Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Andrew C]

Anyone that comes into our country has to quarantine for 14 days. I don't see that ending any time soon.

That’s probably a good tactic right now. But what happens if a vaccine doesn’t come at the beginning of 2021? Then what? How long can this measure and others be in place? A few more months? A year? Longer?

 

[Jenny72]

I agree that we're stuck with "just living with" the virus, and not fully containing it. But what does that mean? Some people interpret that as opening bars and travel/etc. and just letting people get it. There are other ways to live with it, for instance by minimizing spread as much as possible. Both options suck. This virus sucks. Since the country can't agree on which sucky option to choose, we're going to be stuck in this limbo for the foreseeable future. That also sucks.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree that we're stuck with "just living with" the virus, and not fully containing it. But what does that mean? Some people interpret that as opening bars and travel/etc. and just letting people get it. There are other ways to live with it, for instance by minimizing spread as much as possible. Both options suck. This virus sucks. Since the country can't agree on which sucky option to choose, we're going to be stuck in this limbo for the foreseeable future. That also sucks.

I’m pretty sure the vast majority of people supporting the just live with it mantra are in favor of opening bars and anything else, no masks, no restrictions at all. Just let it rip. There’s no point in inconveniencing anyone if It does no good.

 

[Andrew C]

What has been Europe’s reaction when cases started to rise again? Start locking things down. That’s the reaction because there is nothing else they can do. It’s the only option outside of just living with it and going on with life with masks, etc. We better hope a vaccine actually comes. If not, then what?

 

[BrianLo]

For now. I imagine you will follow Europe as your timetable is behind them. Could be wrong though. You don’t have the type of travel between countries that Europe does.

I was worried it was starting to flare a few weeks ago, but it seems to be more circulating but not exactly taking major hold. I don't know why that is the case - apart from the more gradual opening and social distancing compliance?

It's odd because BC is really not a unpopulated province (5 million). It has the core of its population on the main land in fairly dense clusters. But it really hasn't had a major outbreak at all. There wasn't even really a first wave.

It definitely feels weird being somewhere where there is actually next to no COVID circulating. The island has a grand total of 7 or 8 active cases.

 

[BrianLo]

With the interstate system, a comparable east-west distance in the US takes about 1/4 of the time to drive, and doesn't have anything like the long stretches of barely populated territory along Lake Superior's northern shore.

I'm not really sure what you mean. The driving time is roughly comparable to go from Vancouver to Thunder Bay as it would be to make the similar West-East travel in the US. Highway 1 is fairly straight across although is undergoing four-laning in BC in some of the mountainous regions.

The confusing part I think for most people is that Ontario goes much further South than you realize. It shares the same latitude with Northern California. The drive South into Ontario (to go to Toronto and Niagara Falls) and the Drive back North again to get up to Halifax is the issue that adds the time. Not really the highway system to begin with.


However, the greater point that Canadian population is clustered still applies. There is much less road traffic due to Ontario's population centres Southern Geography. Therefore the majority of COVID spread outside of Canada's major corridors (BC/Alberta or Windsor-Quebec City) would be from flights, not driving.

 

[GoofGoof]

What has been Europe’s reaction when cases started to rise again? Start locking things down. That’s the reaction because there is nothing else they can do. It’s the only option outside of just living with it and going on with life with masks, etc. We better hope a vaccine actually comes. If not, then what?

I wouldn’t exactly say that Europe is in lockdown. The ”outbreak“ in Germany saw 1,200 cases in a day.....in the whole country....which has a population 4 times the size of FL. So that would be the equivalent of 300 daily cases in FL. France‘s “outbreak“ had 2,500 new daily cases (3X the size of FL) so the equivalent of just over 800 daily cases. Spain had 1,418 new cases (population more than double FL) so the equivalent of 700 daily cases in FL. As a result of these outbreaks France and Germany have implemented travel restrictions going to/from Spain. People are not being asked to stay at home. Businesses are not shuttered. They have tightened up mask requirements and some travel restrictions but I’d hardly say they are starting to lock down again. (stats from the BBC article attached below).

Coronavirus in Europe: Infections surge in France, Germany and Spain

Germany and Greece record their highest daily cases, while Spain and France reach a "tipping point".

www.bbc.com

Here’s a graph of cases (EU is larger than US by population by about 1/3)

So yes, there’s an uptick in Europe and that’s understandable. It’s going to happen over time, but it’s not a sharp spike and not exactly dramatic actions being taken to curb it.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I'm not really sure what you mean. The driving time is roughly comparable to go from Vancouver to Thunder Bay as it would be to make the similar West-East travel in the US. Highway 1 is fairly straight across although is undergoing four-laning in BC in some of the mountainous regions.

The confusing part I think for most people is that Ontario goes much further South than you realize. It shares the same latitude with Northern California. The drive South into Ontario (to go to Toronto and Niagara Falls) and the Drive back North again to get up to Halifax is the issue that adds the time. Not really the highway system to begin with.


However, the greater point that Canadian population is clustered still applies. There is much less road traffic due to Ontario's population centres Southern Geography. Therefore the majority of COVID spread outside of Canada's major corridors (BC/Alberta or Windsor-Quebec City) would be from flights, not driving.

For our proposed trip, it would have started just north of Lake Erie in southern Ontario, then would have veered slightly northeast around Georgian Bay, then northwest along the northern shore and further northwest around Lake Superior. The freeway system ends about a quarter of the way around Georgian Bay, then it's nothing but secondary roads for a very long, long distance (unless you head further north out of the way towards Sudbury). The lack of freeways isn't the only reason the drive would take so long, as you mentioned, because the east-west route veers so far north around the Lake Huron-Lake Superior water system.

But unless the driving apps were all wrong, I stand by my contention that it would have taken several days to even arrive in Manitoba. By the time I reached this point in mapping out the proposed trip, we had scrapped the idea, and I didn't research any further.

 

[Jrb1979]

For our proposed trip, it would have started just north of Lake Erie, then would have veered slightly northeast around Georgian Bay, then northwest along the northern shore and further northwest around Lake Superior. The freeway system ends about a quarter of the way around Georgian Bay, then it's nothing but secondary roads for a very long, long distance (unless you head further north out of the way towards Sudbury). The lack of freeways isn't the only reason the drive would take so long, as you mentioned, because the east-west route veers so far north around the Lake Huron-Lake Superior water system.

But unless the driving apps were all wrong, I stand by my contention that it would have taken several days to even arrive in Manitoba. By the time I reached this point in mapping out the proposed trip, we had scrapped the idea, and I didn't research any further.

I have no idea which way you were going but from my home in Niagara its 23 hours to drive to Manitoba. It can be done in 2 days easily. I have driven from my home to Alberta a few times and it takes 4 days to do

 

[GoofGoof]

We ended up scrapping that idea and flying to Disneyland and Hawaii instead.

I like hockey and snow and stuff...but give me Disneyland and Hawaii any day of the week That’s looking more and more like my 2022 trip now that my kids are old enough to make the flight to Hawaii. 2021 will (God and big pharma willing) be my rescheduled WDW summer trip and at least one more trip somewhere else beachy. Gotta make up for lost time this year .

 

[BrianLo]

For our proposed trip, it would have started just north of Lake Erie in southern Ontario, then would have veered slightly northeast around Georgian Bay, then northwest along the northern shore and further northwest around Lake Superior. The freeway system ends about a quarter of the way around Georgian Bay, then it's nothing but secondary roads for a very long, long distance (unless you head further north out of the way towards Sudbury). The lack of freeways isn't the only reason the drive would take so long, as you mentioned, because the east-west route veers so far north around the Lake Huron-Lake Superior water system.

But unless the driving apps were all wrong, I stand by my contention that it would have taken several days to even arrive in Manitoba. By the time I reached this point in mapping out the proposed trip, we had scrapped the idea, and I didn't research any further.

Definitely. The problem is mostly the great lakes and the geography causing the strange routing rather than a lack of highway. You were driving way more out of your way than making a straight shot across the middle of the US.

 

[Andrew C]

I wouldn’t exactly say that Europe is in lockdown. The ”outbreak“ in Germany saw 1,200 cases in a day.....in the whole country....which has a population 4 times the size of FL. So that would be the equivalent of 300 daily cases in FL. France‘s “outbreak“ had 2,500 new daily cases (3X the size of FL) so the equivalent of just over 800 daily cases. Spain had 1,418 new cases (population more than double FL) so the equivalent of 700 daily cases in FL. As a result of these outbreaks France and Germany have implemented travel restrictions going to/from Spain. People are not being asked to stay at home. Businesses are not shuttered. They have tightened up mask requirements and some travel restrictions but I’d hardly say they are starting to lock down again. (stats from the BBC article attached below).

Coronavirus in Europe: Infections surge in France, Germany and Spain

Germany and Greece record their highest daily cases, while Spain and France reach a "tipping point".

www.bbc.com

Here’s a graph of cases (EU is larger than US by population by about 1/3)
View attachment 490382
So yes, there’s an uptick in Europe and that’s understandable. It’s going to happen over time, but it’s not a sharp spike and not exactly dramatic actions being taken to curb it.

Have you seen some of the actions that local authorities in certain areas have taken? They have no other options. Limit travel, limit groups, limit business. Keep this city locked down. Even New Zealand put some restrictions back in place when they had one family test positive. Seems any contact tracing isn’t trusted enough without the reintroduction of some restrictions. Sure, people can argue this is all fine and reasonable now. I’m not arguing one way or another. I’m only asking what will happen if a vaccine is actually not around the corner? How long can this be sustained throughout the world? No one talks about a plan B.

 

[Jrb1979]

Have you seen some of the actions that local authorities in certain areas have taken? They have no other options. Limit travel, limit groups, limit business. Keep this city locked down. Even New Zealand put some restrictions back in place when they had one family test positive. Seems any contact tracing isn’t trusted enough without the reintroduction of some restrictions. Sure, people can argue this is all fine and reasonable now. I’m not arguing one way or another. I’m only asking what will happen if a vaccine is actually not around the corner? How long can this be sustained throughout the world?

No one has the answers right now. I do know that what most of the US is doing isn't the answer but not sure locking down is either. So far what we have been doing seems to be working especially since they have created an app for contact tracing. Maybe that is the answer is keep social distancing, wearing masks and make an app for contact tracing.

How does Canada’s coronavirus tracing app work? | Globalnews.ca

Mark Crowley says the app basically functions using Bluetooth connections and random codes which are generated and stored in your phone.

globalnews.ca

 

[Heppenheimer]

I have no idea which way you were going but from my home in Niagara its 23 hours to drive to Manitoba. It can be done in 2 days easily. I have driven from my home to Alberta a few times and it takes 4 days to do

We were planning on taking our dogs, and wanted to limit our driving days to no longer than 7 hours. Some of the days would have needed to be even shorter because there isn't exactly an abundance of dog-friendly hotels (or hotels in general) along the way.

Sounds like we used to be almost neighbors. I lived across the river in Lewiston, but most of my social life was on the Canadian side of the border.

 

[The_Jobu]

For our proposed trip, it would have started just north of Lake Erie in southern Ontario, then would have veered slightly northeast around Georgian Bay, then northwest along the northern shore and further northwest around Lake Superior. The freeway system ends about a quarter of the way around Georgian Bay, then it's nothing but secondary roads for a very long, long distance (unless you head further north out of the way towards Sudbury). The lack of freeways isn't the only reason the drive would take so long, as you mentioned, because the east-west route veers so far north around the Lake Huron-Lake Superior water system.

But unless the driving apps were all wrong, I stand by my contention that it would have taken several days to even arrive in Manitoba. By the time I reached this point in mapping out the proposed trip, we had scrapped the idea, and I didn't research any further.

I have no idea which way you were going but from my home in Niagara its 23 hours to drive to Manitoba. It can be done in 2 days easily. I have driven from my home to Alberta a few times and it takes 4 days to do

There's only one way to settle this. Gentlemen, I propose:

The First Annual Race to Manitoba!

Approved forms of transport are cars, big wheels, hot air balloons, or skidoo.

 

[Andrew C]

There's only one way to settle this. Gentlemen, I propose:

The First Annual Race to Manitoba!

Approved forms of transport are cars, big wheels, hot air balloons, or skidoo.

Someone should take this.

 

[Polkadotdress]

Or.

No one has the answers right now. I do know that what most of the US is doing isn't the answer but not sure locking down is either. So far what we have been doing seems to be working especially since they have created an app for contact tracing. Maybe that is the answer is keep social distancing, wearing masks and make an app for contact tracing.

How does Canada’s coronavirus tracing app work? | Globalnews.ca

Mark Crowley says the app basically functions using Bluetooth connections and random codes which are generated and stored in your phone.

globalnews.ca

Or, perhaps consider* the TOTALLY OPPOSITE APPROACH, like this sheriff is mandating: no masks allowed at all.

Florida sheriff forbids staff, visitors from wearing masks

Florida sheriff forbids staff, visitors from wearing masks

abcnews.go.com

*I say that in jest, as no other community/city/state/company should consider this at all. But, that's Flori-duh for you.

 

[GoofGoof]

Have you seen some of the actions that local authorities in certain areas have taken? They have no other options. Limit travel, limit groups, limit business. Keep this city locked down. Even New Zealand put some restrictions back in place when they had one family test positive. Seems any contact tracing isn’t trusted enough without the reintroduction of some restrictions. Sure, people can argue this is all fine and reasonable now. I’m not arguing one way or another. I’m only asking what will happen if a vaccine is actually not around the corner? How long can this be sustained throughout the world? No one talks about a plan B.

Having isolated situations where some restrictions need to be reinstated to control a surge or outbreak is very reasonable. The talking point here is always the black and white thinking of we either open everything or we are in lockdown and we’re never going in lockdown again. In the other places you listed they identified issues resulting in spread like travel to certain parts of Spain and made people quarantine when doing that. It’s a far cry from a full lockdown or even much less than the less restrictive stay at home orders we had here. So if the point is we can’t ever add back any restrictions than I disagree with that completely. Part of “living with the virus” is accepting the rise and fall of cases. In good times when they are down you open as much as is safe, when the trend turns you quickly ratchet down. That was supposed to be our plan. That was talked about at nauseam here. Instead what we got was open, ignore the consequences, deny there’s a problem until it’s too late to contain and then settle for “there’s no way to stop this virus so let’s just let it rip”.

As far as a plan B that is something that will be worked out if/when needed. Plan A is to contain the virus, get as much of the economy open as possible, keep as many people safe as possible and wait for a vaccine. We know some activities just aren’t possible and some businesses can’t be open or be open with any meaningful demand. That’s part of the process. If we get to the point where there’s no hope for a vaccine we then have to see what the state of the virus is to form a plan B. What kinds of treatments have been developed, what additional knowledge do we have and ultimately what will the new normal look like. Right now this “new normal” we talk about is a temporary normal. Without a vaccine we will need to come to terms with a true new normal. I don’t think it’s worth anyone’s time to plan that out today because there’s too many variables to contend with. I wholeheartedly reject the idea that there’s a chance a vaccine won’t work so we should just jump to plan B now. That’s just an excuse people use when they don’t want to be restricted. A little bit of self control isn’t too much to ask. Let the process play out and if we do need to switch to plan B then we’ll figure it out then, but plan B is most likely an ugly situation filled with sickness, death and years of economic depression. I pray thats not where we end up.

 

[Horizons '83]

Been looking at this from day 1. I always like to highlight that it says that the deaths are residents with confirmed COVID-19 nothing about deaths were directly related to COVID-19.

View attachment 490359

Had Covid not existed, they would still be alive. I think that is a better way of looking at it.

 

[Angelo721]

My daughter plays volleyball for a college in the SunBelt conference. And the Sunbelt is all in. All Fall Sports starts right after Labor day. I can't wait to see the mass exodus from high-profile players as they leave these conferences and go to schools that are actually playing. Lose a few Heisman players and maybe you will rethink your position.

Plus, I was one of these "I can't belive I have to wear a mask" people. I was at Epcot on Saturday and it wasn't that bad. The heat and stupid people are worse than wearing a mask. I bought a mask that fits my big face, that is the key. Find a mask that fits you. The Crowds were like 10 years ago in January/February. Nice to walk onto everything.

Even eating Canadian Cheddar Cheese Soup in 100 degree weather is not that bad.