Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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DisneyDebRob

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
Exactly. This is the biggest piece of non-news since this all started. We’ve heard from the start that pre-existing conditions put you at much higher risk for serious infection and/or death. That is proved out with the stat that 94% of deaths from Covid have a co-morbidity. The narrative that only 6% of Covid deaths are really from Covid is a complete misunderstanding of the meaning of co-morbidity either from ignorance or more likely intentionally. Then you get idiots tweeting and re-tweeting it and away it goes. The fact that Twitter has removed the original Tweet which came from a conspiracy theory account for violating their policy is irrelevant. Once the tweet was re-tweeted the damage is done and people continue to believe it.
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“ If you tell a lie big enough, and keep repeating it..people will eventually come to believe it”.
It’s never been more true in our world today.
 
O

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
People are putting wayyyy to much stock in the whole 6% thing. I'm sure a lot of you have comorbidities that you aren't even aware of.

Example: Obesity is a commorbidity. It is possible to be classified as "obese" and only weigh 5 pounds over what your weight "should" be. A person dies of covid, and oh look, theyre also obese, theres the comorbidity.
 
DisneyDebRob

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
MickeyLuv'r

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
deeevo said:
It's not just because it's been politicized. The US economy didn't shut down from the plague, small pox, ebola and e.coli.
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Well...I suppose it depends on how you define shut down and US. By the time Europeans came to the New World, small pox had already been endemic for thousands of years. When Ramesses V's mummy was unwrapped in 1898, his corpse bore the scars of smallpox. He died around 1145BC. So we're talking about thousands of years of exposure before any Europeans ever set foot in the New World.

Smallpox arrived in the New World by by 1520. What date shall we use for the start of the US? Declaration of Independence was signed July 1776, the name "United States" was declared Sept 9, 1776, the revolution ended with the peace Treaty of Paris signed September 1783.

For simplicity, we'll use simply: 1776. By the time the US was created, smallpox had already been in the NW for over 250 years, though it didn't reach parts of what are now the lower 48 states until the 1770's.

If we look to the arrival of smallpox arrived in the Americas, smallpox did indeed do a pretty thorough job of shutting down the economy.

The Pre Columbian Taino population was at least 60,000. By 1548, the population of Hispaniola was below 500. So, uh, I think we can say it had a major impact on the local economy.

In 1520, Spanish forces landed at Veracruz, Mexico. They unwittingly brought an African slave infected with smallpox. By mid-October HALF the population of of the Aztec capital city of Tenochtitlan was dead, including the king and most of his senior advisors. By the time Cortes made his fail assault, dead bodies lay scattered all over the city. So, um, I think that = devastating the local economy.

In the 1760's .William Trent gave the world the gift of biological warfare! He knowingly and intentionally gifts smallpox infected blankets to Native peoples at a meeting at Fort Pitt. That spring and summer native populations in the area were hit by a smallpox outbreak, but it is unclear how successful the attempt was. Smallpox certainly had an impact on local economy, but didn't wipe out the local native population.

In the 1770's, smallpox was the first European disease to hit the native population of the Northwest region.. It killed approximately 11,000 Western Washington Indians, reducing the population form about 37,000 to 26,000. By 1850, the native population had been reduced to 9,000 people; though by then they had bee hit by multiple diseases like measles and the flu. (according to The Coming of the Sprit of Pestilence by Robert Boyd) when the Commander Vancouver explored the Puget sound area, he discovered numerous completely abandoned villages. I think it is fair to say, completely abandoned villages = significant impact on the local economy.

When was the last time the US had a major outbreak of the plague?

It was in 1924. It lasted 2 weeks and killed approximately 30 people. The city contained it via a rapid effort to exterminate rodents citywide, and a brutal quarantine boundary around the area of the outbreak. The area was patrolled by WWI vets who shot any dog, cat, chicken they saw. People who lived there weren't allowed to leave. People who died weren't immediately burned- no wake, no funeral. By 1925, some 2,500 structures were destroyed, and the entire "Macy Street District" neighborhood had been eradicated. Owners of these properties were not compensated. So, um, if you lived in that part of LA?

Ebola never really came to the US. We had a total of 2 cases that were contracted in the US.

And E.Coli isn't an infectious disease. Most people healthily co-exist with E.coli living in their gut to help them digest their food. A few strains are harmful, but they aren't generally spread person to person; they are usually contracted by eating contaminated foods or maybe like changing a diaper and not washing one's hands.
 
JoeCamel

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
MickeyLuv'r said:
Well...I suppose it depends on how you define shut down and US. By the time Europeans came to the New World, small pox had already been endemic for thousands of years. When Ramesses V's mummy was unwrapped in 1898, his corpse bore the scars of smallpox. He died around 1145BC. So we're talking about thousands of years of exposure before any Europeans ever set foot in the New World.

Smallpox arrived in the New World by by 1520. What date shall we use for the start of the US? Declaration of Independence was signed July 1776, the name "United States" was declared Sept 9, 1776, the revolution ended with the peace Treaty of Paris signed September 1783.

For simplicity, we'll use simply: 1776. By the time the US was created, smallpox had already been in the NW for over 250 years, though it didn't reach parts of what are now the lower 48 states until the 1770's.

If we look to the arrival of smallpox arrived in the Americas, smallpox did indeed do a pretty thorough job of shutting down the economy.

The Pre Columbian Taino population was at least 60,000. By 1548, the population of Hispaniola was below 500. So, uh, I think we can say it had a major impact on the local economy.

In 1520, Spanish forces landed at Veracruz, Mexico. They unwittingly brought an African slave infected with smallpox. By mid-October HALF the population of of the Aztec capital city of Tenochtitlan was dead, including the king and most of his senior advisors. By the time Cortes made his fail assault, dead bodies lay scattered all over the city. So, um, I think that = devastating the local economy.

In the 1760's .William Trent gave the world the gift of biological warfare! He knowingly and intentionally gifts smallpox infected blankets to Native peoples at a meeting at Fort Pitt. That spring and summer native populations in the area were hit by a smallpox outbreak, but it is unclear how successful the attempt was. Smallpox certainly had an impact on local economy, but didn't wipe out the local native population.

In the 1770's, smallpox was the first European disease to hit the native population of the Northwest region.. It killed approximately 11,000 Western Washington Indians, reducing the population form about 37,000 to 26,000. By 1850, the native population had been reduced to 9,000 people; though by then they had bee hit by multiple diseases like measles and the flu. (according to The Coming of the Sprit of Pestilence by Robert Boyd) when the Commander Vancouver explored the Puget sound area, he discovered numerous completely abandoned villages. I think it is fair to say, completely abandoned villages = significant impact on the local economy.

When was the last time the Us had a major outbreak of the plague?

It was in 1924. It lasted 2 weeks and killed approximately 30 people. The city contained it via a rapid effort to exterminate rodents citywide, and a brutal quarantine boundary around the area of the outbreak. The area was patrolled by WWI vets who shot any dog, cat, chicken they saw. People who lived there weren't allowed to leave. People who died weren't immediately burned- no wake, no funeral. By 1925, some 2,500 structures were destroyed, and the entire "Macy Street District" neighborhood had been eradicated. Owners of these properties were not compensated. So, um, if you lived in that part of LA?

Ebola never really came to the US. We had a total of 2 cases that were contracted in the US.

And E.Coli isn't an infectious disease. Most people healthily co-exist with E.coli living in their gut to help them digest their food. A few strains are harmful, but they aren't generally spread person to person; they are usually contracted by eating contaminated foods or maybe like changing a diaper and not washing ones' hands.
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Thanks for a walk back in time.
 
Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
oceanbreeze77 said:
People are putting wayyyy to much stock in the whole 6% thing. I'm sure a lot of you have comorbidities that you aren't even aware of.

Example: Obesity is a commorbidity. It is possible to be classified as "obese" and only weigh 5 pounds over what your weight "should" be. A person dies of covid, and oh look, theyre also obese, theres the comorbidity.
Click to expand...
Try to be/live as healthy as possible and you will lesson your chances of having serious complications when you get other illnesses. Pretty basic.
 
MickeyLuv'r

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
oceanbreeze77 said:
Example: Obesity is a commorbidity. It is possible to be classified as "obese" and only weigh 5 pounds over what your weight "should" be. A person dies of covid, and oh look, theyre also obese, theres the comorbidity.
Click to expand...

Um, not really.

Underweight is a BMI below 18.5.
Normal is a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9
Obesity is defined as a BMI above 30.

A person who is 5ft tall: normal = 91-115lbs. overweight = 119-138 Obese = 153+ (using the NIH BMI calculator)

So even for a person who is 5ft tall- on the short side - the difference between the upper end of normal and obese is a difference of 38 pounds.

The average height of a newborn is 18-22 inches. For an infant that is 24 inches tall- the upper range of normal is 20 lbs, with obese at 25 lbs.

So, technically you are correct, but 5 pounds difference in a NEWBORN is a big weight difference!

Charts do have some variability, as muscle weighs more than fat. A very muscular person can rank overweight, when really they aren't. so the BMI scale isn't a perfect guide, but saying the range is 5 pounds is rather misleading.

Then again, I think most folks already know all this.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Heppenheimer said:
"Co-morbidities" include extremely common conditions like asthma, high cholesterol, diabetes, hypertension, COPD, chronic kidney disease, coronary artery disease, chronic anemia and congestive heart failure. Millions of Americans walk around and live productive lives with two or more of these conditions. Unless your social group consists only of people in their 20s, many of the people in your life fall within this group.

This idea that we over-reacted because COVID only kills people with comorbidities might be the most noxious idea I've seen come out of this pandemic yet.
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... also some of the comorbidities listed in the CDC data are things that were likely caused by the virus. For example respiratory arrest, the patient stopped breathing, is probably not a pre-existing condition but instead something the virus caused.
 
T

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
To go back to that 6% number, most doctors are going to try and paint a full picture, that includes labeling appropriate Covid cases as “Acute Hypoxic Respiratory Failure” (which means a patient is exhibiting symptoms of Shortness Breath on oxygen) and “Septic Shock” (low blood pressure not responsive to IV fluids) two extremely common complications over severe Covid. You could be a healthy 24 year old and have no medical conditions prior to Covid but end up with “multiple diagnoses” on your death certificate.
 
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O

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
MickeyLuv'r said:
Um, not really.

Underweight is a BMI below 18.5.
Normal is a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9
Obesity is defined as a BMI above 30.

A person who is 5ft tall: normal = 91-115lbs. overweight = 119-138 Obese = 153+ (using the NIH BMI calculator)

So even for a person who is 5ft tall- on the short side - the difference between the upper end of normal and obese is a difference of 38 pounds.

The average height of a newborn is 18-22 inches. For an infant that is 24 inches tall- the upper range of normal is 20 lbs, with obese at 25 lbs.

So, technically you are correct, but 5 pounds difference in a NEWBORN is a big weight difference!

Charts do have some variability, as muscle weighs more than fat. A very muscular person can rank overweight, when really they aren't. so the BMI scale isn't a perfect guide, but saying the range is 5 pounds is rather misleading.

Then again, I think most folks already know all this.
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right, I just threw the 5 out to show how something could come up as a comorbidity.
 
J

Jwink

Well-Known Member
Andrew C said:
Try to be/live as healthy as possible and you will lesson your chances of having serious complications when you get other illnesses. Pretty basic.
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I disagree here. My friend works the front lines (first NYC and then Miami as a traveling covid nurse) and she said that while most fatalities were in older people with underlying conditions that it was not uncommon for a young 30 year old with no underlying conditions to have serious complications. Take that broadway guy Nick. He was in amazing shape! He passed away.
 
Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Jwink said:
I disagree here. My friend works the front lines (first NYC and then Miami as a traveling covid nurse) and she said that while most fatalities were in older people with underlying conditions that it was not uncommon for a young 30 year old with no underlying conditions to have serious complications. Take that broadway guy Nick. He was in amazing shape! He passed away.
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There are outliers. That doesn’t change what occurs the vast majority of the time. Stay healthy. The chances are on your side. Significantly.

we have had this conversation a bunch. No need to go through it again
 
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Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
MickeyLuv'r said:
Um, not really.

Underweight is a BMI below 18.5.
Normal is a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9
Obesity is defined as a BMI above 30.

A person who is 5ft tall: normal = 91-115lbs. overweight = 119-138 Obese = 153+ (using the NIH BMI calculator)

So even for a person who is 5ft tall- on the short side - the difference between the upper end of normal and obese is a difference of 38 pounds.

The average height of a newborn is 18-22 inches. For an infant that is 24 inches tall- the upper range of normal is 20 lbs, with obese at 25 lbs.

So, technically you are correct, but 5 pounds difference in a NEWBORN is a big weight difference!

Charts do have some variability, as muscle weighs more than fat. A very muscular person can rank overweight, when really they aren't. so the BMI scale isn't a perfect guide, but saying the range is 5 pounds is rather misleading.

Then again, I think most folks already know all this.
Click to expand...
BMI is the most worthless measurement! If we use BMI as a comorbidity, then 85 percent of people have a comorbidity!
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Disstevefan1 said:
BMI is the most worthless measurement! If we use BMI as a comorbidity, then 85 percent of people have a comorbidity!
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I think that is the whole point. Obesity is defined as a BMI over 30 and obesity would be listed as a comorbidity. Almost half of US adults also have high blood pressure, also a comorbidity. These are some of the reasons 94% of Covid deaths had a comorbidity listed and a lot had more than one.
 
Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
from the below article...

“Here is a statement from the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, Lynn Stutfin:
Since the start of the pandemic, older individuals and those with underlying conditions were considered the most vulnerable to this deadly virus and likely to have the most severe outcomes. This recently released CDC data reinforces that information. Michigan is sharing its case and death data with researchers, with appropriate provisions to protect privacy, to learn more about the relationship between comorbidities and COVID-19 among Michiganders.”
 
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