated using isolation and quarantines. There are simply way too many asymptomatic carriers or people with extremely mild cases to be able to identify a high enough percentage of infections. Contact tracing can't work either because there can be too many degrees of separation from an asymptomatic carrier to somebody finally getting tested to ever identify the source in anywhere near a high enough percentage of cases.

 

[danlb_2000]

You don’t risk **** bleeding to prevent mild, occasional arthritis pain?


I like “Tell your doctor if you’re allergic to ‘xxxx’”. Shouldn’t my doctor know or have some clue as to what constitutes glidocubine-malbuterol?

I like the one that says "Tell your doctor if you have had an organ transplant". Is that really something you wouldn't think to tell your doctor?!

 

[Miss Bella]

While I am a newbie I joined to read about people's experiences with COVID and WALT DISNEY WORLD. I think the topic is COVID and WDW general discussion which would lead any intelligent human to believe I am about to read about COVID relating to WDW. Yet I just wasted my time reading about national parks, RVs, cruise lines, medicine side effects, and political BS. IMO that's just BOGUS and the mods should do a better job so we can stay on topic.

I just returned from WDW what would you like to know? This thread has never really been about WDW and Covid. It's been more debate on masks vs no masks, lockdowns vs no lockdowns, vaccines vs no vaccines etc. etc. and yes there are political undertones. I am surprised the thread has lasted so long, but they don't lock threads on this forum.

I'm not sure how many people on this Forum have been to WDW during the pandemic, but I have. If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them for you.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I just returned from WDW what would you like to know? This thread has never really been about WDW and Covid. It's been more debate on masks vs no masks, lockdowns vs no lockdowns, vaccines vs no vaccines etc. etc. and yes there are political undertones. I am surprised the thread has lasted so long, but they don't lock threads on this forum.

I'm not sure how many people on this Forum have been to WDW during the pandemic, but I have. If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them for you.

I think this thread will last for a while due to its diversity, whew, a very broad spectrum of views and opinions. That said, DARWIN! Those that improvise, adapt and overcome will do quite well dealing with COVID19 and enjoy a modified but Magical time at WDW. I fully realize it may be a lot to ask but some common sense would be good. Oh, I will stir the pot. BAH! herd immunity is a fantasy.

 

[sullyinMT]

Lockdowns were sold to the public as only to flatten the curve, not stop the virus in its tracks. to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed and loss of life from lack of care or triage situations.

some, not all, moved the goal posts and basically advocate lockdowns until it’s over, which isn’t feasible.

what *is* feasible, is wearing masks, avoiding large groups, healthy habits, and so on. It won’t eliminate the virus but it will slow it down further

Exactly. I don't think anyone in their right mind ever said that lock downs would fully eradicate the virus, or any disease. They were always sold as "slow the spread," "flatten the curve." Many experts and articles have even expressed that by flattening the curve we are prolonging the duration of the pandemic, because cases will slowly play out over time as opposed to an exponential rise to "herd immunity." The point, as you stated, is to provide the healthcare community time to triage and treat as many of the cases that need it as possible. We have largely reached that goal and are trying to figure out how best to move forward without opening the sluice full on.
Now, we enter the new phase. It was haphazard and bungled in some cases in the beginning of reopening plans across the US. But we are getting better at it, and learning from each other. That's the mess that is science (and the ART of medicine), but it is fascinating from 40,000 ft.

 

[Miss Bella]

Lockdowns were sold to the public as only to flatten the curve, not stop the virus in its tracks. to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed and loss of life from lack of care or triage situations.

some, not all, moved the goal posts and basically advocate lockdowns until it’s over, which isn’t feasible.

what *is* feasible, is wearing masks, avoiding large groups, healthy habits, and so on. It won’t eliminate the virus but it will slow it down further

We were locked down back in April when we had no community spread. It was ridiculous the hospitals were empty. No one was coming to the hospital because of all fear-mongering and hysteria they were hearing from the media.
We opened May 11 and about a month after we opened up we started having community spread in certain areas, mostly the Hispanic neighborhoods where there is a lot of multigenerational housing and the Navajo Nation. We never locked down again except to close bars.

People wore masks and did there best, Hospitals handled the surge. It lasted about six weeks and the worst was over. The stores and restaurants are always full. People are going about there lives albeit with a mask on. I feel like we did a good job of handling it without completely destroying our economy.
I'm not sure how states like California are going to recover economically. I was there two weeks ago and there was still no indoor dining. We've had indoor dining since May and our numbers have improved more than theirs.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I like the one that says "Tell your doctor if you have had an organ transplant". Is that really something you wouldn't think to tell your doctor?!

Maybe not something like an organ transplant, because the medications they take will give that one away. But because I'm always getting new patients and their transfer records are sometimes either poor or non-existant, you'd be surprised what some patients would forget to tell us. Like previous hepatitis C infection, stroke, colon cancer, joint replacement, etc.

 

[sullyinMT]

Maybe not something like an organ transplant, because the medications they take will give that one away. But because I'm always getting new patients and their transfer records are sometimes either poor or non-existant, you'd be surprised what some patients would forget to tell us. Like previous hepatitis C infection, stroke, colon cancer, joint replacement, etc.

Isn't this the truth? Not sure if VT has an up and running HIE yet, but we are FINALLY getting around to going live with one soon in Montana. The general idea is to improve continuity of care and interoperability in situations like this.

 

[sullyinMT]

We were locked down back in April when we had no community spread. It was ridiculous the hospitals were empty. No one was coming to the hospital because of all fear-mongering and hysteria they were hearing from the media.
We opened May 11 and about a month after we opened up we started having community spread in certain areas, mostly the Hispanic neighborhoods where there is a lot of multigenerational housing and the Navajo Nation. We never locked down again except to close bars.

People wore masks and did there best, Hospitals handled the surge. It lasted about six weeks and the worst was over. The stores and restaurants are always full. People are going about there lives albeit with a mask on. I feel like we did a good job of handling it without completely destroying our economy.
I'm not sure how states like California are going to recover economically. I was there two weeks ago and there was still no indoor dining. We've had indoor dining since May and our numbers have improved more than theirs.

Not sure in AZ, but we are still seeing delays in care for cardiovascular events from this very thing. The messaging wasn't clear that hospitals were still open for everyone, regardless of COVID status. Our trauma response is also markedly stressed from a huge spike in violent crime and DUI MVAs. That may well be our twindemic in my area.
I'd agree with you that the blanket suggestion/response from the surgeon general to suspend all non-elective surgeries (and tell the 57yo who can't walk up a flight of stairs that his valve replacement is "elective" because it's scheduled two weeks from today) was counter-productive for the nation as a whole. Places with active crisis-level surges can make those decisions at a more localized level.

 

[Tink242424]

Lockdowns were sold to the public as only to flatten the curve, not stop the virus in its tracks. to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed and loss of life from lack of care or triage situations.

some, not all, moved the goal posts and basically advocate lockdowns until it’s over, which isn’t feasible.

what *is* feasible, is wearing masks, avoiding large groups, healthy habits, and so on. It won’t eliminate the virus but it will slow it down further

Yes, you are correct. I think the media wants to sell this narrative that people are being selfish and that is why this is spreading. While that is certainly true in some areas for most of the country that is not the case. This virus will spread even with all the measures because it is very contagious and we are human and hyper-vigilance is not sustainable. People make mistakes and it doesn't make them selfish - it makes them human. More compassion would be great.

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't people who are just flat out refusing any measures. I just believe that more of us are doing what we need to than not and that the ones who aren't following the "rules" are more rare.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Not sure in AZ, but we are still seeing delays in care for cardiovascular events from this very thing. The messaging wasn't clear that hospitals were still open for everyone, regardless of COVID status. Our trauma response is also markedly stressed from a huge spike in violent crime and DUI MVAs. That may well be our twindemic in my area.
I'd agree with you that the blanket suggestion/response from the surgeon general to suspend all non-elective surgeries (and tell the 57yo who can't walk up a flight of stairs that his valve replacement is "elective" because it's scheduled two weeks from today) was counter-productive for the nation as a whole. Places with active crisis-level surges can make those decisions at a more localized level.

Ok! All this discussion in and of itself can induce depression and possible cardio vascular issues. It is sad and heart breaking that decisions and policies initiated to deal with COVID19 have created a web of other serious medical issues. It is all very humbling. It is enough to drive one to take a drink or two or better yet! go to WDW and then take a drink or two. The term "wanna get away" has fresh meaning.

 

[Chi84]

While I am a newbie I joined to read about people's experiences with COVID and WALT DISNEY WORLD. I think the topic is COVID and WDW general discussion which would lead any intelligent human to believe I am about to read about COVID relating to WDW. Yet I just wasted my time reading about national parks, RVs, cruise lines, medicine side effects, and political BS. IMO that's just BOGUS and the mods should do a better job so we can stay on topic.

This is a more lightly moderated site than most, and I appreciate that. If you're looking for a more heavily moderated one, they exist - you just need to do a little forum-shopping. There's one where the restaurant moderator will shut down any discussion of a dress code at WDW restaurants that suggests people should exceed her personal standard of "don't stink."

 

[mmascari]

This is how I’ve felt regarding the pandemic and mandatory business shutdowns all along. If the government is not allowing a business to operate (due to no fault of the business) the government should provide at the minimum enough money to cover fixed expenses such as rent and utilities during that time. As well as not collecting property taxes during that period.

Don't forget payroll too.

It really does sound simple from a high level. When we take perfectly legal allowed normal businesses and force them to close for external policy reasons (like a pandemic) and we know they'll be allowed to reopen at some point. It would seem like the government that's imposing this external temporary restriction could include simply pay for the service it's not allowing to occur. There would be no market forces or competition, since policy makes it illegal for the service to be sold to anyone else.

We want a restaurant to close for 30 or 60 days, just pay them enough to cover all costs for those days replacing all their normal customers.

It wouldn't be cheap. But, halting and reducing large chunks of the economy isn't cheap. The current system has only the impacted businesses deal with the cost instead of the country as a whole.

In the case of WDW. If the temporary policy means we should close WDW for 60 days, then the government could pay for all the tickets for those 60 days. With the stipulation that WDW continues to pay all it's employees who would have worked, and it's other costs and suppliers.

A one for one customer demand switch. Make the normal customer illegal and pay it directly instead.

1. How was that gonna work...exactly?
2. Wall Street was buoyed by $7 trillion (with a T) of liquid in the last year and congress has given away a few of those with NO tracking...who says they haven’t been covered and then some?

It works by writing lots of checks. Spending lots of money upfront. In an ideal world, it works by not putting a lot of conditions on how those are distributed, send out an over abundance. That doesn't mean it's all free money for everyone. Tax it back at the end of the year, whatever was to much. There's lots of risks around moving to slow and not spending enough, people and businesses falling through the cracks, decisions made on outdated and no longer true conditions. Reconcile afterwards eliminates that problem.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out -

 

[danlb_2000]

Maybe not something like an organ transplant, because the medications they take will give that one away. But because I'm always getting new patients and their transfer records are sometimes either poor or non-existant, you'd be surprised what some patients would forget to tell us. Like previous hepatitis C infection, stroke, colon cancer, joint replacement, etc.

Which I am sure is why they give that warning.

 

[DisneyCane]

Don't forget payroll too.

It really does sound simple from a high level. When we take perfectly legal allowed normal businesses and force them to close for external policy reasons (like a pandemic) and we know they'll be allowed to reopen at some point. It would seem like the government that's imposing this external temporary restriction could include simply pay for the service it's not allowing to occur. There would be no market forces or competition, since policy makes it illegal for the service to be sold to anyone else.

We want a restaurant to close for 30 or 60 days, just pay them enough to cover all costs for those days replacing all their normal customers.

It wouldn't be cheap. But, halting and reducing large chunks of the economy isn't cheap. The current system has only the impacted businesses deal with the cost instead of the country as a whole.

In the case of WDW. If the temporary policy means we should close WDW for 60 days, then the government could pay for all the tickets for those 60 days. With the stipulation that WDW continues to pay all it's employees who would have worked, and it's other costs and suppliers.

A one for one customer demand switch. Make the normal customer illegal and pay it directly instead.



It works by writing lots of checks. Spending lots of money upfront. In an ideal world, it works by not putting a lot of conditions on how those are distributed, send out an over abundance. That doesn't mean it's all free money for everyone. Tax it back at the end of the year, whatever was to much. There's lots of risks around moving to slow and not spending enough, people and businesses falling through the cracks, decisions made on outdated and no longer true conditions. Reconcile afterwards eliminates that problem.

The problem with all of that is that money doesn't grow on trees. It is already (before the pandemic) impossible to tax enough to cover spending. At some point, spending trillions that don't exist will lead to MAJOR long term economic problems. The country won't go bankrupt (it can't since the debt is all in USD) but eventually the value of the dollar will fall precipitously and inflation will get out of control.