Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Horizons '83]

My daughter plays volleyball for a college in the SunBelt conference. And the Sunbelt is all in. All Fall Sports starts right after Labor day. I can't wait to see the mass exodus from high-profile players as they leave these conferences and go to schools that are actually playing. Lose a few Heisman players and maybe you will rethink your position.

Plus, I was one of these "I can't belive I have to wear a mask" people. I was at Epcot on Saturday and it wasn't that bad. The heat and stupid people are worse than wearing a mask. I bought a mask that fits my big face, that is the key. Find a mask that fits you. The Crowds were like 10 years ago in January/February. Nice to walk onto everything.

Even eating Canadian Cheddar Cheese Soup in 100 degree weather is not that bad.

Well yeah, you weren't wearing a mask when eating the soup, so of course its not that bad

 

[Andrew C]

Having isolated situations where some restrictions need to be reinstated to control a surge or outbreak is very reasonable. The talking point here is always the black and white thinking of we either open everything or we are in lockdown and we’re never going in lockdown again. In the other places you listed they identified issues resulting in spread like travel to certain parts of Spain and made people quarantine when doing that. It’s a far cry from a full lockdown or even much less than the less restrictive stay at home orders we had here. So if the point is we can’t ever add back any restrictions than I disagree with that completely. Part of “living with the virus” is accepting the rise and fall of cases. In good times when they are down you open as much as is safe, when the trend turns you quickly ratchet down. That was supposed to be our plan. That was talked about at nauseam here. Instead what we got was open, ignore the consequences, deny there’s a problem until it’s too late to contain and then settle for “there’s no way to stop this virus so let’s just let it rip”.

As far as a plan B that is something that will be worked out if/when needed. Plan A is to contain the virus, get as much of the economy open as possible, keep as many people safe as possible and wait for a vaccine. We know some activities just aren’t possible and some businesses can’t be open or be open with any meaningful demand. That’s part of the process. If we get to the point where there’s no hope for a vaccine we then have to see what the state of the virus is to form a plan B. What kinds of treatments have been developed, what additional knowledge do we have and ultimately what will the new normal look like. Right now this “new normal” we talk about is a temporary normal. Without a vaccine we will need to come to terms with a true new normal. I don’t think it’s worth anyone’s time to plan that out today because there’s too many variables to contend with. I wholeheartedly reject the idea that there’s a chance a vaccine won’t work so we should just jump to plan B now. That’s just an excuse people use when they don’t want to be restricted. A little bit of self control isn’t too much to ask. Let the process play out and if we do need to switch to plan B then we’ll figure it out then, but plan B is most likely an ugly situation filled with sickness, death and years of economic depression. I pray thats not where we end up.

Yeah. I appreciate all this but i don’t think you’re understanding me. I’m not questioning restrictions in the present. I’m questioning that there is no option even being discussed if the vaccine doesn’t work out. All the eggs are in the vaccine basket with no other viable option being considered for the long term. It should definitely be discussed now. Not planning for this is a horrible idea. Plan B should be ready to go if the vaccine doesn’t come.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yeah. I appreciate all this but i don’t think you’re understanding me. I’m not questioning restrictions in the present. I’m questioning that there is no option even being discussed if the vaccine doesn’t work out. All the eggs are in the vaccine basket with no other viable option being considered for the long term. It should definitely be discussed now. Not planning for this is a horrible idea. Plan B should be ready to go if the vaccine doesn’t come. It’s nuts to not plan ahead for this.

Then you plan for better treatment options and continue doing what is being done. We just have to learn to adapt to how life is.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yeah. I appreciate all this but i don’t think you’re understanding me. I’m not questioning restrictions in the present. I’m questioning that there is no option even being discussed if the vaccine doesn’t work out. All the eggs are in the vaccine basket with no other viable option being considered for the long term. It should definitely be discussed now. Not planning for this is a horrible idea. Plan B should be ready to go if the vaccine doesn’t come. It’s nuts to not plan ahead for this.

Who says there’s no plan? Many researchers are still actively pursuing treatments for the virus. Research continues on understanding how it works, who it attacks, what are the high risk groups. It’s not like everyone has just stopped and is waiting to see if there’s a vaccine. Even with a vaccine the virus won’t likely be completely gone so all that research is very important either way. As far as current government activity there’s nothing to change now so nothing to talk about.

 

[milordsloth]

No one has the answers right now. I do know that what most of the US is doing isn't the answer but not sure locking down is either. So far what we have been doing seems to be working especially since they have created an app for contact tracing. Maybe that is the answer is keep social distancing, wearing masks and make an app for contact tracing.

How does Canada’s coronavirus tracing app work? | Globalnews.ca

Mark Crowley says the app basically functions using Bluetooth connections and random codes which are generated and stored in your phone.

globalnews.ca

An app like this would help a bit with contact tracing but it still has issues. First issue with this app in particular is that it requires a newer phone to be able to install. From the linked article, “This means many Canadians with older or un-upgraded phones, estimated at around 11 per cent of the mobile phones in the country, will not be capable of running the app.” The second issue with the app is that it relies on people to voluntarily download and install. Maybe Canadians are more willing to install a tracking app like this, but I don't see it being very successful across the US if it is voluntary. Unless nearly everyone in an area has this app and is using it, then it really doesn't help anything.

 

[Jrb1979]

An app like this would help a bit with contact tracing but it still has issues. First issue with this app in particular is that it requires a newer phone to be able to install. From the linked article, “This means many Canadians with older or un-upgraded phones, estimated at around 11 per cent of the mobile phones in the country, will not be capable of running the app.” The second issue with the app is that it relies on people to voluntarily download and install. Maybe Canadians are more willing to install a tracking app like this, but I don't see it being very successful across the US if it is voluntary. Unless nearly everyone in an area has this app and is using it, then it really doesn't help anything.

Most Canadians have downloaded it. Not sure if this has been posted before but this article really shows the difference between Canada and the US

Column: I'm in Canada, where the COVID police are watching

If you wondered why Canada is doing so much better on COVID-19 than the United States — here’s one reason: They follow the rules. Oh, and the police are watching.

www.latimes.com

 

[Andrew C]

It’s not like everyone has just stopped and is waiting to see if there’s a vaccine

I’m afraid in many cases, this is exactly what has occurred. Maybe the only hope is treatments are still being worked on. But I think you’re fooling yourself if you think leaders and experts throughout the world have any plan past what they currently are doing. They have zero clue what to do long term. They can’t even do well enough short term.

 

[GoofGoof]

My daughter plays volleyball for a college in the SunBelt conference. And the Sunbelt is all in. All Fall Sports starts right after Labor day. I can't wait to see the mass exodus from high-profile players as they leave these conferences and go to schools that are actually playing. Lose a few Heisman players and maybe you will rethink your position.

Plus, I was one of these "I can't belive I have to wear a mask" people. I was at Epcot on Saturday and it wasn't that bad. The heat and stupid people are worse than wearing a mask. I bought a mask that fits my big face, that is the key. Find a mask that fits you. The Crowds were like 10 years ago in January/February. Nice to walk onto everything.

Even eating Canadian Cheddar Cheese Soup in 100 degree weather is not that bad.

In smaller sports there may be some who leave over this, but it’s not likely a major recruit playing for a power 5 conference football program is going to leave and give up their scholarship to play a season at a less prestigious school. Some of the highest profile players who were locks to go in the NFL draft were opting out of the season even before some schools cancelled. So I’m not sure the high profile players will be an issue. As far as sports starting in the fall...they can start but look at MLB and see how difficult it is to keep any level of continuity. There will be positives and that will result in teams getting shut down for weeks at a time. It’s not just a matter of having the will to play it’s the logistics around Covid that are the nightmare.

 

[lazyboy97o]

An app like this would help a bit with contact tracing but it still has issues. First issue with this app in particular is that it requires a newer phone to be able to install. From the linked article, “This means many Canadians with older or un-upgraded phones, estimated at around 11 per cent of the mobile phones in the country, will not be capable of running the app.”

The COVID tracking is available to devices going back five years. An iPhone 6s is hardly a "newer" phone.

 

[milordsloth]

Most Canadians have downloaded it. Not sure if this has been posted before but this article really shows the difference between Canada and the US

Column: I'm in Canada, where the COVID police are watching

If you wondered why Canada is doing so much better on COVID-19 than the United States — here’s one reason: They follow the rules. Oh, and the police are watching.

www.latimes.com

All that stuck out to me in that article was that Canada has a smaller population than California. Props to our neighbors up north for handling it well in their own way, but as has been said many times here there are too many huge differences in the 2 countries (culture/population/trust in government) for a direct comparison.

 

[GoofGoof]

I’m afraid in many cases, this is exactly what has occurred. Maybe the only hope is treatments are still being worked on. But I think you’re fooling yourself if you think leaders and experts throughout the world have any plan past on what they currently are doing. They have zero clue what to do long term. They can’t even do well enough short term.

You are just talking about politics which quite frankly I could care less about. The people that matter now are the scientists and infectious disease experts who are studying the virus. They are plowing forward full speed. Enormous money is also being pumped into research and not just for the vaccine. New tests that are quicker, more accurate and cheaper are in development. There are dozens of companies in the US alone working on various projects in addition to the vaccine research. The results of all that research will ultimately decide how we proceed if a vaccine never comes through. Just as a quick example, maybe it becomes so cheap and easy to do a non-invasive test at home that everyone has home test kits And the “new normal” is everyone rolls out of bed and does a Covid test before heading to school or work. Maybe the tracing app becomes mainstream without a vaccine. Who knows what else could come up. The point is you can’t have a conversation today about the tracing app or daily testing because people will stick their fingers in their ears and cry rights violations. At the end of the day a ”new normal” may involve an evolution of opinion on things that today seem almost unthinkable. If you don’t believe it could happen think back to February...how many people believed most Americans would accept wearing masks in public?

 

[Nubs70]

The COVID tracking is available to devices going back five years. An iPhone 6s is hardly a "newer" phone.

If you have Apple or Android, part of the tracing program has pushed onto your phone. Only a local HHS app needs to be installed.

 

[Andrew C]

You are just talking about politics which quite frankly I could care less about. The people that matter now are the scientists and infectious disease experts who are studying the virus. They are plowing forward full speed. Enormous money is also being pumped into research and not just for the vaccine. New tests that are quicker, more accurate and cheaper are in development. There are dozens of companies in the US alone working on various projects in addition to the vaccine research. The results of all that research will ultimately decide how we proceed if a vaccine never comes through. Just as a quick example, maybe it becomes so cheap and easy to do a non-invasive test at home that everyone has home test kits And the “new normal” is everyone rolls out of bed and does a Covid test before heading to school or work. Maybe the tracing app becomes mainstream without a vaccine. Who knows what else could come up. The point is you can’t have a conversation today about the tracing app or daily testing because people will stick their fingers in their ears and cry rights violations. At the end of the day a ”new normal” may involve an evolution of opinion on things that today seem almost unthinkable. If you don’t believe it could happen think back to February...how many people believed most Americans would accept wearing masks in public?

Smh. You’re not getting it. I give up. Have a good day.

 

[ABQ]

Been looking at this from day 1. I always like to highlight that it says that the deaths are residents with confirmed COVID-19 nothing about deaths were directly related to COVID-19.

View attachment 490359

Had Covid not existed, they would still be alive. I think that is a better way of looking at it.

Are you sure about that? Unless I'm misunderstanding the line of thinking. I think of the case of one guy in Colorado who died with covid19, but the medical examiner went on to say he died of alcohol poisoning with a blood alcohol measurement of .55, twice the lethal limit. Pretty sure with or without covid, he'd likely not be alive today.

 

[Touchdown]

Are you sure about that? Unless I'm misunderstanding the line of thinking. I think of the case of one guy in Colorado who died with covid19, but the medical examiner went on to say he died of alcohol poisoning with a blood alcohol measurement of .55, twice the lethal limit. Pretty sure with or without covid, he'd likely not be alive today.

Not to disagree with you but, there are some “exceptional” alcoholics who can still function in that range, not many but they exist...

 

[Heppenheimer]

Someone should take this.
View attachment 490387

There's a fun memory from my past!

 

[Andrew C]

There's a fun memory from my past!

I have never done it. Hah.

 

[Touchdown]

Florida and Arizona: Two our of the 3 states with a triple digit mortality rate today, #2 and 3 on total Covid cases per capita in the country. So perfect, can’t wait to visit either state soon

 

[GoofGoof]

Smh. You’re not getting it. I give up. Have a good day.

I thought your point was that there were no plans today for what will happen if a vaccine doesn’t work. I gave a handful of examples of what the “new normal“ could look like and what things are being done today that will lay the groundwork for that. Without a vaccine in the long run we will need much more and much better testing - that’s being worked on today. We will need a better way to do contact tracing to immediately identify and isolate anyone that has come in contact with an infected person - that’s being worked on today with the app and other technology as a possibility. If tracing with technology isn’t feasible than we need to ramp up and hire many more people to do it the old fashioned way. We will need both more hospitals and better treatments. Right now we aren’t necessarily investing in more permanent hospitals. I would say that becomes a federal government project if plan B becomes reality. The federal government is doing a poor job with stockpiling supplies and equipment which could be used for a plan B but also just exist as a contingent for any future virus outbreak.

Outside of those preparations there are bigger issues like education where a larger plan is needed. It’s conceivable that remote learning just becomes the new norm all over for a while. If so there needs to be a pretty big investment in technology especially in places that haven’t ramped up today. I think it’s pretty hard to know today which way things like that will go. For example if we ramp up testing and tracing then maybe a physical school return becomes possible. So do school districts invest today in the technology assuming a vaccine won’t happen and remote learning will be the new norm? Tough call.

 

[lisa12000]

Quite interesting the talk of Europe on here. We, like the rest of Europe, are seeing rises in our figures (uk) with 1,009 today. However our positivity rate is still well below 1%. We are reporting around 150,000 processed tests per day and are sending out around 130,000 home test kits per day.

as for restrictions - our pubs and cafes etc are open, as is all retail and tourist attractions. What isn’t open: nightclubs, theatres, bowling alleys!, skating rings, and close contact beauty services. We were also due to have pilots for getting fans back into grounds but that was postponed for a couple of weeks. - the north west of England is an issue for example out of 1000 positives today 412 of them were from areas of concern. These areas have added restrictions which consist of not being able to meet family inside the house or in gardens - nothing else is restricted at all in those areas.

There is absolutely no appetite in the country for another lockdown and I just can’t see any type of compliance if they try it now - in fact there is a growing anger at the incompetence of our figures. For example, today we wiped off over 5000 fatalities as we were counting anyone who had a positive test and recovered and then any time in the future died as a Covid death. We originally said we had over 100 all setting deaths yesterday - this was revised down to 11! On 31st July we had 0 deaths!

the biggest restrictions are on travel with our haphazard quarantine system where you can be in Spain without having to quarantine when you get back and then they decide to impose a quarantine with no notice whatsoever - it’s killing our travel industry!

What every single European country is finding is that although cases are going up hospitalisations and deaths aren’t - we have 583 people in hospital in England with about 60 needing further support - that is still going down despite cases rising for over a month now - make of that what you will